So, if I have a Trauma Damper (0.4 bio index), I can cast Light-damage Powerbolts at level 5 until the cows come home, and rely on all my sorcery and spell pool dice to stage up the damage, and never even roll for drain.

How is this fair again?

I'm thinking the Trauma Damper should take 1 point of stress whenever it reduces damage from Drain.

I don't adjudicate mechanics based on fairness, but whether or not it hangs together in the system.

The trauma damper isn't "broken" as such and happens to be amazingly useful to mages. It's like almost every other samurai has a smartlink? Every other combat mage has a trauma damper.

And as it has been revealed that you never repair stress fully, I think your proposed fix is just a little brutal. Once bioware acquires a stress point, it can never be repaired to "new" short of removing and replacing it.

Not a rule I necessarily agree with, but it is canon as such.

-Siege

It is? Where is this mentioned?

Edit: Oh, wow. I see now. pg. 131, M&M - "Once a bioware item has taken damage, its Stress Points can never be reduced below 1."

Ouch.

IIRC, there's a certain kind of nanite - check Man & Machine - that will repair any stress points that have been incured.

Hi, I saw "munchfest" and "drain" and just had to reply. First of all, as much as it's creative to use cyber with magic, I would almost always prefer not to just for sake of character building.... Yet character building seems to inevitably go out the window if you're building a munchkin. That being said, here is what I think the best way to deal with the drain is: Obviously exceptional willpower is a start, and to get one more point of will, albino is an acceptable flaw. Starting with 8 willpower seems good, and does help, but the clincher if that isn't enough, is shapeshifter. Regeneration makes almost any spell at even a ridiculously high damage level (say simultanious lightning bolts, deadly, and force 6....) easy to soak... Not only that, but you don't need to soak it. So a tiger mountain shaman with a specialization in spell casting is about as tough as I've seen.
I'd love to see more though.

I just house rule that it doesn't affect drain.

And it's slightly easier to cast mid-level spells, and high-level spells; you only have to stage down things to Light, that's two less successes you need.
However, in all of these cases, it's still "slightly". Broken? I'd say not.

~J

I also don't really see the problem with this piece of Bioware. It seems to me to be a relatively fair trade off for losing a point of Magic.

Actually, a Force: 5, L Damage Stunbolt has a Drain code of 1L - although a natural 1 is still treated as a failure. So your mage (who I assume has a 6 Willpower) has to avoid rolling more than 5 1's with 6 dice to actually take Drain from casting it.

The Trauma Dampener is a nifty piece of 'ware, one of the few bioware items that I would even consider for an awakened character, but its advantages are hardly game-breaking.

No, you know what's nasty? Anything with Regeneration and Hell Blast. Has the highest Drain in the game. So what if it knocks you out? You're back up next round anyway!

* Vampire Mage casts Hell Blast, passes out.
*next combat round*
* Vampire Mage springs back up, rinse, repeat.

That is broken.

Where, exactly, does it say that regeneration works against stun damage?

If you take deadly, it's gone next turn. Or, at least, that's how it's being read for SR2 rules. I agree, it shouldn't be, but by those house rules, it's more broken than a Damper on a Combat Mage.

And it isn't even something I'd do. That's just wrong. Kill everybody with no thought about what happens to you.

On second thought... If the Vamp Mage were to take it at a level higher than his Magic Rating, Physical Drain, thusly inducing the Regen if he manages to stage it to S or lower. No staging and he better pray that he doesn't roll a one.

SR3 rules are very explicit that deadly physical damage is what is regenerated. Shapeshifter magicians specificly don't regenerate on a 1 or 2 on the d6 roll if the damage came from drain.

SR2 rules for Regen (Critters section, Corebook) state no Regen on Stun, after rereading.

Curse you, GM! Snuffed us out so many times when we used things like the butts of our guns to hit Vampires!

However, the idea of a Vamp Mage taking a spell at higher than his M. Rating, with a good enough Body to stage it down to S, can just "pop back up" next round. Broke.

