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Kalvan
Here is my Idea for NACAA Division 1: (Outside Hockey)

&America East:

SUNY Geneso "Knights"
SUNY A&T Alfred "Saxons"
Rochester "Engineers"
Maine "Black Bears"
Southern Maine "Huskies"
Vermont "Catamounts"
Vermont College "Mountaineers"
New Hampshire "Wildcats"
New Hampshire-Nashua "Tigers"
Penn State "Nittany Lions"
Indiana (Pennsylvania) "Indians"

&Atlantic 12

Newfoundland "Terriers"
New Brunswick "Squirrels"
Halifax "Highlanders"
Prince Edward Island "Kingsmen"
Saint Fransis Xavier (Nova Scotia) "X Men" [I'm not making this up!]
Massachusetts "Minutemen"
Massachusetts-Lowell "River Hawks"
Rhode Island "Rams"
Rhode Island College "Captains"
Temple "Owls"
St. Bonnaventure "Bonnies"

#Atlantic Coast:

North Carolina "Tarheels"
North Carolina State "Wolfpack"
North Carolina-Charlotte "Forty-Niners"
Clemson "Tigers"
Furman "Paladins"
Virginia "Caviliers"
Virginia Tech "Hokies"
Virginia Commonwealth "Rams"
Georgia Tech "Yellow Jackets"
Georgia State "Panthers"
Florida-Orlando (Currently Central Florida) "Golden Knights of Pegasus"
Florida-Tampa Bay (Currently South Florida) "Bulls"

&Atlantic East

Georgetown "Hoyas"
St. Johns (NY) "Red Storm"
St. Joseph (NY) "Redhawks"
St. Joseph (PA) "Saints"
Marquette "Golden Eagles"
Providence "Friars"
Seaton Hall "Pirates"
Villanova "Wildcats"
Ionia "Gaels"
St. Mary's (Nova Scotia) "Huskies"
Notre Dame (Maryland) "Gators"
Loyola (Maryland) "Grayhounds"

#Big East

Boston College "Eagles"
Connecticut "Huskies"
Syracuse "Orangemen"
Rutgers "Scarlet Knights"
SUNY Buffalo "Bulls"
SUNY Stony Brook "Seawolves"
Pittsburgh "Panthers"
Maryland "Terrapins"
Delaware "Blue Hens"
West Virginia "Mountaineers"
Marshall "Thundering Herd"
Cincinatti "Bearcats"

#Colonial

William And Mary "Tribe"
Washington And Lee "Generals"
North Carolina-Willmington "Seahawks"
North Carolina-Greesboro "Spartans"
James Madison "Dukes"
Liberty "Flames"
Bob Jones "Crusaders"
Confederate Marine Corps (Currently Citadel) "Bulldogs"
Radford "Highlanders"
College of Charleston (South Carolina) "Cougars"
Charleston Southern "Buccaneers"
Florida-Jacksonville (Currently North Florida) "Ospreys"

#Conference CAS

East Carolina "Pirates"
Confederate Air Force (Formerly Tennessee-Tullahoma) "Pilots"
Confederate Army (Formerly VMI) "Keydets"
Confederate Navy (West Memphis, Arkansas) "Catfish"
Confederate Coast Guard (Formerly Christopher Newport) "Captains"
Memphis "Tigers"
Rice "Owls"
Southern Miss "Golden Eagles"
New Orleans "Privateers"
Alabama-Birmingham "Blazers"
Arkansas-Little Rock "Trojans"
Louisiana-Lafayette "Ragin' Cajuns"

#Great Plains

Iowa "Hawkeyes"
Iowa State "Cyclones"
Nebraska "Cornhuskers"
Nebraska-Omaha "Mavericks"
Kansas "Jayhawks"
Kansas State "Wildcats"
South Dakota "Coyotes"
South Dakota State "Jackrabbits"
North Dakota "Roughriders"
North Dakota State "Bison"
Manitoba-Saskatchewan "Bison"
West Ontario "Mustangs"

Horizon League

Bradley "Bears"
Butler "Bulldogs"
Detroit-Mercy "Titans"
Loyola (Chicago) "Ramblers"
Notre Dame "Fighting Tuatha"
Dayton "Flyers"
Drake "Bulldogs"
Marian "Knights"
St. John's (Minnesota) "Johnnies"

