Full Version: Mantid Spirits
I don't seem to recall reading this before. How do mantids gather amongst themselves? Do they establish "hives" like other insect spirits, or are they more loosely structured? The only examples I've seen are the gangs (of a sort) in Burning Bright or the story "A Plague of Demons" in the Into the Shadows collection. Do you think they operate in smaller groups? Or do they actually have a single queen and a hive/nest hidden somewhere? Thanks.
They don't, for the most part. Mantids as described in Bug City are solitary or in small groups, and prey on other bug spirits. Queens especially can't stand each other, and are always full flesh-form. So you'd get a queen and a few drones and that's it.
-karma
-karma
So if a queen died, would one of those servants somehow "become" a queen so that particular group could survive? Or would the other mantids just die with the queen, or shortly after?
Mantids don't have "queens" like hive insects. Being solitary insects they have "mothers", which is just about the same thing with different organization. All female mantids are mothers, equally capable of reproduction. The only servants are the males, who are more docile less intelligent than the females.
Awesome. Thanks for the clarification, hyzmarca. That really helps me out with the updating of our campaign. 
| QUOTE (Schaeffer) |
| The only examples I've seen are the gangs (of a sort) in Burning Bright or the story "A Plague of Demons" in the Into the Shadows collection. Do you think they operate in smaller groups? Or do they actually have a single queen and a hive/nest hidden somewhere? Thanks. |
Check Desolation Angels (Loose Alliances)
The mantids are friendlier towards metahumanity usually hunting other bugs. Get between them and the target and you're otast. work towards the same and they are powerful allies-the problem is they may decide to convert a female in your group or eat a male.
The groups seme to be made up of females who are good merges, and can assume either form-mantid or metahuman. males turned are just mantids. Many females are the sort of person who wants an out form the owlrd but they have been known to convert an unwilling woman if she's in a position they want.
The groups seme to be made up of females who are good merges, and can assume either form-mantid or metahuman. males turned are just mantids. Many females are the sort of person who wants an out form the owlrd but they have been known to convert an unwilling woman if she's in a position they want.
It's important to note that while they are technically friendlier towards metahumanity than the rest of the bug spirits, they have a completely alien mindset. They are still bugs, after all, and think differently.
-karma
-karma
Just because Hestaby and I both don't think the Tir should be getting its nose all up in other people's business, it don't exactly make us best friends. Same way here. Alien mindset point is valid, but even without it there's no reason to think mantids are "friendly", whatever Ms. Bitten may say.
~J
~J
| QUOTE (toturi) | ||
Check Desolation Angels (Loose Alliances) |
More importantly than the operatives is the Empowerment Coalition.
| QUOTE (Kagetenshi) |
| Just because Hestaby and I both don't think the Tir should be getting its nose all up in other people's business, it don't exactly make us best friends. Same way here. Alien mindset point is valid, but even without it there's no reason to think mantids are "friendly", whatever Ms. Bitten may say. ~J |
Look at it this way. Just because you don't like regular bug spirits, does that make you happy when an even more dangerous creature comes along and uses you as a tool to attack them with?
Mantids are not your friends.
Incidentally, in SM you get the new Nymph mantid spirits. They're listed as being rare, but having a sort of delphic oracle status amongst the mantids. So they have some sort of society, they're just not family types.
Yeah. Being "friendlier towards humanity" than the other bug spirits isn't saying much.
The friend of my enemy, is my enemy.
The enemy of my friend, is my enemy.
The enemy of my enemy...
The key point is that while regular Insect Spirits(from MITS, I don't have SM yet) look upon meta-humanity as a take-over target, Mantids do so to a lesser extent and look upon the other Insects as prey. Now the last time I looked, if you don't want pests in your house, you might want to stop killing their predators.
The enemy of my friend, is my enemy.
The enemy of my enemy...
The key point is that while regular Insect Spirits(from MITS, I don't have SM yet) look upon meta-humanity as a take-over target, Mantids do so to a lesser extent and look upon the other Insects as prey. Now the last time I looked, if you don't want pests in your house, you might want to stop killing their predators.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| The enemy of my enemy... |
is my enemy's enemy, nothing more, nothing less.
I really think that applies in this case.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| The key point is that while regular Insect Spirits(from MITS, I don't have SM yet) look upon meta-humanity as a take-over target, Mantids do so to a lesser extent and look upon the other Insects as prey. |
Key words being to a lesser extent. They still see humans as nothing more than food.