Although, I think I'll check all references on Drain to see if it changes anything for Regen in beings besides Shapeshifters. Never hurts to check.

S'why you don't frag with a vampire.

How did one of those famous quotes go? "If it's a fair fight, you fragged up somewhere?"

-Siege

No, you only frag with a vampire if you have wooden stakes, fire, or explosives (or silver, if it's a Banshee). ;p

Now, if it's a Dzoo Noo Qua or Wendigo... You run for your fragging life.

For what it's worth, shapeshifter regeneration seems to imply that it will heal physical damage over time (specificly, physical drain heals 1 box per minute). There may be some implication that stun damage heals instantly or something that I'm missing.

Dude, I refer you to another quote:

"Big, bad and belt-fed"

-Siege

In 3ed rules of shapeshifters, it never explicitly states that a Shapeshifter's regen works on Stun... but it also does not prohibit it. It would seem kinda silly that they can recover from getting shot in the gut with a shot gun but then take 3 hours to get over the punch to the gut.

I would allow Vamps and Shapeshifter Magicians to regen drain at normal rate, 1 box per minute at the max. Why? Becuase Shapeshifters get the short end of the stick, and Vamp's fluctuating essence can kill their magic abilities pretty quick (even though feeding allows you to regain that lost essence, the lost magic is gone).

As for fighting Regenerating critters, "Headshots, headshots, headshots"

Back on topic:
A loss of one magic point isn't that crippling for the effects of a trauma dampner. Personally, I like combat mages with Pain Editors. The bonus dice of willpower while active, and ignoring any drain penalties is quiet useful. Most mages I see being played chose to lose a point or two of magic to augmentation, it allows them a lot more flexibility, at the cost of 1 dice of spell pool and physical drain for Force 6 (which can just be taken as either exlusive or fetish and be fine)

Damn, and I thought that playing a shapeshifter was a backwards way to munchkin a kick-ass mage...

Since I'm usually the cybered-up character who can quote M&M word-for-word, I'm amazed that I didn't consider the trauma dampener. Duh me.


Looks like the next uber-mage will be seeing his streetdoc sometime real soon now.

L

Indeed. To become a Vampire/Banshee/Dzoo Noo Qua/whatever else, your Essence is drained, thusly making it 0. However, then, the HMHVV kicks in and revives you, but you need to drain others to stay alive.

I don't think that they lose M. Rating if their Essence drops below it, otherwise their magic would suffer the moment the become a Vamp. Roll 2D6, IIRC, to figure your starting Essence as a Vamp. Roll anything below a 6 and your Magic suffers. I doubt it goes that way.

Vampires are magical creatures in and of themselves, and not (meta)human magical, I mean magical/mythical/awakened. I doubt the M. Rating rule applies to them, seeing also as how it's really hard to get any 'ware in them.

If you've got any in you when you're turned, you painfully excrete it from your body for the next day or so. Very painfully. Forced out through the pores in your skin and such. Yum, huh?

M&M pg. 75
"These substances do not aid in repairing the trauma. but they may keep the the user alive and concious long enough for him to receive medical help."

Guys, when the effects of the substances wears off, all of the damage that was reduced bty the trauma will come back. SO let's say that the mage fails a resistance test for 30 or so light stun drains. That mage looks fine and dandy... until the damper wears off and needs the body to rest and heal to replenish it's abilities to function. BOOM! Automatically inflict 30 boxes of stun.

GM, "Suddenly your head explodes for some unknown reason."

They forgot the time limit in the rules. The damage comes back. Eccessive abuse of the damper/spells would justify the GM to give the player a sleeping flaw if they wish to live.

In the sixth world, the golden rule still exists. Nature always wins.

Heh, you must be stoned.

No, the damage will never ever come back. The 'flavor' text you mention is before the Game Mechanics section for one, and secondly, the trauma they are talking about is "physical trauma" as mentioned in the sentence directly before it. Not mental strain.

They didn't forget to put a time limit in the book, there's not suppose to be a time limit.