&Ivy League

Brown "Bears"
Carnegie-Mellon "Tartans"
Columbia "Lions"
Cornell "Big Red"
Dartmouth "Big Green"
Harvard "Crimson"
Johns Hopkins "Jayhawks"
MIT&T "Beavers"
Monnmouth "Hawks"
Pennsylvania "Quakers"
Princeton "Tigers"
Yale "Bulldogs"

#Lakeside Conference

Indiana "Hoosiers"
Purdue "Boillermakers"
IUPUI "Jaguars"
Michigan "Wolverines"
Michigan State "Spartans"
Wayne State "Warriors"
Wisconsin "Badgers"
Wisconsin-Milwaukee "Panthers"
Minnesota "Golden Gophers"
Minnesota-Duluth "Eagles"
York "Lions"
Toronto "Varsity Blue"


#Magnolia League

Duke "Blue Devils"
Wake Forest "Demon Deacons"
Vanderbilt "Commodores"
Stetson "Hatters"
Sewanee "Tigers"
Birmingham Southern "Eagles"
Union (Tennessee) "Bulldogs"
Tulane "Green Wave"
Baylor "Bears"
Tulsa "Golden Hurricaine"
Southern Methodist "Mustangs"
Oral Roberts "Golden Eagles"

&Metro-Atlantic

Canisius "Golden Griffons"
Fairfield "Stags"
Manhattan "Jaspers"
Marist "Silver Foxes"
Niagra "Purple Eagles"
Rider "Broncs"
St. Peter's "Peacocks"
Siena "Saints"
LaSalle "Explorers"
Delaware State "Hornets"
SUNY Empire State "Praetors"
Maryland-Eastern Shore "Hawks"

#Mid-American

Eastern Michigan "Eagles"
Central Michigan "Chippawas"
Western Michigan "Broncos"
Grand Valley State "Lakers"
Saginaw Valley State "Cardinals"
Wright State "Raiders"
Toledo "Rockets"
Bowling Green State "Falcons"
Akron "Zips"
Kent State "Golden Flashes"
Cleveland State "Vikings"
Ball State "Cardinals"
Indiana-Purdue-Fort Wayne "Mastadons"

&Mid Continent

Oakland "Golden Grizzlies"
Northern Michigan "Wildcats"
Lake Superior State "Lakers"
Michigan Tech "Huskies"
Western Illinois "Leathernecks"
Southern Illinois-Edwardsville "Cougars"
Southern Indiana "Eagles"
Shawnee State "Indians"
Minnesota State-Mankato "Mavericks"
Saint Cloud State "Huskies"

#Midwestern

Kentucky "Wildcats"
Louisville "Cardinals"
Western Kentucky "Hilltoppers"
Ohio State "Buckeyes"
Ohio "Bobcats"
Miami (Ohio) "Redhawks"
Illinois "Fighting Illini"
Illinois-Chicago "Flames"
Illinois State "Redbirds"
Southern Illinois "Salukis"
Missouri "Tigers"
Missouri-Kansas City "Kangaroos"

&Missouri Valley

Eastern Kentucky "Colonels"
Northern Kentucky "Norsemen"
Murray State "Racers"
Morehead State "Eagles"
Harlan State "Highlanders"
Eastern Illinois "Panthers"
Evansville "Purple Aces"
Lincoln (Missouri) "Tigers"
Northwest Missouri State "Bearcats"
Wichita State "Shockers"
Washburn "Ichabods"
Pittsburg State (Kansas) "Gorillas"

&Northeastern

Connecticut State (Currently Central Conn. State) "Blue Devils"
Farleigh Dickenson "Knights"
Long Island "Huskies"
Long Island-CW Post "Pioneers"
Quinnipac "Bobcats"
Wagner "Seahawks"
Sacred Heart "Pioneers"
Acadia "Axemen"
Mount Allison "Mounties"
Queen's (Ontario) "Gaels"
SUNY Plattsburg "Cardinals"
Ottowa "Gee-Gees"

