Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Consensus
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
I'm looking to start a new group and I hate to do this but my search fu is weak. However... Is there a consensus on the board as to wether SR4 is better than, the same as, or worse the SR3? What are the pros and cons?
RE: SR3 vs SR4 Posts

I think thats why you'll have trouble finding those kind of posts.
hee hee hee hoo hoo ha ha ha ha ha haw haw haw!
James McMurray
If you look at the bottom of the main SR4 forum page you'll see a dropdown that lets you view all threads from the beginning. Do that, jump to page 95, and start reading. smile.gif

You won't get a consensus. One thing most people can agree on is that SR4's rules are more universal, SR4's rules are simpler, and the GM has to take a more active role in determinging what he wants in his SR4 campaign. Depending on who you ask those can be bad or good.
Demonseed Elite

James McMurray
Yeah, you couldn't get people to agree on 2 + 2 around here, much less SR3 vs. SR4.
QUOTE (James McMurray)
Yeah, you couldn't get people to agree on 2 + 2 around here, much less SR3 vs. SR4.

It's 5 as long as you're using large values of 2
James McMurray
See? I knew someone would post something similar. smile.gif
QUOTE (Demonseed Elite)

I'd have to agree.
No, I don't.

Or do I?

QUOTE (James McMurray)
Yeah, you couldn't get people to agree on 2 + 2 around here, much less SR3 vs. SR4.

2+2=10 base 4
I ran my first SR4 session yesterday and my players all prefered it, though we were shorthanded and the Mage PC has yet to play.

If you want incredible volumes of information and rules for everything, then use SR3. However, there are a lot of books out there and most of the core rules are supplemented or changed/expanded in subsequent canon rule and/or sourcebooks.

If you are just starting your game and have not played either SR3 or SR4, then try out SR4. There is less complexity (only a few books out under this ruleset), and for a new group that is unfamiliar with the game that can be a plus. In addition, you can increase the complexity and depth of your world as the new books arrive.
See guys, pros and cons, just as requested. Now that wasn't so hard.

By the way, I have played and enjoyed both systems. I am currently involved in a SR4 campaign.
I am playing SR4 and love it, I had tried both SR1 and SR3 and just couldn't stand either. If you are just starting out then I would suggest SR4, even if you don't want to play in 2070 I would suggest SR4. We are playing 20 years earlier using SR4 rules with no problems.
From deep, deep down within the Blakkie Posts' Archive comes this little snipet bit of wisdom.

While moving between SR3 to SR4 is questionable for some at this point......if you are just looking at one or the other to start out with you only need to ask yourself a single simple question:

"Do I like doing Calculus while strung out on my hallucinogenic drug of choice?"

- If the answer is "No" then SR isn't for you. Wuss.
- If the answer is "Maybe" then SR4.
- If the answer is "Yes" then SR3.
- If the answer is "That's what I do most Saturday nights" then run, don't walk, to your nearest book clearance store and pick up SR3. Make sure to also pick up a copy of Rigger 3 for extra giggles.
- If the answer is "I don't remember" then you likely already are an SR3 player. Try checking under the empty pizza boxes for your BBB.
Strangely enough, when I get moved into my new place, I'll be sitting down and looking at the optimum ratio of KG and Rating for plastic explosives. From what I saw when I started trying to play with it earlier, it should only be a Differential Equation.
Shadowrun 3 no longer has "official" products being made for it, but a decent chunk of the old books are compatible with it with a minimum of tweaking.

Shadowrun 4 only has a few books out for it as of yet (the main book, one adventure, one "setting" book and Street Magic, the magic rules expansion), but all of the books that come out in the forseeable future will be compatible with it.
Zen Shooter01
I disagree fiercely with everyone here who says that agreement on Dumpshock is uncommon.
If you like what looks like the Vampire: the Masquerade system with a few tweaks, plus a long history of a good game and an edition that is doomed to rules bloat, then do SR4. If you don't mind the rules bloat, but you hate the V:tM system with enough rage that you are mistaken for a wild animal in the resulting carnage, then play SR3. If you want rules bloat being the focus of the game, then play DnD. If you hate rules bloat, then why are you playing a PnP game to begin with?

For the record, I like the V:tM system and how it's being used here.
Samaels Ghost
Rules bloat: When the amount of rules in a system begin to increase, and don't stop. Over time, the increase in rules sometimes requires more rules just to cover interactions with other rules or to correct previous rules or misinteractions between rules. DnD in particular is plagued by this with every edition, and the current one is already a rules nightmare despite streamlining attempts. To get an idea, combine all of the SR3, SR3, and SR1 books together, and then try to come up with a coherent rules system that allows all of the books to work at the same time. You'll still only be halfway to the point DnD is.

Oh, and for a lot of fun, play a campaign that allows magic, psionics, incarnum, interplanar travel, and Eastern-style characters in a campaign that sometimes gives magical locations as treasure. Feel free to commit suicide as soon as you see how many books you need. It gets even more interesting if you allow artificers and their variants.

I'll admit that SR3 is math-heavy and rules heavy. But, it's nothing compared to how DnD can get. I used to be a rules lawyer for higher for DnD games, and it paid well.
Samaels Ghost
QUOTE (LilithTaveril)
I'll admit that SR3 is math-heavy and rules heavy. But, it's nothing compared to how DnD can get. I used to be a rules lawyer for higher for DnD games, and it paid well.

You got paid to play D&D?! OUTRAGEOUS!

Rules bloat....that's what I thought you meant from context, but I had never heard the term. Yeah, D&D has gotten pretty bad, but we generally kept the rules variants to a minimum. I didn't allow some players to even use psionics to limit the number of books at the table. Most of them had enough trouble with the spells they had, let alone some of the weird abilities out there. Every time a spell was cast we had to look something up. SR4 spells are a breath of fresh air biggrin.gif

Rules bloat in SR4....I don't see it happening any time soon. The magicrules we have right now (SR4 + SM) are the only ones I see coming out offically for a very long time. Looking at the book release "schedule" it doesn't look like magic will suffer rules bloat, at least. Unless you think it already has, but you're going to have to convince me first.
Of course. I was the only one at the table who actually knew what was in each book. That way, I could prevent them from spending two hours looking for books just for a particular item.

Oh, and here's a way to test for rules bloat: Have rules been added? If yes, minor bloat happened. If no, then no bloat happened. It's when there's a lot of "yes" answers that it becomes a problem.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012