I've read the description of Elemental Strike (p. 176, SM) and elemental effects (pp. 154-155, SR4 and pp. 164-165, SM) a few times now and I still feel there's a gap in my understanding.
How is the Force of the Elemental Strike determined? Is it equal to the adept's Magic? Or maybe the net DV of the attack?
I'm having many entertaining images play out in my head of a Strength 9 Troll + Killing Hands + Elemental Strike (Blast) + Smashing Blow + Berserk vs. doors, gates, planes, trains, automobiles...
Thanks!
edit: Left out Berserk. Mustn't forget Berserk!
Full Version: Elemental Strike - How does it work?
Due to last minute changes to the elemental effects this is one writeup that didn't come out as clear as it could have been.
Elemental strike uses the "normal" damage of Killing Hands as a baseline and modifies it per the specific elemental effects. For most of the elemental effects the combo is obvious:
Sand elemental effect - the base Killing Hands damage is treated as Physical damage and is resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). If an adept with elemental strike touches or hits something vulnerable the secondary effects of Sand damage may jam and damage machinery or weapons that are not fully sealed against the environment.
Sound elemental damage - the base Killing Hands damage is modified to Stun damage. Armor has no effect (though a Melee hit is still necessary since the effects only extends a little beyond the adept's hands), but sound dampers and spells like Silence and Hush do work (per the elemental effect description). Secondary effects of the elemental effect may also apply.
Light elemental damage - the base Killing Hands damage is still Physical damage but is resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). The brightness of the Light effect will cause any targets (after a successful strike) to suffer a Glare modifier and other secondary effects.
Unfortunately, for others it's less obvious, but still relatively easy to extrapolate. Let's take Blast for instance:
Blast elemental damage - Basic Killing Hands physical damage is
resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). Characters struck with a Blast damage attack are more likely to be knocked down. Add the character's Strength (instead of Force) to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender’s Body for the purposes of Knockdown.
Elemental strike uses the "normal" damage of Killing Hands as a baseline and modifies it per the specific elemental effects. For most of the elemental effects the combo is obvious:
Sand elemental effect - the base Killing Hands damage is treated as Physical damage and is resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). If an adept with elemental strike touches or hits something vulnerable the secondary effects of Sand damage may jam and damage machinery or weapons that are not fully sealed against the environment.
Sound elemental damage - the base Killing Hands damage is modified to Stun damage. Armor has no effect (though a Melee hit is still necessary since the effects only extends a little beyond the adept's hands), but sound dampers and spells like Silence and Hush do work (per the elemental effect description). Secondary effects of the elemental effect may also apply.
Light elemental damage - the base Killing Hands damage is still Physical damage but is resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). The brightness of the Light effect will cause any targets (after a successful strike) to suffer a Glare modifier and other secondary effects.
Unfortunately, for others it's less obvious, but still relatively easy to extrapolate. Let's take Blast for instance:
Blast elemental damage - Basic Killing Hands physical damage is
resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). Characters struck with a Blast damage attack are more likely to be knocked down. Add the character's Strength (instead of Force) to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender’s Body for the purposes of Knockdown.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| Blast elemental damage - Basic Killing Hands physical damage is resisted with half Impact armor (rounded up). Characters struck with a Blast damage attack are more likely to be knocked down. Add the character's Strength (instead of Force) to the damage inflicted when comparing to the defender’s Body for the purposes of Knockdown. |
Oh my. I have a new favorite toy.
Thanks for the fast response!
Synner:
What's the "normal" Killing Hands damage? Str/2, or Str/2 + net hits?
What's the "normal" Killing Hands damage? Str/2, or Str/2 + net hits?
Killing hands follows usual barehanded unarmed combat rules. It just converts the damage from stun to physical. Which is why you load up on Critical Strike, which I would include along with the net hits in the "normal" damage for conversion to elemental damage issues.
Look at the spell elemental rules - if it goes off final damage, not just spell force, that's the way to handle it here. Where it does go off force, like blast knockdown, then sub strength like he said.
Look at the spell elemental rules - if it goes off final damage, not just spell force, that's the way to handle it here. Where it does go off force, like blast knockdown, then sub strength like he said.
isnt lightning given as stun damage in SR4, but allso have a spell that does physical damage?
Suddenly, a troll adept with maxed strength can punch through armor.
What's sudden about it?
The fact that it's other trolls they're punching.
Slithery D:
Yes, I know what damage Killing Hands does. My question was, do net hits on the Unarmed Combat attack test apply to the Force of the Elemental Strike power? Or is the Elemental Strike power damage calculated using the base Unarmed Combat damage of Str/2 alone?
Yes, I know what damage Killing Hands does. My question was, do net hits on the Unarmed Combat attack test apply to the Force of the Elemental Strike power? Or is the Elemental Strike power damage calculated using the base Unarmed Combat damage of Str/2 alone?
Neither one makes much sense; why should how strong you are effect how hot/big the flames on your hands are? I'd go with damage since Magic, the more obvious attribute, doesn't seem to work in this situation.
| QUOTE (Slithery D) |
| why should how strong you are effect how hot/big the flames on your hands are? |
Because the art of the physical adept is turning motion into magic.
I'm pretty sure you have your cause and effect backwards.
I know what causes it! The physical adepts are secretly drawing power from the dikoted ally spirit totem!
Or, it could simply be a case of "they're using magic to enhance their physical motions" and that be it... Nah! Must be the dikoted ally spirit.
Or, it could simply be a case of "they're using magic to enhance their physical motions" and that be it... Nah! Must be the dikoted ally spirit.
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) |
| Yes, I know what damage Killing Hands does. My question was, do net hits on the Unarmed Combat attack test apply to the Force of the Elemental Strike power? Or is the Elemental Strike power damage calculated using the base Unarmed Combat damage of Str/2 alone? |
As I've noted above Elemental strike simply modifies the damage done by successful Killing Hands strike. These are not two different "damage", this is a "combo" attack. So yes, net hits on an Unarmed Combat attack increase the DV of the attack (you're still hitting the target hard with Killing Hands) and this is then modified by the specific Elemental strike effect.
Kage the combat adept [Str 5 / Agility 4 / Unarmed (Karate) 4(6)] strikes at a security guard with Blast elemental effect active. He rolls his normal Unarmed Attack, the guard tries to dodge, and Kage ends up with three net hits. This adds to the DV (Str/2P=3P becomes 6P) of the attack per normal. Since he is using Elemental Strike, this result is now modified per the Blast effect.
Blast means the attack does Physical damage (meaning if Kage had chosen to do Stun damage with Killing Hands the damage would still be Physical), it also means the target resists with only half Impact armor (rounded up) and suffers the enhanced Knockdown effect - adding Kage's Strength (instead of Force) to the damage inflicted (for Str 5 + 6DV) when comparing to the defender’s Body for the purposes of Knockdown.
As Slithery D suggested above simply replace mentions of Force in the elemental effect descriptions with the character's Str.
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