#Patriot Leagure

American University "Eagles"
UCAS Army "Cadets"
UCAS Navy "Midshipmen"
UCAS Air Force (Formerly Royal Canadian Millitary College, Kingston Ontario) "Falcons"
SUNY Binghamton "Bearcats"
SUNY Albany "Great Danes"
George Washington "Colonials"
North Virginia State (Currently George Mason) "Patriots"
Bucknell University "Bison"
Colgate University "Red Raiders"
Lafayette College "Patriots"
Lehigh University "Mountain Hawks"



#Southeastern

South Carolina "Gamecocks"
Georgia "Bulldogs"
Florida "Gators"
Florida State "Seminoles"
Auburn "Tigers"
Alabama "Crimson Tide"
Ole Miss "Rebels"
Mississippi State "Bulldogs"
LSU "Tigers"
Louisiana Tech "Bulldogs"
Arkanas "Razorbacks"
South Missouri (Currently Missouri-Saint Louis) "Rivermen"
South Missouri State (Currently Missouri State) "Bears"
Tennessee "Volonteers"

&Southern

Georgia Southern "Eagles"
Tennessee-Chattanooga "Moccasins"
Tennessee-Martin "Skyhawks"
Austin Peay State "Governors"
Jacksonville State "Gamecocks"
North Alabama "Bulldogs"
South Carolina-Upstate "Running Rifles"
South Carolina-Aiken "Lions"
East Tennessee State "Buccaneers"
Wofford "Terriors"
Coastal Carolina "Chancileers"
Davidson "Wildcats"
Elon "Phoenix"
Mercer "Kingfishers"

#Southwest:

Texas "Longhorns"
Texas A&M&M "Aggies"
Texas Tech "Red Raiders"
West Texas A&M&M "Buffaloes"
Texas Christian "Horned Frogs"
Houston "Cougars"
Dallas Baptist "Kingsmen"
Oklahoma "Sooners"
Oklahoma State "Cowboys"
Rogers State Wildcats"

#Sun Belt

Middle Tennessee State "Blue Raiders"
Tennessee State "Tigers"
Tennessee Tech "Golden Eagles"
North Texas "Mean Green"
Arkansas State "Indians"
Arkansas Tech "Wonder Boys"
Louisiana-Monroe "Warhawks"
Troy "Trojans"
South Alabama "Jaguars"
Florida-Pennsicola (Currently West Florida) "Argonauts"
Florida-Fort Myers (Currently Florida Gulf Coast) "Eagles"
Armstrong Atlantic State "Pirates"

#Western Athletic

Washington "Huskies"
Seattle "Redhawks"
Cal-Davis "Aggies"
San Jose State "Spartans"
Fresno State "Bulldogs"
Cal-Santa Barbara "Bananna Slugs"
Cal Poly-San Luis Obispo "Mustangs"
Colorado "Buffaloes"
Colorado-Denver "Bighorns"
Colorado-Colorado Springs "Mountain Lions"

#=Division 1A
&=Division 1AA

The Rest are non-scholarship football or non football.

(I suspect the "Black Conferences" in the CAS will be forced to drop down to Division II)

I know that aside from the "Black Colleges," I've left entire conferences out, though some because they are now in the NAN. I apologise, but I was a little rushed.

Questions? Comments? Flames? (I think that by now the entire Pennsylvania Athletic Conference will have pulled itself up to at least Division IAA, but I'm not certain.)
SL James
Uh... The Historically-Black colleges and universities in the South already are mostly Division II.

And, still... the SEC isn't big enough at 12 schools that you want to add 2 more?

I assume the A-12 is an expanded A-10 conference. You're missing a school: The George Washington University.

The Colonial AC? Do Liberty and Bob Jones even have teams? I know they aren't anywhere near being Division 1-A.

Notre Dame doesn't play football as a part of any conference, and is in the Big East for pretty much everything else.

You forgot the Patriot League, which is 1-A.
  • American University
  • United States Military Academy (football is independent)
  • Bucknell University
  • Colgate University
  • College of the Holy Cross
  • Lafayette College
  • Lehigh University
  • United States Naval Academy (football is independent)
Also... Dude, seriously? The Evil Eight (aka the Ivy League) will never expand. Guaranteed.
Kalvan
QUOTE (SL James)
Uh... The Historically-Black colleges and universities in the South already are mostly Division II.

And, still... the SEC isn't big enough at 12 schools that you want to add 2 more?

