Why is it counterspelling works against spells you are not even aware of being cast, but not against spells when you are surprised?

Isn't being surprised essentially equivalent to not being aware they are being cast?

Counterspelling is a form of astral jamming (see page 176 of your hymnal). As such, it is a passive defense.

Yet it specifically states that a magician may always use counterspelling on herself, unless surprised.

Give me a MGL. I'll show you counterspelling then.

Well, here's my interpretation: You have to aim it. Can't block what you don't know about.

Yet it specifically states that in order to use counterspelling you don't necessarily have to know it is working. You are actively jamming magic in the area.

I don't have the book with me, for specific page references. But there are two places where in one it says that you don't have to be aware of a spell to counterspell it, but it also states that you can't counter spell if surprised...

Is this a contradiction?

Counterspelling should also work in a surprise situation, if declared beforehand.

Hummn, yea that's a good interpretation. The only place that it specifically states that counterspelling can't be used in surprise is also where it states that a magician can always use it on himself, even if he has not declared it.

But I suppose the question is how often do I have to declare the use of counterspelling. Can I take a free action at birth and declare fresh out of the womb that I'm always counterspelling on myself?

You don't have to aim it, you just have to use it. If you are surprised you were not ready for the attack and were not using it, otherwise you are assumed to use it.

I'd say that you can't use it even if you declared it, should you be surprised. According to the surprise rule, you can be surprised even if you are aware of an ambush, for example. Being surprised is being caught off guard, and that can happen even if your guard is up. It just means the guard slipped for a moment. There's allready modifiers for being warned, and declaring you are using counterspelling going into a situation propably means you were warned of it's danger some way. If you're surprised anyway, you shouldn't get the bennefit of it.

I think of it like this: Counterspelling requires an action to initiate, but that action is instinctual when you're in danger (via an almost, but not quite nonaction). Since it requires effort to maintain (albeit not much) it is not always active. If you're surprised you don't realize you're in danger and so cannot raise it. Using counterspelling on others is not instinctual, and so requires more concentration to start (via a free action)

I'm agreeing with McMurray on this one. Just seems to be more in tune with the wording.

Page 175

If a rule said "you can always hold a glass in your hand without dropping it, unless surprised" would you be confused? Surprise is not simple paralysis, but can include a mental flinch or shutting down of usual reflexive actions.

That said, I can certainly understand people wanting to ignore this rule.

I think page 162 of Street Magic goes a long way toward addressing the questions in this topic.

Heh, how about a preview, or a sum up for those of us who have 3.5 hours before we can go home and check your reference?

Or those of us who don't have the book yet?

The surprise rules don't work like that either. Being surprised is not an all or notthing thing. You are surprised by other characters on an individual basis.

Say 3 runners are laying in wait for two corp sec walking by on their guard route.

They all roll dice, the three runners get +6 for laying in wait and the two corp sec just roll regularly. (Reaction + intuition I think). Say the runners get 5, 4, and 2 hits. Then corp sec guards get a 1 and a 3. Then the corp sec who rolled 1 hit got surprised by everyone, the corp sec who rolled a 3 noticed the runner who rolled a 2 and can take action against him, but not against the others. So he's still up and shooting and acting as per normal. But he cannot react or take any actions that affect the two runners that rolled a 5 and a 4. Basically, if he was counterspelling nothing makes him glitch by being surprised, or kills that defense.

P. 162 SM elaborates on the part about counterspelling sometihng you are completely unaware of. I'm not sure I like the interpretation that a Magician must actively declare it on himself in order to avoid this issue, because that seems to cause Metagaming issues.

Essentially as players we don't think like runners no matter how homicidally sociopathic we may be. A 6th world mage must "declare" his counterspelling? Which takes no effort to maintain, and can work without his even noticing? Why would he not? Now I'm trying to get some people new to SR into the game, and I'm going to penalize them for not knowing this rule by stuffing manabolts down their throats and calling it surprise? No not really, I'm going to say, you are a mage, you have counterspelling, you are using it on yourself, even if you didn't say you were covering your buddies, you are protected. Or do you suggest I periodically ask my magicians, "Are you actively counterspelling?" Do I only ask in situations I think they should use it? What if I forget? When does that give away too much information...

Bah, now I'm just rambling and venting.

But I'm concerned with this contradiction, and I do believe it is a contradiction. . . I guess I'm not going to penalized surprised magicians counterspelling.