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The Jopp
Inventive use with grenades

Grenades can be detonated with a wireless command, they are also electronic devices.

Subscribe a group of grenades to your commlink (Example: Flash bangs & Teargas). Tape them to a reasonable large drone (Doberman perhaps) and let it go at full speed into a large pile of enemies.

Thatís when you detonate ALL of the grenades at once. As long as the grenades cause stun damage the drone will be unaffected. Ok, thereís a large risk that overexposure to stun might kill them so go with Flashpacks otherwise.

Send in a drone with multiple flashpacks that you flash in all directions at once.

Dump a few grenades behind you if you are pursued by guards and detonate them by wireless command when they reach the location of the grenade.

Link a Grenade and a Sensor tag (Motion sensor) together and use as mines. Agent in Grenade receives information that the tag senses motions and agent instructs grenade to detonate.

Have a drone (Doberman again) taped full with smoke grenades run around an area pumping out smoke to give cover.
hobgoblin
hmm, i would just hardwire the grenades to the drone, so that after the order is given the drone could potentialy shut down its wireless link and go kamakazie.
Samaels Ghost
How far could the explosions from grenade-mines be to set off motions sensors on other grenade mines? I see problems with setting multiple mines too close together if the motion sensor is the trigger.
Samaels Ghost
Use the mic w/select-sound filter to detonate grenades after a command word (detonate on your turn if you use a free action). Or recognize footsteps, or gunshots.
Lagomorph
If they are wireless, that means you can just hack your enemies grenades. I doubt they have their grenades subscribed to the commlink.
Dragonscript
Put a nade in a soup can with the pin pulled and have a string attacked to a door. As the door is opened, it pulls the nade out of the can...

Tape a nade into the wheel well of a vehical and tie a string to the pin of the nade and part of the tire. As the tire starts spinning...

Have a case of nades in the truck of your car with a false bottom. Half pull the pins of the nades and tie a stringe to the box from the pins. This way you can push a button and the false bottom would open and the nades fall out. As they fall out the pins would get jerked out of the nade and the nades will also scatter behind you, depending on how fast you are going. Good way to get ride of some go gangers.
kzt
QUOTE (Dragonscript)

Have a case of nades in the truck of your car with a false bottom.  Half pull the pins of the nades and tie a stringe to the box from the pins.  This way you can push a  button and the false bottom would open and the nades fall out.  As they fall out the pins would get jerked out of the nade and the nades will also scatter behind you, depending on how fast you are going.  Good way to get ride of some go gangers.

And when you go over a bump and the pin bounces out of one and mass detonates the case inside the armor envelope of your car. . . .
Shrike30
QUOTE (Lagomorph @ Aug 29 2006, 10:58 AM)
If they are wireless, that means you can just hack your enemies grenades. I doubt they have their grenades subscribed to the commlink.

You could always subscribe to them as you pull them off your belt. No need to fumble about with pins or anything else cyber.gif

Yes, I realize this is horrible for security (hack hack BOOM). Maybe have a button on the top that powers them on, requiring a manual interface of some sort before they come online?
JonathanC
Wait a minute, since when are grenades electronic devices? I missed that the first time I read through the book.
Critias
SR4, p 313.

"They may come with a built-in timer to detonate after a pre-set amount of time (usually 5 seconds), a motion-sensor set to detonate on impact, or a wireless link set to detonate upon remote command."

IIRC, most of those were options in SR3, too.
JonathanC
Ah, cool. Sounds like a good way to get around the "detonates on your initiative, next round" problem with regular grenades. My players have had a good laugh at the idea of tossing a grenade back and forth between initiative passes. smile.gif
hobgoblin
heh, just a nice friendly game of hot potato wink.gif
Dragonscript
QUOTE (kzt)
QUOTE (Dragonscript)

Have a case of nades in the truck of your car with a false bottom.† Half pull the pins of the nades and tie a stringe to the box from the pins.† This way you can push a† button and the false bottom would open and the nades fall out.† As they fall out the pins would get jerked out of the nade and the nades will also scatter behind you, depending on how fast you are going.† Good way to get ride of some go gangers.

