I have a question:
On pg 192 of SR4 mainbook it statesunder the Mentor Spirit section that, "Members of any tradition may have mentor spirits, including adepts."
yet on pg 79 of the mainbook under the description of the Mentor Spirit quality it says, "This quality is only available to characters with either the Magician or Mystic Adept quality."
Curiously ommitting any reference to the adept.
Yet when looking through Street Magic, spefically in the section when talking about Shamanic adepts it seems to imply that they could have a mentor spirit, and on pg 175 under the description of the Beserk Adept power it says, "Adepts or mystic adepts who also possess the berserker disadvantage from a mentor spirit will find this power triggers automatically when they become berserk."
It seems like all the supporting material point to adepts being able to have a mentor spirit and therefore the quality, and that it was just ommitted from the quality description..?
What does everyone else think? And is there an official position on this?
Thanks
Full Version: Adepts and Mentor Spirits
Probably just a typo.
i seem to recall an earlier discussion leading to the conclusion that it was indeed an error. not 100% sure on that though. i thought it had even made it into the errata, but that does not seem to be the case...
All your Base belong to Wolfgang Keis
So which is it? Can an Adept (shamanic or otherwise) have a Mentor Spirit? Inquiring minds want to know.
Clay
Clay
Only Mystics and Mages can have one. You can GM-magic one for Adepts, but I wouldn't give them any bonuses (like cat's gymnastics)
Oh, I'd give them one. And then I'd give them a penalty that makes it all the more useless. Even more useless since all of the benefits would be for spellcasting anyway.
Like, a mentor that increases combat spells practicing tae-crotch-fu on any adepts they have.
Like, a mentor that increases combat spells practicing tae-crotch-fu on any adepts they have.
RAW you can only have one as a magician or mystic adept, if and only if you assume that the text in the quality overrules the text elsewhere.
i believe the conclusion that was reached was that the author intended it to allow for adepts as well, which means you should assume the other text is correct and that the text in the quality is the text that you should ignore.
even if you don't accept the author's intention as being more important, it is still entirely the GM's choice, since the rules say both ways are correct, even though the two possibilities are mutually exclusive.
i believe the conclusion that was reached was that the author intended it to allow for adepts as well, which means you should assume the other text is correct and that the text in the quality is the text that you should ignore.
even if you don't accept the author's intention as being more important, it is still entirely the GM's choice, since the rules say both ways are correct, even though the two possibilities are mutually exclusive.
And really, spending 5 bp to get a spirit that grants, at most, +2 dice to a small set of rolls, and gives you a penalty, is really not too unbalancing. Now if your adept says "Oh, no, I have a custom mentor spirit. Ti Kwon Leap. He adds +2 to all combat tests and +2 to all damage resistance tests, but I have a -2 penalty on all spell casting tests" then you hit him, and take away his character sheet.
The handbook contradicts itself. Street Magic says Adepts can have mentor spirits.
The writer of the handbook said he meant to allow Adepts to have them (but still hasn't corrected in an errata).
He was quoted on here before regarding the latter. I think 2 months or so ago (memory is fuzzy and I'm work). See if it's still a searchable post.
The writer of the handbook said he meant to allow Adepts to have them (but still hasn't corrected in an errata).
He was quoted on here before regarding the latter. I think 2 months or so ago (memory is fuzzy and I'm work). See if it's still a searchable post.
I got a related question. It's kind of a stretch. Okay, quite a stretch, but hey!
Say an Adept has Bear as his Mentor Spirit. Would you give him the +2 Health dice for Pain Relief (Street Magic, p. 179)?
Say an Adept has Bear as his Mentor Spirit. Would you give him the +2 Health dice for Pain Relief (Street Magic, p. 179)?
| QUOTE (zero skill LPB) |
| Say an Adept has Bear as his Mentor Spirit. Would you give him the +2 Health dice for Pain Relief (Street Magic, p. 179)? |
I asked that yesterday w/ my group and it was a resounding "No, Adepts don't "cast spells".
I'm inclinded to agree which limits usefull mentors to bonuses in skills or special abilities (like bezerk).
| QUOTE (Dale) |
| All your Base belong to Wolfgang Keis |
Wasn't he a shamanicly aspected adept? I thought perhaps Wolf was all in his head. He believed he was a werewolf and that he spoke to the spirit of Wolf.