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| Now the last time I looked, if you don't want pests in your house, you might want to stop killing their predators. |
If I sit on an mantis and it just gives me a dirty look when I get up (this really happened, btw), I'm not going to let it roam the house just because it may also eat another species of insect first. I'm going to find something that will kill the motherfucker for good.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| Now the last time I looked, if you don't want pests in your house, you might want to stop killing their predators. |
Not if their predators are your predators, too.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| The friend of my enemy, is my enemy. The enemy of my friend, is my enemy. The enemy of my enemy... The key point is that while regular Insect Spirits(from MITS, I don't have SM yet) look upon meta-humanity as a take-over target, Mantids do so to a lesser extent and look upon the other Insects as prey. Now the last time I looked, if you don't want pests in your house, you might want to stop killing their predators. |
sort of. Mantids' main target is other bugs, not metahumanity. meaning if you find a group of Mantids it is not as terrible as finding a Termite Lair in your condo complex' basement. BUT they are not human and they will view you as usable or even expendable in their goals without any guilt the same way you would view the gun on your hip a usable tool.
They also may decide they will meet their goals better if you become one of them (if a woman) or one of their playmates (if male). They won't ask your feelings on the matter and not give a darn about your friends, your family or yourl ife because it is what they want. Think of them as the bitchy queens of your high school who just care what they want and the rest of you can just make way for them.
Another problem, I think, with mantids, is the fact that they cannot exist on our plane without preying upon humanity. They need human bodies to "step through" right? The spirit uses a meat body as its physical shell, and therefore someone has to die. So even though their main diet/meal of choice are other bugs, humanity works in a pinch as a snack or a vessel. They can't be trusted, ultimately.
In our old campaign, the team became connected to a mantid group when one of our number was taken to a UB clinic for medical attention. We had no idea at the time what was going on in the background. When the character dissappeared and later returned, all better, we figured (IC) that she'd simply faded for a bit to escape any heat coming down from the situation which put her in the clinic in the first place. She then became involved with our team's shaman. Even after he discovered her true nature, he stuck with her, saying to the GM that although the original persona was gone, the mantid version was still a sentient being, and since it hadn't hurt him or any of the team, and since it was an enemy of our (growing) enemy, he considered it an ally/friend.
For about 6+ game years, the team had a mantid in its ranks from time to time, and the mundanes never knew. Masking kept it secret from other mage types. The whole thing ended when A) the mantids began using the team for their own ends B) the rest of the team realized it. It all culminated in a big battle (go figure), and in the end the surviving team members went their separate ways.
I guess my long winded point is, no matter what, humanity is a pawn to the mantids at best, cattle at worst, and the bugs can't be trusted at all.
In our old campaign, the team became connected to a mantid group when one of our number was taken to a UB clinic for medical attention. We had no idea at the time what was going on in the background. When the character dissappeared and later returned, all better, we figured (IC) that she'd simply faded for a bit to escape any heat coming down from the situation which put her in the clinic in the first place. She then became involved with our team's shaman. Even after he discovered her true nature, he stuck with her, saying to the GM that although the original persona was gone, the mantid version was still a sentient being, and since it hadn't hurt him or any of the team, and since it was an enemy of our (growing) enemy, he considered it an ally/friend.
For about 6+ game years, the team had a mantid in its ranks from time to time, and the mundanes never knew. Masking kept it secret from other mage types. The whole thing ended when A) the mantids began using the team for their own ends B) the rest of the team realized it. It all culminated in a big battle (go figure), and in the end the surviving team members went their separate ways.
I guess my long winded point is, no matter what, humanity is a pawn to the mantids at best, cattle at worst, and the bugs can't be trusted at all.
| QUOTE (Schaeffer @ Aug 24 2006, 06:54 AM) |
| Another problem, I think, with mantids, is the fact that they cannot exist on our plane without preying upon humanity. They need human bodies to "step through" right? |
No. They can use other spirits, too.
Well, for males anyway.
| QUOTE (SL James) | ||
No. They can use other spirits, too. Well, for males anyway. |
| QUOTE (Bug City p.141; Magic in the Shadows p.131) |
The investment must be made into a human host body of the same sex as the Mantis spirit created. |
Goddamn it.
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| I guess my long winded point is, no matter what, humanity is a pawn to the mantids at best, cattle at worst, and the bugs can't be trusted at all. |
Uh, yeah. That is a lot of peoples' main point.
Great! I'm in good company, then.
I'm in good company, then.
If I recall correctly, Insect Spirits do not necessarily require meta-humans to "cross over". They generally only require hosts.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| The friend of my enemy, is my enemy. The enemy of my friend, is my enemy. The enemy of my enemy... The key point is that while regular Insect Spirits(from MITS, I don't have SM yet) look upon meta-humanity as a take-over target, Mantids do so to a lesser extent and look upon the other Insects as prey. Now the last time I looked, if you don't want pests in your house, you might want to stop killing their predators. |
What happens when the rest of the bugs (as long as I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony) are gone? Would Mantids stop there?
Reminds me of that saying "First they came for the jews, and I did nothing, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I did nothing because I was not a Catholic. etc, etc, etc and when they came for me, there was no one left to etc etc."
That's an interesting question, Shansu. Would they start eating humanity exclusively, or take their ball, go home, and perhaps try to find bugs in some other plane?
