Im a huge fan of allowing real-world weapons in my campaigns. As I undertook a pretty huge project of converting roughly 2/3rds of ww.World.Guns.ru to Cyberpunk 2020 stats a while back, I think Im almost ready to do the same for SR4.
When this is complete it will be in HTML format complete with pictures and concise write-ups on the weapons. I do plan on posting it to the web, but I'll make it availible as a PDF as well.
Since we have some pretty knowledgeable folks around here on game mechanics, I thought I might issue an open solicitation for advice on the matter.
Full Version: Weapon Conversion
Check out Raygun's World O' Weapons. It's SR3, but conversion shouldn't be overly difficult.
Wow, that guy has some mad kung foo when it comes to web code!
Well, at least I'll have my maps+Photos database as a claim to fame!
Well, at least I'll have my maps+Photos database as a claim to fame!
I'll cross post my old conversion reply from this thread http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...8&hl=conversion There are other more complex methods there also.
Also some stuff has been converted already http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=10213
Anyway, my own technique:
Also some stuff has been converted already http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=10213
Anyway, my own technique:
| QUOTE |
| In general here's what I did for converting SR3 weapons to SR4. So an old gun: Ares MP III laser, 15M with Sniper ranges D = DV 9 or 10 S = DV 7 or 8 M = DV 5 or 6 L = DV 3 or 4 So on that chart I'd probably give it a 5 to help balance out the AP which follows. And with a TN of 15, I equated that pretty closely with the AP value. Since an AP of 15 is in general going to be better than an equivalent M damage gun with apds ammo, I'd give it a -5 or -6 AP. So in the end, Ares MP III laser in a quick and dirty conversion, is a DV5(-5) weapon with sniper or long rifle ranges. If you feel it should be more powerful, make it a DV6(-6). For vehicles, double or nearly double the armor and body, keep other options about the same. A good comparison is the Patrol-1 from both SR3 and SR4. |
Nice! Theres some solid logic behind that.
Where it gets a little crazy is some of my peeps using odd-ball wildcat loads like the Tromix .458 SOCOM upper on an AR-15. That thing is mean!
Where it gets a little crazy is some of my peeps using odd-ball wildcat loads like the Tromix .458 SOCOM upper on an AR-15. That thing is mean!
Thanks, I'm glad it makes sense to some one else besides me 
A friend of mine has a .50 Beowulf upper on his AR bottom. I've never fired it, mostly because I don't want to drop 1$ per trigger pull, but I've heard it's fun to shoot.
A friend of mine has a .50 Beowulf upper on his AR bottom. I've never fired it, mostly because I don't want to drop 1$ per trigger pull, but I've heard it's fun to shoot.
Weapons like that just make sense for a game like SR. Your routinely dealing with body armor as well as *ahem* large two-legged varmit on a regular basis, so somthing with a little more punch that the average rifle makes sense.
This was pretty heavily reflected in Cyberpunk 2020's weapons selections, I've always wondered why it didnt im SR
This was pretty heavily reflected in Cyberpunk 2020's weapons selections, I've always wondered why it didnt im SR
| QUOTE (HullBreach) |
| Weapons like that just make sense for a game like SR. |
I agree, but I would reason it differently. A 5.56x45mm is fine against body armor, quite possibly better than the .458 SOCOM or .50 Beowulf (unless you use saboted ammo for the latter 2, obviously, with the problems that brings). Against trolls, though, you'd definitely want something heftier.
I always figured that SR rifles had gone the way of the smaller, faster round that does amazingly cool things when it hits you. It's pretty hard to explain the capacity of some of the weapons otherwise 
| QUOTE (Shrike30 @ Aug 11 2006, 05:44 PM) |
| I always figured that SR rifles had gone the way of the smaller, faster round that does amazingly cool things when it hits you. It's pretty hard to explain the capacity of some of the weapons otherwise |
This is actually beginning to look like it may have been overstated significantly. Recent testing has indicated that the so-called tumble effect as well as temporary wounding cavities aren't as reliable of wounding methods as previously thought.
The 5.7mm used by the P90 for example is great at passing through body armor, but once its through (or in the abscence of armor) its terminal ballistics are pretty close to that of a .22 magnum. Mind you, an ss190 projectile exits the barrel of this weapon at just under 3000fps.
On the other hand, big relatively (800-1200fps) slow projectiles like shotgun slugs or the large sausage-like projectiles tossed by the Tromix weapons have been shown to be prover performers against armor and meat. Tromix used to have this great video of .50AE ammo being fired from a 16.5" carbine blowing right through laminated armor aircraft glass.
The other benfit of these rounds is that even if they fail to penetrate the armor, they deliver so much blunt force trauma through it that the likelyhood of death or at least incapacitation is very, very high.
For that matter, when a Hellhound is charging your Strret Sam, theres somthing comforting about knowing just how damn huge the bullets your slinging at it are!
| QUOTE (HullBreach) |
| On the other hand, big relatively (800-1200fps) slow projectiles like shotgun slugs or the large sausage-like projectiles tossed by the Tromix weapons have been shown to be prover performers against armor and meat. |
Really, against armor? AFAICT, many shotgun slugs will be stopped by flexible body armor, and I don't see why the .458s, .499s and .50s will be much better. The velocities can be a bit higher and the projectiles a bit smaller in diameter compared to slugs, but they're still a long way from the 5.56s in that regard.
| QUOTE (HullBreach) |
| The other benfit of these rounds is that even if they fail to penetrate the armor, they deliver so much blunt force trauma through it that the likelyhood of death or at least incapacitation is very, very high. |
I doubt that. To kill someone with blunt trauma through body armor, at least on any time scale useful in combat, requires either amazing luck or some really massive forces to play with. Temporary incapacitation, though it would be more likely, would still be so far from being reliable that I certainly wouldn't advertise those rounds based on it.
| QUOTE (HullBreach) |
| For that matter, when a Hellhound is charging your Strret Sam, theres somthing comforting about knowing just how damn huge the bullets your slinging at it are! |
Agreed, though I still think trolls are rather more likely and just as scary a threat.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| I doubt that. To kill someone with blunt trauma through body armor, at least on any time scale useful in combat, requires either amazing luck or some really massive forces to play with. Temporary incapacitation, though it would be more likely, would still be so far from being reliable that I certainly wouldn't advertise those rounds based on it. |
I personally suffered two broken ribs and some light internal bleeding when my trauma plate was shattered by a 12 Gauge slug during a training accident. I'm a big mean bastard, probobly the statistical equivalent of an Orc, and it put me down hard.
This was a 1 ounce slug coming out of an 18 inch barrel approximately 2 meters away. It struck my ceramic matrice trauma plate flat on, and had me trying (painfully) to catch my breath for nearly a minute before I got back on my feet.
The moral of the story is: Don't get shot. It sucks.
| QUOTE (HullBreach) |
| Don't get shot. It sucks. |
No doubt about that, I just don't agree that a firearm can be considered effective vs. body armor because it tends to cause minor blunt trauma when it doesn't penetrate.
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