Also, Notre Dame doesn't play football as a part of any conference, and is in Conference USA for basketball. Why change this?

The CAS Secession placed Kentucky on the wrong side of the border, and the Four schools they picked up are all State Flagships

(The SEC couldn't deny them unless they would be willing to give Ole Miss, Mississippi State, and Arkansas the boot)

Currently, Notre Dame plays all sports save football in the Big East. I think they are _way_ overrated right now, and will continue to sink in football. (And being the Fighting Irish, they will be on the wrong side of Pius XIV's fight against Tir na n'Og, and their football program will suffer for it.)

D'Oh! Forgot the Patriot League (I'll do them tomorrow)
SL James
Yeah. I edited that about ND. And trust me, I am well aware of how much their football team sucks. I am, after all, a member of the Trojan Family.

Anyway, I am still weary of a conference with more than 12 teams. It has proven in almost every instance to be unworkable. Look at the WAC - It was a very large conference for a short time before 8 teams (including 4 charter teams) broke off and formed the MWC. Now both are up to nine apiece. The SEC and the Big-XII are as big as a conference should get.
Kalvan
And as for the Ivy League, either they put in MIT&T and Monmouth, or they boot out Cornell, which historically doesn't belong as it was founded after the Civil War to be land grant school.

You also must remember that the CAS secession destroyed many conferences by putting rivals on opposite sides of the border.
Kalvan
One last thing?

What do I do about the now redundant Royal Canadian Millitary College at Kingston, Ontario?

Does it become a civillian school, or is it closed, or does it become a specialty school (like Nuclear Powered, JAG School, Rocket School, ect.)?
SL James
Eh. That assumes that the NCAA is as short-sighted as the NFL.

But as for the Ivies - they're a horribly arrogant and exclusionary league. It would take a miracle to expand it.

As for the RCMC - I don't know. Maybe refit it to be the new Air Force Academy.
Kyoto Kid
..."Lakeside" sounds too much like the conference my old high school is in. Maybe Great Lakes Conference would be a more suitable name.

I would have kept Wisconsin Milwaukee in the Horizon League considering they are not of the calibre of a Michigan, Minnesota, or Wisconsin. Also, isn't Minnesota Duluth currenly a div. II team?

IMO, an old long standing conference such as the Big Ten would remain pretty much intact as it is today (yeah, I could see Penn State moving which would bring it back to 10 schools). Too many long running rivalries to split it up (one of the most storied of course being being Michigan & Ohio State).

Marquette (which BTW does not have a football squad) would fit better in one of the Central UCAS conferences since the school is located some 900 miles from the Atlantic. I would have either left them in the Big East where they currently are or moved them to the Mid American, or back into Conference CAS (old Conference USA).
Kalvan
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
..."Lakeside" sounds too much like the conference my old high school is in. Maybe Great Lakes Conference would be a more suitable name.

I would have kept Wisconsin Milwaukee in the Horizon League considering they are not of the calibre of a Michigan, Minnesota, or Wisconsin. Also, isn't Minnesota Duluth currenly a div. II team?

IMO, an old long standing conference such as the Big Ten would remain pretty much intact as it is today (yeah, I could see Penn State moving which would bring it back to 10 schools). Too many long running rivalries to split it up (one of the most storied of course being being Michigan & Ohio State).

Minnesota-Duluth already has a law and medical school, the state's pharmacy school, and is the state's sea grant school.

Wisconsin-Milwaukee is growing faster than Madison and by the 2070s will be neck and neck with it.

So, Kyoto kid, with the CAS secession spliting the Big XII right down the middle, The Isolation of Kentucky from the rest of the SEC, the growth of Western Kentucky, UMKC, and the Dakota Schools into Division 1A status, UIC, IUPUI, and Wayne State standing up to be counted, and several worthy Central Canadian schools added to the mix, how would you arrainge the conferences in such a way as to retain fairness, and yet avoid a repeat of the 23 school Southern Conference of the 1920s?
Kalvan
Oh, and there are at least two Great Lakes conferences in Division II
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Kalvan)

Minnesota-Duluth already has a law and medical school, the state's pharmacy school, and is the state's sea grant school.

Wisconsin-Milwaukee is growing faster than Madison and by the 2070s will be neck and neck with it.