My vote would be that they'd start a change in diet.
My vote would be that they'd start a change in diet.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) | ||||||
|
More proof here:
| QUOTE (Street Magic @ p.151) |
| Unusually for insect spirits, mantids always enforce gender selection in their vessels; a male’s (invariably caretakers and workers) primary purpose is to serve as a mate and then as sustenance for “females” (soldiers, scouts, and nymphs). |
Other interesting things to note about Mantids:
| QUOTE (ibid.) |
| While they do form nests, mantids do not have queens or mothers, instead possessing a singular means of reproducing: eating other insect spirits.... All “female” mantid spirits possess the power of Energy Drain...Mantids drain Force from other inspect spirits by eating them. Force points consumed by the mantid in this manner can be...stored internally in what amounts to an “astral womb.” When the accumulated stored Force equals the mantid’s own, it gives “birth” to a full-grown mantid spirit of equal Force—which may then inhabit a living vessel. |
It's been found that "real" female Chinese mantids will not eat their mates' heads if they are well-fed and don't have any nosy lab researchers breathing down their necks during the mating. Instead, an elaborate courtship ritual occurs. Below is some speculation as to why this might be:
| QUOTE ("Dr. Beetle") |
| ...the study by Liske and Davis suggests that mantises will naturally follow their instinct to pounce on any small moving object, especially when hungry. They need a 'one tracked mind' with fast reflexes to obtain prey - they don't have a web to help them and they cannot fly swiftly after their prey. Under natural conditions, it would seem sensible for them to evolve a courtship behavior that then allows their own kind to turn off the 'pounce and eat' instinct from a safe distance. Such an instinct would be difficult to turn off when hungry or starved under artificial laboratory conditions, but under natural conditions the courtship would allow non-violent mating to occur. A further part of the courtship behavior might be that if the female does not participate in the courtship display, the male would know not to approach. If however the male is 'desperate' or confined in the laboratory, it may have no choice but to try and approach the female, if it really wants to mate. It could not fly off to try another female. It would have to approach the unresponsive female, but this time cautiously, because it senses the risk of being mistaken as food. |
There's a lesson in this for all you guys out there: No matter how desperate or impatient you are to mate with a female, always take some time to use foreplay - and make sure the female responds favorably to it - before attempting the act. Otherwise, she might bite your head off.
EDIT: Here's my source on mantid mating behavior.
| QUOTE (Schaeffer) |
| That's an interesting question, Shansu. Would they start eating humanity exclusively, or take their ball, go home, and perhaps try to find bugs in some other plane? My vote would be that they'd start a change in diet. |
they'd make whichever adaptation took the least effort, neh? (I had a chemistry teacher who used to tell us that everything in nature happend because it was easier that way. We are only alive because it's easier for chemistry to let us live rather than kill us. That drives my uber Christian parents nuts.)
| QUOTE (Shanshu Freeman @ Aug 25 2006, 10:05 AM) | ||
What happens when the rest of the bugs (as long as I'm dreaming, I'd like a pony) are gone? Would Mantids stop there? Reminds me of that saying "First they came for the jews, and I did nothing, because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Catholics, and I did nothing because I was not a Catholic. etc, etc, etc and when they came for me, there was no one left to etc etc." |
Well, you are assuming the Insects think like humans. Moreover, only metahumans will want to wipe out another segment of humanity. Never seen one insect species eat another into extinction yet.
FanGirl's quote FTW.
| QUOTE (toturi) |
| [QUOTE=Shanshu Freeman,Aug 25 2006, 10:05 AM] Well, you are assuming the Insects think like humans. Moreover, only metahumans will want to wipe out another segment of humanity. Never seen one insect species eat another into extinction yet. FanGirl's quote FTW. |
Sure they do. Constantly. They don't set out going 'hey, let's wipe them out', they go 'hey, that looks tasty. That looks tasty too!' and eventually bam, the whole species is wiped out. Animal, insects, whatever: once the delicate balance goes, entire species can disappear very easily. It happens most notably in cases of introduced species (particularly introduced species of wasp or ant), but it happens 'in the wild' as well (almost certainly more frequently, too).
| QUOTE (FanGirl @ Aug 24 2006, 09:25 PM) | ||||
More proof here:
Other interesting things to note about Mantids:
|
Actually, note that there is nothing in the section about Mantis spirits in SR4 having to use humans. Note the use of the word may, when it states that, "When the accumulated stored Force equals the mantid’s own, it gives “birth” to a full-grown mantid spirit of equal Force—which may then inhabit a living vessel*."
*emphasis mine.
Personally, I think mantids kick ass (IRL and in SR), especially when I saw photos of one eating a hummingbird (there's another even better story if you Google around) and reading about someone battling a 10" mantis with a tennis racket. Plus there was my own battle with a mantis that left me freaked out and it pissed off when I jumped on my bed and it didn't die when I landed on it.
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