Ok if I'm right, adpet centering is not quite the broken abomination it was in previous editions.
Base premise you are allowed a single free action duting your action in the initiative pass.
Calling a shot requires a free action
Centering requires a free action
Therefore you cannot call a shot and use centering at the same time.
Is this correct?
Full Version: Adept Centering + Called Shot
Oh, good catch. I had forgotten that a Called Shot is a Free Action. So that is correct, since Centering is a Free Action as well and you only get one Free Action. Multitasking wouldn't help there either since it only provides extra Free Actions when not directly involved in combat, and this would seem to fall under direct involvement.
Can you exchange a simple action for an additional free action leaving you with one simple action remaining to do your attack in?
Yes.
| QUOTE (page 136) |
| An extra Free Action may be taken in place of a Simple Action |
But that effectively converts a Centered Called Shot to a Complex Action, which puts it in line with spell casting and Taking Aim first.
Called Shot of +1 DV per -1 die is still wacked though.
| QUOTE (Brahm) | ||
Yes.
But that effectively converts a Centered Called Shot to a Complex Action, which puts it in line with spell casting and Taking Aim first. |
That was what was as intended.
Is there something in Street Magic that I am missing regarding the use of Centering for something besides Drain?
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) |
| Is there something in Street Magic that I am missing regarding the use of Centering for something besides Drain? |
Street Magic has a Metamagic called Adept Centering which allows ADepts to center agains dice pool penalties. Like centering they use a free action, except instead of helping with drain it eliminates up to their initiate grade in negative dice pool penalties.
Ah... okay, so it's not Centering, it's Adept Centering. Got it... thanks. I have to get my hands on that book.
Is their a roll associated with that reduction? Or is it just a straight reduction.
Doesn't appear to be a test, just reduces up to initiate grade in penalties. (which while problematic is infinitely better than granting initiate grade bonus dice)
I just want to rez this topic from the grave, because everyone seemed to be in agreement (including a dev?), but I don't understand how it's right.
Correct me if I'm wrong: Calling a shot requires a Take Aim Simple Action (and I assume you don't add the normal +1 die for that, like using an image magnification system), but it also says you have to spend a Free Action to specifically call the shot. We've been playing a "take aim turn" as Simple (take aim) + Free (called shot) + Simple (make your attack).
So if all you have left is a Simple Action, you can't shoot and use Adept Centering. Even if you wait until the next Action Phase, you'll have to use Adept Centering during that phase, and the Take Aim action says you lose the benefits of taking aim if you take "any other kind of action--including a Free Action--at any time [before the next Attack Test]." So I can't see a single situation where taking aim and Adept Centering ever work together.
That SEEMS reasonable to me, because canceling called shot penalties looks like the pinnacle of cheese (at first glance), but like I said, everyone on this post thinks otherwise.
So... am I missing something?
Correct me if I'm wrong: Calling a shot requires a Take Aim Simple Action (and I assume you don't add the normal +1 die for that, like using an image magnification system), but it also says you have to spend a Free Action to specifically call the shot. We've been playing a "take aim turn" as Simple (take aim) + Free (called shot) + Simple (make your attack).
So if all you have left is a Simple Action, you can't shoot and use Adept Centering. Even if you wait until the next Action Phase, you'll have to use Adept Centering during that phase, and the Take Aim action says you lose the benefits of taking aim if you take "any other kind of action--including a Free Action--at any time [before the next Attack Test]." So I can't see a single situation where taking aim and Adept Centering ever work together.
That SEEMS reasonable to me, because canceling called shot penalties looks like the pinnacle of cheese (at first glance), but like I said, everyone on this post thinks otherwise.
So... am I missing something?
QUOTE (Veggiesama @ Sep 5 2009, 08:41 PM) 
I just want to rez this topic from the grave, because everyone seemed to be in agreement (including a dev?), but I don't understand how it's right.
Correct me if I'm wrong: Calling a shot requires a Take Aim Simple Action (and I assume you don't add the normal +1 die for that, like using an image magnification system), but it also says you have to spend a Free Action to specifically call the shot.
So if all you have left is a Simple Action, you can't shoot and use Adept Centering. Even if you wait until the next Action Phase, you'll have to use Adept Centering during that phase, and the Take Aim action says you lose the benefits of taking aim if you take "any other kind of action--including a Free Action--at any time." So I can't see a single situation where taking aim and Adept Centering ever work together.
So... am I missing something?
Correct me if I'm wrong: Calling a shot requires a Take Aim Simple Action (and I assume you don't add the normal +1 die for that, like using an image magnification system), but it also says you have to spend a Free Action to specifically call the shot.
So if all you have left is a Simple Action, you can't shoot and use Adept Centering. Even if you wait until the next Action Phase, you'll have to use Adept Centering during that phase, and the Take Aim action says you lose the benefits of taking aim if you take "any other kind of action--including a Free Action--at any time." So I can't see a single situation where taking aim and Adept Centering ever work together.
