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GrinderTheTroll
I don't recall reading this in SR4.core, but does cyberware require the host to be alive for it to function? If the target I need to hack dies, what hopes do I have of getting the paydata inside his head?

Any thoughts?
Jaid
i'm not aware of anything specific, but i would imagine it would still be there.

i mean, heck, if i pull the plug on my computer right now, and plug it in 5 minutes from now, it will still have any data i stored on it.... i see no reason why technology would go backwards over the next 65 years.
hobgoblin
the way that cyberware is said to be powered have had many versions, but i dont think SR4 supplies one, yet.

imho, there most likely is a way to boot up a implant comlink or similar without it being attached to a operational nervous system, this for diagnostics and testing.

atleast i would not make it much of a problem for a group, maybe a matrix search to figure out where said model cyberware hides the external power connectors and how to get the wireless connection going if its set not not turn on right after boot.
FanGirl
There's a short story in Runner Havens in which Maurice "The Butcher" Bigio tells the tale of how he removed a young hacker's headware memory with a knife, a pair of needlenose pliers, and a good grip on the unfortunate lad's head. The hacker did not survive, but the paydata Butcher was looking for presumably did, so I would say that data stored in an implanted comm does indeed survive its bearer's death.
dog_xinu
depends on what cyberware you are talking about. Memory (MP) can be hacked once they get power again. But others you cant. Where the GM draws the line will vary.


just my opinion... from a true geek.
Ancient History
Unless the cyberware was damaged or corrupted, there's no reason the data should not be recoverable.
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Unless the cyberware was damaged or corrupted, there's no reason the data should not be recoverable.

Considering how filigrane and delicate nano-installed systems, layerd between skull and brain would be, destroying it by ripping it out seems fairly certain.
Ancient History
"Filigrane?" I wouldn't say that. nyahnyah.gif

Anyway, that was way back in the day. For all you know, it was just a wafer of protein memory in a sheath of bio-friendly plastic attached to the skull with a couple of screws. cyber.gif
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Ancient History)
"Filigrane?" I wouldn't say that.

Need... less tea... need... more sleep... dead.gif

Well, then 'filigree', if you like the modern form.
Ancient History
It's not the form, per se, I just don't quite grasp its relevance. Do you see headware memory as an ornate web of circuits or something?
Schaeffer
Seems like there was a published run where the team had to recover the headware memory of someone, and their corpse was in a ghoul's nest.
GrinderTheTroll
Good answers so far, but I should have been more specific. What I was thinking is, much after a PC powers down, you can't access the storage until it's powered back up.

Jumpercables anyone?
Inu
Why am I getting the image of cyberzombies in my head?

Load someone up with over 6 essence points of cyber. They're dead, right? Has how dead they are ever been covered in canon? I've always interpreted it as 'lights are on but nobody's home'. If life support equipment is attached, the meat can be kept alive, but the brain won't make any decisions on its own. I'd be interested to know if canon has ever elaborated on 'dead'.

Anyway, here's the idea I have: cyber a dude up, install skillwires and headware memory, then run a 'ghost' -- a program that will use the memory and skillwires to make the person move around, perhaps even interact. Bam, humanoid bio-robot. Cyber-zombie!
Conskill
QUOTE (Inu @ Aug 24 2006, 11:06 PM)
Load someone up with over 6 essence points of cyber. They're dead, right? Has how dead they are ever been covered in canon? I've always interpreted it as 'lights are on but nobody's home'. If life support equipment is attached, the meat can be kept alive, but the brain won't make any decisions on its own. I'd be interested to know if canon has ever elaborated on 'dead'.

At 0 Essence, the body doesn't flat out die, the spirit tries to flee the body. A good definition of dead in most cases, but Cybermancy mucks it up a little.

A cyberzombie isn't really dead-dead, at least not in a medical sense. Their spirit and their body are being kept together with dark magic and duct tape, but the body is still more or less alive as long as it's kept on the right cocktail of drugs.
Smokeskin
QUOTE (Inu @ Aug 25 2006, 08:06 AM)
Why am I getting the image of cyberzombies in my head?

Load someone up with over 6 essence points of cyber. They're dead, right? Has how dead they are ever been covered in canon? I've always interpreted it as 'lights are on but nobody's home'. If life support equipment is attached, the meat can be kept alive, but the brain won't make any decisions on its own. I'd be interested to know if canon has ever elaborated on 'dead'.

Anyway, here's the idea I have: cyber a dude up, install skillwires and headware memory, then run a 'ghost' -- a program that will use the memory and skillwires to make the person move around, perhaps even interact. Bam, humanoid bio-robot. Cyber-zombie!

