OK, they can swim by defaulting, but doesn't it seem strange that Spirits of Water lack the Swimming skill? Both Spirits of Air and Spirits of Fire have the Flight skill to assist the corresponding movement type, so should this lack of Swimming for the Spirit of Water be considered an oversight? Should this be added to the errata?
As a further note, the Merrow has a swimming movement rate and it has the Swimming skill which seems to show that having the rate doesn't eliminate the need for the skill.
Full Version: Spirits of Water can't swim?
Um... they ARE water. Oh, and they have a swimming movement rate. What's your concern? I agree that it should be listed.
Spirits have tridimensional movement, since they don't need to breath spirits of water can simply float or fly through water...
That is true, but the Spirits of Water are the only ones with separate movement rates depending on the medium, which is strange. All spirits can "fly", even when Materialized, so it doesn't really matter. The ones that have Flight can just do so better, and can use that Power as Running or Swimming. In that sense, I can't believe that Spirits of Water do not have the Swimming skill.
I didn't think they could all fly when materialized. I thought only Air and Fire could fly, according to their stat blocks.
Nope, they are not subject to gravity, and can "fly" all they want when Materialized. Check the first paragraph on p. 177.
Grr.... one sentence. How do I miss this stuff!!!
That's SR for you. lol
Almost the entire system is subjective, and when it isn't, you have to look REALLY hard!
Almost the entire system is subjective, and when it isn't, you have to look REALLY hard!
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) |
| Nope, they are not subject to gravity, and can "fly" all they want when Materialized. Check the first paragraph on p. 177. |
true but not all spirits have the "flight" descriptor in their movement (which apparently just means they fly faster than the other guys)
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) |
| Um... they ARE water. |
Nope.
| QUOTE (Dr. Dodge) |
| true but not all spirits have the "flight" descriptor in their movement (which apparently just means they fly faster than the other guys) |
It the difference between a hovercraft and a thunderbird.
Spirits without Flight movement just hover around.
| QUOTE | ||
true but not all spirits have the "flight" descriptor in their movement (which apparently just means they fly faster than the other guys) |
It means that they CAN fly faster, by using the Flight skill to generate hits as if it were a skill, and then adding some to the rate of flight. The problem is that, although it states that Flight is used like Running or Swimming, it doesn’t specify how it is used specifically. Both Running and Swimming are handled differently.
| QUOTE | ||
Nope. |
Okay, so what do YOU have Spirits of Water Materialize as?
| QUOTE | ||
It the difference between a hovercraft and a thunderbird. Spirits without Flight movement just hover around. |
I don’t agree with this analogy. Both a hovercraft and a thunderbird are subject to the laws of gravity. Spirits are not, whether Materialized or not.
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) |
| I don’t agree with this analogy. Both a hovercraft and a thunderbird are subject to the laws of gravity. Spirits are not, whether Materialized or not. |
You may disagree by the analogy, but the BBB makes it pretty clear:
Any spirit without flight just hovers around, if at all.
Honestly, I don't understand what they want to achieve with that rule... it makes even realistic form spirits very obvious, yet spirits are still subject to the rest of physical laws...
What you think is clear and what I think is clear are two different things. Why do you think that they just hover around? Are you saying that they can't go as high up in the air as they want (within mana limits, of course)?
IIRC the ones who you wouldn't think flew CAN but usually stay close to the ground, hovering or planted two feet to the ground.
That's my take as well. But according to the rules, they can "fly"... They just choose not to most of the time.
| QUOTE (CONAN9845 @ Aug 10 2006, 06:52 AM) | ||||
Okay, so what do YOU have Spirits of Water Materialize as? |
Page 92 of SMag spells out what has been painfully obvious all along. Materialized water spirits aren't actually water, materialized earth spirits aren't just animated dirt and rock, and so on. They aren't truely what they causually appear to be to our physical sight.
Ah... I don't have Street Magic yet. So, does it say what they actually are? If they are Manifested, then they have to be made up of some physical matter. What is it?
| QUOTE (CONAN9845 @ Aug 10 2006, 09:28 AM) |
| What is it? |
Magic!
It is some sort of previously unknown matter that exhibits consistant properties regardless of appearance.
Is that from the book? So they are all made up of the same exact matter? Is that how it works?
It's more like photons - it can work like matter, too.
I guess that's their way of handling not needing to be near a source for the spirits anymore, and not having to worry about domains.
I suppose the Allergies are magical in nature, too, as opposed to just being common sense?
I suppose the Allergies are magical in nature, too, as opposed to just being common sense?
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) |
| It means that they CAN fly faster, by using the Flight skill to generate hits as if it were a skill, and then adding some to the rate of flight. The problem is that, although it states that Flight is used like Running or Swimming, it doesn’t specify how it is used specifically. Both Running and Swimming are handled differently. |
I don't have the book with me so my numbers may not be spot on, but if a spirit has 10/40 (flight) as it's movement, it doesnt need to use the flight skill unless it wants to go faster than that, just like normal movement, no? But I see now that those spirits have a flight skill, while water spirits are lacking a swimming skill, so they can't add hits (w/o defaulting i guess).
And that's just silly.
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) |
| And that's just silly. |
agreed
| QUOTE (Rotbart van Dainig) |
| It's more like photons - it can work like matter, too. |
That's probably the closest analogy, for people that have their head wrapped around a photon's wave/particle nature.
| QUOTE (CONAN9845) | ||||
Okay, so what do YOU have Spirits of Water Materialize as? |
One time, as Popeye. That was an awsome run.
Hey guys! I have an awesome suggestion to solve this problem:
Give water spirits the swim skill!
Doh!
Give water spirits the swim skill!
Doh!
| QUOTE (phasmaphobic @ Aug 11 2006, 01:20 PM) |
| Hey guys! I have an awesome suggestion to solve this problem: Give water spirits the swim skill! Doh! |
i think the point of the topic was, "why don't they have the swim skill?", not "how do i make these spirits have the swim skill?!?!"
| QUOTE (Dr. Dodge) | ||
i think the point of the topic was, "why don't they have the swim skill?", not "how do i make these spirits have the swim skill?!?!" |
Perhaps because... they forgot?
Why does it bother you so much?
| QUOTE (phasmaphobic) | ||
|
it doesn't and you're right it's easy to fix. but isnt the point of DS to talk about crap that doesnt really matter?
| QUOTE (Dr. Dodge) |
| it doesn't and you're right it's easy to fix. but isnt the point of DS to talk about crap that doesnt really matter? |
It's like weight training for strength. It doesn't achieve anything directly, but bloody Hell if we aren't all awesome arguers in real life.
Being an "awesome arguer" is one thing. Trying to argue everything because you can get away with it online is more like what really happens.
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| but bloody Hell if we aren't all awesome arguers in real life. |
Awesome arguers? One might even go so far as to call us a bunch of master debators.
[Grin/Duck/Run]
Why, you're quite the the cunning linguist, aren't you?
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