So... am I missing something?
QUOTE (Page 146 @ Anniversary Reprint)
Call a Shot
A character may "call a shot" (aim for a vulnerable portion of a target) with this Free Action. See Called Shots, p. 161. This action must be immediately followed by a Take Aim, Fire Weapon, Throw Weapon, or Melee Unarmed Attack.
A character may "call a shot" (aim for a vulnerable portion of a target) with this Free Action. See Called Shots, p. 161. This action must be immediately followed by a Take Aim, Fire Weapon, Throw Weapon, or Melee Unarmed Attack.
QUOTE (Page 53 @ Street Magic)
Adept Centering (Adepts Only)
Adept Centering is a variation of Centering (p. 189, SR4) available only to adepts and mystic adepts that allows an initiate to reduce negative dice pool modifiers to Physical and Combat skills by her initiate grade—as long as she can physically perform her chosen method of centering.
Adept Centering is a variation of Centering (p. 189, SR4) available only to adepts and mystic adepts that allows an initiate to reduce negative dice pool modifiers to Physical and Combat skills by her initiate grade—as long as she can physically perform her chosen method of centering.
QUOTE (Page 198 @ Anniversary Reprint)
Centering requires a Free Action, which must be taken in the same Action Phase as the Drain Resistance Test.
Adept Centering is a Free Action but needs only be made in the same Action Phase. Call A Shot needs to be made immediately before you fire, or before the Aim action sequence prior to firing. It is therefore valid to Centre, then Call A Shot for +4 DV followed up by shooting someone in the face for no penalty if you've initiated to Grade 4. You can, in fact, Call A Shot, then repeatedly Aim and use the Free Action from a later Action Phase to Centre.
Game mechanics aside, I can't really think of any good centering skills that gel with firing a gun -- especially something like a rifle. To my mind it seems a little far fetched that someone concentrating on lining up a target, on regulating his breathing, and so on can make arcane gestures, dance, chant in latin, or whatever without actually throwing off his aim. Maybe, just maybe, I could see a subvocal mantra or chant helping with breathing or some kind of meditation being helpful, but I dunno...
On a side note, I can't say I'm a fan of the implementation of centering in previous editions where another roll was required in order to determine how effective the centering was, but at the same time I'm not overly fond of the idea of letting a character get away with ignoring his initiate grade in dice pool penalties with only a rating 1 centering skill. Consequently, I've house-ruled it so that the maximum number of negative dice penalties you can ignore is equal to your initiate grade or the skill you're using for centering, whichever is lower. Oh, and of course, it can't be chip-based. =)
On a side note, I can't say I'm a fan of the implementation of centering in previous editions where another roll was required in order to determine how effective the centering was, but at the same time I'm not overly fond of the idea of letting a character get away with ignoring his initiate grade in dice pool penalties with only a rating 1 centering skill. Consequently, I've house-ruled it so that the maximum number of negative dice penalties you can ignore is equal to your initiate grade or the skill you're using for centering, whichever is lower. Oh, and of course, it can't be chip-based. =)
I'm amused that you can't think of a way that centering can help with the things like regulating breathing, when one of the most famous centering skills is regulating your breathing.
You know "Breathe in....1 .... 2 .... 3 .... Breathe out.... "
You know "Breathe in....1 .... 2 .... 3 .... Breathe out.... "
Actually, I was thinking...
SR4A, P. 198: Metamagic
Centering: A character who learns to center has an easier time resisting the Drain inherent in magical activities. By using a mundane activity appropriate to her tradition to quiet her mind and block out distractions, she adds a number of dice equal to her grade of initiation to all Drain Resistance Tests. Centering requires a Free Action, which must be taken in the same Action Phase as the Drain Resistance Test. The character must be physically able to move and/or speak freely in order to center, and may attract attention to herself. Centering techniques include acts such as chanting in Latin, dancing, making arcane gestures, and so on.