That's a really cool idea smile.gif Life support equipment doesn't have to be anything large-scale. Anything able to work the nervous system to keep the breathing reflex going will do the job. The heart is even able to operate on its own, even if you sever the connection to the nervous system it keeps going. As long as oxygenated blood is pumped around, the body should stay alive.
Samaels Ghost
But Essence is your soul and your body doesn't work period without a soul :eyeroll:

I'm all for basing implant capacity on body
Rotbart van Dainig
QUOTE (Ancient History)
Do you see headware memory as an ornate web of circuits or something?

That's one visualisation how an implant 'grown'/build by nanites might look, indeed.
Smokeskin
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)
But Essence is your soul and your body doesn't work period without a soul :eyeroll:


If you assume that the cellular machinery is dependant on a soul to function, then you're right. But that would mean that something like cells growing in a petri dish also has a soul.

If the cellular machinery can function without a soul, then a body will survive as long as there is fresh air going through the lungs and the blood is circulating.
Schaeffer
I thought cybermancy, both the magic and implants used in the process, were there to trick the spirit into sticking with the body, by convincing "it" that the poor slob was still living and breathing, and that it should stay home?
Firewall
I would rule that it depends on the cyberware. Fail-safe or fail-secure.

Fail-safe cyberware will use some persistant medium like ferrous-oxide or battery back-up. This is the important type of data that must not be lost. Even if the person dies, the data can be recovered. Well, assuming nobody put a bullet through the memory unit.

Fail-secure media (like data-locks) will be data that must never fall into the wrong hands and will probably use the body's bio-electric field to power a volatile memory unit. That way, the memory goes blank the second the central nervous system shuts down. Pull it out of the brain with pliers, it dies. Kill the courier, it dies. I suppose a CAT scan might help you and a good neuro-surgeon could apply a new power-supply before pulling it out but you might as well plug in a cyber-deck and crack it that way.

As for life. If the nerves are still working, they should be alive enough to power the memory unit.
apollo124
We actually had this kind of situation come up in a module once, I don't remember which one. The team was accused of killing this recording exec they had just had a meeting with. One of the team had the bright idea of tracking down the morgue that the body went to and stealing the data we needed. Oddly enough, this wasn't covered in the module.
So they broke in, sliced the guys head off and took it with them to decrypt later. As the GM, I allowed it and even gave them extra Karma for coming up with a unique, in-character method of getting the paydata.
kigmatzomat
Y'know follks, modern storage flash memory will generally hold data stable for months to years, depending on the environment. Barring physical destroying the memory modules, I can't see any problems recovering stored data.

Now getting transient data (the last image in a cyber eye, partially downloaded data, the last VR-sim data transmitted, etc) would be more of a challenge. Everything else should be a simple Computer Hardware check to connect the device followed by a butt simple Computer check to access the data.
Lebo77
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost)
But Essence is your soul and your body doesn't work period without a soul :eyeroll:

I'm all for basing implant capacity on body

That's a GREAT idea! Then there will be NO reason for non-magicly active chars to play non-trolls.
Charon
Is cyberware powered by the body's chemical energy?

If so, upon death you couldn't hack info from a dead body until you have restored a power supply in some way.

Much like an unplugged computer needs to be plugged back.

But aside from that I see no reason for the data to be gone unless the guy had a biomonitor programmed to wipe out all data upon death (or some such gimmick).

---

I see no reason to base Essence on a variable number, even if you decice it ain't a a matter of soul.

Having your eyes replaced is exactly as invasive, whether you are a troll or a dwarf. Same for everything else. If you have replaced 50% of you original organs plus your nervous system, it's the same whether you are big guy or a midget. You have as much humanity / soul / original parts left.
Shrike30
QUOTE (Samaels Ghost @ Aug 25 2006, 03:51 AM)
But Essence is your soul and your body doesn't work period without a soul :eyeroll:

I'm all for basing implant capacity on body

How would this make any kind of sense at all? "I'm small, so I can only have 1-2 cyberlimbs before I die, whereas a troll can have his entire body 'borged out and still be humming along happily." question.gif

The game world supports the concept of a "soul" in the form of our astral presence. Some magic users can even take their "soul" out of their body for a while, and there's an awful lot of things that can happen to your body when the "soul" is out partying that seem to imply that having it in your body is kind of important. Call it something else if you want, but the importance of Essence is a pretty core game mechanic.

I've seen rules for using cyberpsychosis that simply applied "essence cost" as a penalty to Charisma (and allowed for an unlimited "upper cap" on Charisma, as long as the effective value remained within racial norms). Essence essentially ceased to matter beyond the addiction/deadly wound/whatever else modifiers, at that point. Kind of amusing.
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