So, Kyoto kid, with the CAS secession spliting the Big XII right down the middle, The Isolation of Kentucky from the rest of the SEC, the growth of Western Kentucky, UMKC, and the Dakota Schools into Division 1A status, UIC, IUPUI, and Wayne State standing up to be counted, and several worthy Central Canadian schools added to the mix, how would you arrainge the conferences in such a way as to retain fairness, and yet avoid a repeat of the 23 school Southern Conference of the 1920s?

...give me a little time to compare the geography this.

One thing, all the Big Ten campuses (including Penn State) would still be in the UCAS so there should be no reason to break that conference up. The Big East, save for Marquette, & Louisville (which joined last season) and the SUNY schools is pretty much the same in your projection as it is today.

I can agree with your assessment of the Big XII, SEC, & ACC. One conference that would be completely reamed would be the Pac 10. Washington is in the UCAS, Washington State (or what ever it gets renamed) is in the Salish Council. Oregon & Oregon State are in the TT, Stanford & UC Berkeley are in Cali Free, UCLA, USC & Arizona State are in the Pueblo Council, and finally Arizona is in Azatlan.

As to UW Milwaukee being on par with the "big boys" that may eventually be true in academics and student body size, but in athletics, UWM would still have an uphill road to travel to match up against schools like Ohio State, Michigan, Wisconsin, or even Northwestern. Keep in mind, these institutions would also continue to expereince growth as well. With their long standing history and traditions, they would still command a huge edge in recruitment, and strong recruitment is what makes for a successful programme.
Kalvan
Updated!
Kalvan
Bump!
FrankTrollman
Whoa! Why are the Santa Barbarians suddenly the Banana Slugs? That's UCSC - Santa Cruz. Santa Barbara is like 400 kilometers away.

And I think they are the Gauchos.

-Frank
Wyrm Fanboy
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Notre Dame hate is going to continue into the 2070's, especially after it's revealed that Charlie Weis is an immortal elf.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Wyrm Fanboy)
Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Notre Dame hate is going to continue into the 2070's, especially after it's revealed that Charlie Weis is an immortal elf.

...yeah, and they'll still be so full of themselves that they believe they have to be in the Bowl Crap Series (or whatever it is called by then) every year too.

And at Penn State, Jo Pa will still be coaching the Nittany Lions too (after all, he's an IE).
Wyrm Fanboy

QUOTE

And at Penn State, Jo Pa will still be coaching the Nittany Lions too (after all, he's an IE).


Nah, Jo Pa died in 1996. He's been undead for the last decade. If you don't believe me, check out the t-shirt.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Wyrm Fanboy)
QUOTE

And at Penn State, Jo Pa will still be coaching the Nittany Lions too (after all, he's an IE).


Nah, Jo Pa died in 1996. He's been undead for the last decade. If you don't believe me, check out the t-shirt.

...nice, really nice.

makes sense since one day last year, was bowled over by a linebacker during practice. Afterwards he simply got up, brushed himself off, & continued walking across the field as if nothing happened.

Now if the linebacker had been a "way of the athlete" adept with Killing Hands (or in this case, Killing Shoulder Block), it might have been a different story.
Kalvan
So, Kyoto Kid, do you have a solution to the question of which UCAS flagship universities west of the Appalachains go where yet?
Kyoto Kid
...I had thought this thread fell off the face of the earth a while back so I stopped my research.

Basically the way I look at it, College athletics in the 6th world will not be the way we know it today. For one, the old US has been broken into several independent nations. The only places I see the "traditional" college sport programmes continuing in their current format are the UCAS and CAS which are still pretty much Anglo American. Schools in the NANs would most likely undergo a change in focus and philosophy, as would those in the TT and Aztlan.

Some conferences (Like the Big 10, Big East and SEC would survive pretty much intact since they are still for the most part wholly within the UCAS or CAS borders. Others like the ACC and Big 12 Would have alignment shifts while a few like the old Conference USA(UCAS) and Pac 10 would most likely disappear all together.

Each nation would also have its own oversight committees for Academics and Athletics (there would be no NAAA).