Sphynx

Sorry, I have _never_ seen a note on a "time limit" for the trauma damper.

Which, I gotta admit...would be a hell of a way to pass a Friday night.

Get the party mage just drunk enough to lose count and to start casting spells.

Take bets if (or when) her head explodes.

Fun and educational!

-Siege

Nope, no time limit on Damper... There is one on the Adrenaline Pump, but that's for how long it lasts until you suffer some D stun of a slightly high level (and the people who usually take this have no Willpower anyways, so...).

So in any case, if you have a Trauma Damper, and overflow rules aren't in effect for what ever reason (or there's just nothing there to stage the damage any higher), you pretty much CAN'T be taken down by a single hit, right?

Basically, yes.

Which is why they had to install overdamage rules because people were walking away from tac-nukes, ground zero.

-Siege

But if there's nothing to stage the damage up, you're scott-free.

*sigh*

Yes.

-Siege

i always enjoyed combining a Trauma Dampner and with a Platlet Factory, and 1 lvl of the Pain Resistence edge. Take a medium wound physical wound and it turns into a light physical and a light stun, whcih thanks to your pain resistence, you don't suffer from.


As for the Vamp comment in Critters it states "and the transformation into a vampire sometimes unlocks hidden magical potentail". Meaning that post infection, they gain the ability to cast magic.

If you were a Mage before the transformation, you are SOL, because for a brief time, while you were not infected, your Essence was at 0, meaning all your magic went bye bye.

Just because you go Vamp doesn't mean you suddenly get Magic. And, no, just because you go Vamp doesn't mean any Magic you had goes away. Most Vampire Mages were Mages in the first place. How do you think they stayed a Mage? By surviving the original transformation process, duh.

Oh, and the Factory with a Damper has saved me so many times... One character I really have for fun in the sun is a Troll Bodyguard. Think 20 Body and Magical Theory. Bullet barrier? Pshaw! Roll MT, fire at barrier because you figure it's there. Break barrier, knock Mage out.

Oh, and he only uses Gel ammo. Doesn't like killing, just likes to solve things quickly. And by quickly he means with an Assault Rifle loaded with Gel rounds.

Also figure in the Heavy Security Armor that he's got a permit for... Has a Patron Corp. =D

Thing is, that infection with HMHVV only occurs when the body is at 0 essence. Hence the vampire has the option of turning a drained victim or just leaving the lifeless corpse sitting there.

When a vampire drains your essence, you lose magic. Essence Loss= Magic loss, it doesn't matter that down the line they might change you into a vampire, you are still losing magic and therefor losing essence.

In critters pg 46 it specifically states that becoming a vampire can give a person a chance to unlock their magical abilities. They aren't just automatically granted the ability to cast spells and what not, they have to learn the ropes, use their karma to buy the spells and skills, but at the moment they have the potential to become a mage. Many squander that ability, either through not learning or letting their essence fall so low that it doesn't matter.

Face it, essence loss, regardless of the source leads to Magic Loss. To become a vampire, you must loss ALL your essence. Hence, no magic should survive the process of becoming a vampire.

(On a side note, Ghouls who are afflicted with a strain of HMHVV also lose magic because of their essence loss).

Back on Topic

I still think that Pain Editors are a much more effective device for combat mage since you aren't affected by drain until you start to turn it into physical damage (remember, you can't pass out while your pain editor is active). Just make sure you have a Bio Monitor (external of course, don't want to lose 2 Magic pts to augmentation) to make sure you don't end up frying yourself to death with drain.

I don't see how the essence loss = magic loss rules can apply to vampires.

What is the newly turned vampires unlocked magical rating? 1, 6, 12????

Every month the vampire loses a point of essence, thus by your reasoning a point of magic. The vampire would need to initiate once a month just to maintain his magic rating. Soon the vampire won't earn enough karma to do so, as the cost of initiation continues to rise. Soon there will be NO vampire magicians, much less the old, powerful spell slingers.