Nothing says you couldn't quote Scripture, for example. Roman Catholic Holy Adept Sacred Sniper Assasins (RoCHASSA). Haven't you heard of them? They're a secret order withi-
*silenced rifle shot and the sound of glass shattering*
QUOTE (Pvt. Daniel Jackson from Saving Private Ryan)
Be not Thou far from me, O Lord... *rifle shot*
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight... *rifle shot*
My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust... *rifle shot*
O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not my enemies triumph over me... *rifle shot*
Bleesed be the Lord my strength, which teaches my hands to the war, and my fingers to fight... *rifle shot*
My goodness and my fortress... my high tower and my Deliverer...*rifle shot*
My shield, and he in whom I trust... *rifle shot*
Blessed be the Lord my strength, which teaches my hands to war, and my fingers to fight... *rifle shot*
My goodness, and my fortress; my high tower, and my deliverer; my shield, and he in whom I trust... *rifle shot*
O my God, I trust in thee: let me not be ashamed, let not my enemies triumph over me... *rifle shot*
Bleesed be the Lord my strength, which teaches my hands to the war, and my fingers to fight... *rifle shot*
My goodness and my fortress... my high tower and my Deliverer...*rifle shot*
My shield, and he in whom I trust... *rifle shot*
SR4A, P. 198: Metamagic
Centering: A character who learns to center has an easier time resisting the Drain inherent in magical activities. By using a mundane activity appropriate to her tradition to quiet her mind and block out distractions, she adds a number of dice equal to her grade of initiation to all Drain Resistance Tests. Centering requires a Free Action, which must be taken in the same Action Phase as the Drain Resistance Test. The character must be physically able to move and/or speak freely in order to center, and may attract attention to herself. Centering techniques include acts such as chanting in Latin, dancing, making arcane gestures, and so on.
Nothing says you couldn't quote Scripture, for example. Roman Catholic Holy Adept Sacred Sniper Assasins (RoCHASSA). Haven't you heard of them? They're a secret order withi-
*silenced rifle shot and the sound of glass shattering*
QUOTE (deden @ Sep 5 2009, 08:19 PM)
Game mechanics aside, I can't really think of any good centering skills that gel with firing a gun -- especially something like a rifle. To my mind it seems a little far fetched that someone concentrating on lining up a target, on regulating his breathing, and so on can make arcane gestures, dance, chant in latin, or whatever without actually throwing off his aim. Maybe, just maybe, I could see a subvocal mantra or chant helping with breathing or some kind of meditation being helpful, but I dunno...
On a side note, I can't say I'm a fan of the implementation of centering in previous editions where another roll was required in order to determine how effective the centering was, but at the same time I'm not overly fond of the idea of letting a character get away with ignoring his initiate grade in dice pool penalties with only a rating 1 centering skill. Consequently, I've house-ruled it so that the maximum number of negative dice penalties you can ignore is equal to your initiate grade or the skill you're using for centering, whichever is lower. Oh, and of course, it can't be chip-based. =)
On a side note, I can't say I'm a fan of the implementation of centering in previous editions where another roll was required in order to determine how effective the centering was, but at the same time I'm not overly fond of the idea of letting a character get away with ignoring his initiate grade in dice pool penalties with only a rating 1 centering skill. Consequently, I've house-ruled it so that the maximum number of negative dice penalties you can ignore is equal to your initiate grade or the skill you're using for centering, whichever is lower. Oh, and of course, it can't be chip-based. =)
Just a minor point, but you are no longer required to actually purchase a skill; however, you must use some sort of mundane activity to help center you... the afore mentioned breathing exercises would suffice...
Keep the Faith
What pentalties can be cancelled out by Adept Centering? I am not sure if it explicitly lists them in the book, but my group has houserulled it and said you can only Center away penalties directly associated with the Attacker.
IE.
Wound Modifiers
Recoil
Called Shot
Running Shot
Attacker in Cover
Attacking from a moving vehicle
But would not be usable for:
Target taking Cover
Lighting problems
Target is Running
Any thoughts on this?
IE.
Wound Modifiers
Recoil
Called Shot
Running Shot
Attacker in Cover
Attacking from a moving vehicle
But would not be usable for:
Target taking Cover
Lighting problems
Target is Running
Any thoughts on this?
QUOTE (DamienKnight @ Sep 8 2009, 05:01 PM)
What pentalties can be cancelled out by Adept Centering? I am not sure if it explicitly lists them in the book, but my group has houserulled it and said you can only Center away penalties directly associated with the Attacker.
IE.
Wound Modifiers
Recoil
Called Shot
Running Shot
Attacker in Cover
Attacking from a moving vehicle
But would not be usable for:
Target taking Cover
Lighting problems
Target is Running
Any thoughts on this?
IE.
Wound Modifiers
Recoil
Called Shot
Running Shot
Attacker in Cover
Attacking from a moving vehicle
But would not be usable for:
Target taking Cover
Lighting problems
Target is Running
Any thoughts on this?
I'm not sure why you would disqualify those other modifiers. The way I see it, Adept Centering is a magical means of countering/overcoming specific obstacles, allowing the Adept to perform at (closer to) peak performance. Whether those modifiers are for being wounded or for it being dark and smoky or whatever else, I don't really see the distinction.
QUOTE (Sponge @ Sep 8 2009, 04:23 PM)
I'm not sure why you would disqualify those other modifiers. The way I see it, Adept Centering is a magical means of countering/overcoming specific obstacles, allowing the Adept to perform at (closer to) peak performance. Whether those modifiers are for being wounded or for it being dark and smoky or whatever else, I don't really see the distinction.
Agreed...
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