Next, many schools, particularly those outside the UCAS/CAS would have different names, mascots, or possibly not even exist (the southern California schools for example due to the riots of LA, the takeover by the PC and finally, the big quake). With the breakup of the old USA, state names would have little meaning any more. Take for example the UW in Seattle which is now Metroplex University or the University of Oregon which became the University of Tir Taringire (I'm sure that the duck is no longer the school's mascot either)

Finally, in these other nations, there would be changes to the athletic programmes themselves. I don't see many of the NAN universities continuing to fund and administrate what are basically considered "White Man's Sports" (Football, Basketball, Baseball). For team competition, the most logical choice would be Lacrosse and/or Field Hockey (the latter already mentioned as being pretty much the TT's favourite pastime in the Tir Sourcebook). Other activities that provide a more personal challenge such as some track & field events, endurance competitions, swimming and wrestling would be more popular. Even some of the so called "extreme sports" like Iron Man, Whitewater Kayaking, Rock Climbing, and Scrambling could find their way into the NAN athletic departments.

Basically the NCAA (UCAA?) as we know it would be a much smaller organisation (As would the CSAA).

And I haven't even touched on the whole College Bowl scene, "March Madness, and CWS. There would most definitely be some major changes here as well. But that's for another discussion
Kalvan
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
University of Oregon which became the University of Tir Taringire (I'm sure that the duck is no longer the school's mascot either)

Actually, from what I can piece together, Oregon, Oregon State, Salem State of Oregon, Portland State, Oregon Health Sciences Center, and Oregon Tech were re-organised into the five campus University of Tir Tairngire System.
Kalvan
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
Some conferences (Like the Big 10, Big East and SEC would survive pretty much intact since they are still for the most part wholly within the UCAS or CAS borders. Others like the ACC and Big 12 Would have alignment shifts while a few like the old Conference USA(UCAS) and Pac 10 would most likely disappear all together.

I'll keep asking until I get a straight answer (And yes, I'll take "I don't know" for an answer):

In the 2070 of Shadowrun, which comferences do you see Minnesota-Duluth, Wisconsin-Millwaukee, Illinois-Chicago, Wayne State, IUPUI, York University of Ontario, Toronto, Kentucky, Louisville, Western Kentucky, Missouri, MUKC, the Big XII North Schools, Nebraska-Omaha, the Dakota flagships, and West Ontario?

For me, long delays without prompting mean I'm being patient, not that I'm breezing.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Kalvan)
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Sep 27 2006, 03:59 PM)
Some conferences (Like the Big 10, Big East and SEC would survive pretty much intact since they are still for the most part wholly within the UCAS or CAS borders.  Others like the ACC and Big 12 Would have alignment shifts while a few like the old Conference USA(UCAS) and Pac 10 would most likely disappear all together.

I'll keep asking until I get a straight answer (And yes, I'll take "I don't know" for an answer):

In the 2070 of Shadowrun, which comferences do you see Minnesota-Duluth, Wisconsin-Millwaukee, Illinois-Chicago, Wayne State, IUPUI, York University of Ontario, Toronto, Kentucky, Louisville, Western Kentucky, Missouri, MUKC, the Big XII North Schools, Nebraska-Omaha, the Dakota flagships, and West Ontario?

For me, long delays without prompting mean I'm being patient, not that I'm breezing.

To start off, UW Milwaukee, Illinois-Chicago, Duluth-Superior would remain in the Horizon League (Unless the league dissolved, however most of the member schools are still in the UCAS proper).

The Dakota schools I believe would be in the Sioux Nation and fall under that country's administration.

Mizzou, along with Iowa State, Kansas, Nebraska and K-state (again need to see where the western boundary is on this) are the only members of the Big XII north that would be in UCAS proper. Colorado is now in the Pueblo Council, and I believe Arkansas is in now the CAS. I need to look at the lead post again (later at lunch) to see where you originally placed these schools.

I am not as familiar with the [RL] Canadian schools as to size and level of athletic programmes since they are currently not part of the NCAA.

I'll have to get back later on this since break is over.
Kalvan
Actually, There's a strip of Colorado from Boulder to Colorado Springs that appears to still be UCAS Territory (Except for the partitioned Treaty City of Denver proper.)

The Dakota flagships are all in the southeast corners of their respective states.
Kyoto Kid
...I'll have to check my SR 2070 map when I get home. I thought the PC took a lot of that over after crash 2.0 when they also annexed the Ute Nation.
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