However even if this is not the case several characters in the novels violate the RAW. Case in point - Argent. He had two smartgun links and the description of his using them made it seem as if he had full use of smartgun bonus when wielding akimbo pistols.
| QUOTE |
Wasn't he a shamanicly aspected adept? I thought perhaps Wolf was all in his head. He believed he was a werewolf and that he spoke to the spirit of Wolf. |
From what I understand, he came about (and so did all those stories, IIRC) before the rules as written. Apparently the gave the author the vaguest sense of what the game world was gonna be like, and he went nuts and wrote really cool stories -- and then the stories were, in some ways, more badass than the rules could handle. The end result was that it looked like his characters were big fat cheating rulebreakers, or something, but the chronology was a little off. Still some decent writing, though, for SR fiction.
| QUOTE |
| However even if this is not the case several characters in the novels violate the RAW. Case in point - Argent. He had two smartgun links and the description of his using them made it seem as if he had full use of smartgun bonus when wielding akimbo pistols. |
He also very specifically fires three shot bursts from his dual Ingram Supermachs on several occasions. There's lots of shit like that in the fiction, that I simply don't find myself willing to make excuses for (since lots of it is shitty writing and doesn't fit the game world) -- but the Wolfgang stuff is pretty explainable, so I make a point of mentioning it whenever it comes up.
He's just using multiple init passes - he fires from his right gun in pass 1, his left in pass 2, and his right in pass 3. It just seems like all at once to the watchers. 
Ficition based on RPG's commonly violates the game rules. Read them for fun and forget the rules or don't read them at all. Either way, it's not worth arguing about.
I, uhh, don't really see anyone arguing.
EDIT: double tap.
My player wanted to be a native american adept that worships the boar. Since he bought that beserker power (even if he didn't) i couldn't see why i would keep him from play a totem. Hell, who is to say that half the stuff that happens in magic is isn't he persons head. It's not game Braking, it's not over powerful, and it fleshes out his char. and give me liberty to give him vision and what not. So what so bad about an adept with a totem.
Adepts cannot take the quality of Mentor Spirit. The book is clear on this, to my mind.
That does not prevent them from having one, which can be used as a game mechanic by the GM to pass information or give the runner a swift boot in the can to get moving ... but since they cannot take the quality they never get the bonuses as a Shaman or Mystic Adept would.
That does not prevent them from having one, which can be used as a game mechanic by the GM to pass information or give the runner a swift boot in the can to get moving ... but since they cannot take the quality they never get the bonuses as a Shaman or Mystic Adept would.
Actually Cyberdozer, I posted the question because I believe the books to be rather unclear on the matter. The quality description is explicit, that is true and it ommits adepts, but every other implicit reference in both books would seem to contradict the quality description.
I think our group has decided to allow this as it is of minor benefit for an adept except as a roleplaying aid (with the exception of rat totem perhaps..)
Thank you everyone for your responses to my question. it was appreciated.
Bunsen
I think our group has decided to allow this as it is of minor benefit for an adept except as a roleplaying aid (with the exception of rat totem perhaps..)
Thank you everyone for your responses to my question. it was appreciated.
Bunsen
A correction will be in upcoming errata. The intention was for adepts to be able to take Mentor spirits if they so want—though the vast majority of mentors do not provide modifiers for adepts there is no metaphysical reason they should not have them.
Note, however, that there is no reason an adept cannot follow the Shamanic Way and possess a Totem without taking a mentor spirit.
Note, however, that there is no reason an adept cannot follow the Shamanic Way and possess a Totem without taking a mentor spirit.
| QUOTE (Synner) |
| though the vast majority of mentors do not provide modifiers for adepts there is no metaphysical reason they should not have them. |
Those that do being Bear, Cat, Dark King, Dragonslayer, Moon Maiden, Rat, Sea, Seductress, Thunderbird, Trickster, Bull, Crocodile, Dragon, Gryphon, and Owl.
| QUOTE |
| Note, however, that there is no reason an adept cannot follow the Shamanic Way and possess a Totem without taking a mentor spirit. |
Being the design in Awakening, MitS and SOTA64 for Shamanic Adepts.
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