And when you go over a bump and the pin bounces out of one and mass detonates the case inside the armor envelope of your car. . . .

only if you don't keep them in the case. You still need the spoon to fly off in order for it to arm. A modern grenade has 3 safety devices on it so i don't see why future grenades will have any less.

Anyway, the OP wanted inventive uses not safe uses.
Shrike30
If you're trying to make the car thing work, just have the timer set up to activate when a wireless signal is sent... the same signal that opens the trapdoor. You could also ripple-time the grenades, setting them for a range of times from 1-5 seconds, making the chunk of road where you dropped them pretty damn dangerous.

The explosions would probably fling the undetonated grenades around pretty far. Not the kind of thing you'd want to use downtown, unless you don't care about bystander bodycount.
Lagomorph
QUOTE (Shrike30)
QUOTE (Lagomorph @ Aug 29 2006, 10:58 AM)
If they are wireless, that means you can just hack your enemies grenades. I doubt they have their grenades subscribed to the commlink.

You could always subscribe to them as you pull them off your belt. No need to fumble about with pins or anything else cyber.gif

Yes, I realize this is horrible for security (hack hack BOOM). Maybe have a button on the top that powers them on, requiring a manual interface of some sort before they come online?

Yeah, but that means you have unsubscribed and hackable grenades sitting on your belt eek.gif And that's assuming you can't hack something thats subscribed, if you can hack subscribed items as well, no grenade would be safe.

Though I do agree, they should need to be powered on or something before being wireless. They wouldn't be wireless and armed at all times, thats just a mistake waiting to happen.

Though, I think it would be awesome to have an subscribed ARO on the grenade with it's timer, so you know where it is and when it's going off via AR.
Aaron
If one designs the grenade such that the pin impedes the electronics, then the on-board computer will not be active until said pin is pulled.

Imagine, if you will: you pull the grenade off of your belt, then pull the pin and toss it. As the grenade flies through the air, an AR button marked "detonate" appears on your image link, with a thin line connecting it to the grenade itself.
kzt
QUOTE (Dragonscript)

only if you don't keep them in the case.  You still need the spoon to fly off in order for it to arm.  A modern grenade has 3 safety devices on it so i don't see why future grenades will have any less.

Anyway, the OP wanted inventive uses not safe uses.


The few frag grenades I ever used won't exactly work that way. All the grenades are in fiber canisters inside the case. You have to peel the tape, remove them from the fiber, flip them over and remove the safety clip before you worry about the pin. And then you have to pull the pin really hard (it's split into a T), unless you decided to do something crazy like straightening the pin with pliers. So by the point you can play games with the pin you have already defeated a bunch of the things that make them safe in transport.

If you have straightened the pin so a short drop can pull it out the opportunities for excitement seem excellent.

Cabral
QUOTE (JonathanC)
Wait a minute, since when are grenades electronic devices? I missed that the first time I read through the book.

In SR4, paper clips are electronic devices wink.gif
Lagomorph
Well the benefit of having an electronic needle, is that it is infact possible to find it in a haystack now.
Moon-Hawk
Well sure, but finding the needle's ARO among all of the AROs generated by the RFID'd hay is like trying to find a needle in a haystack! biggrin.gif
Smokeskin
QUOTE (kzt)
The few frag grenades I ever used won't exactly work that way. All the grenades are in fiber canisters inside the case. You have to peel the tape, remove them from the fiber, flip them over and remove the safety clip before you worry about the pin. And then you have to pull the pin really hard (it's split into a T), unless you decided to do something crazy like straightening the pin with pliers. So by the point you can play games with the pin you have already defeated a bunch of the things that make them safe in transport.

If you have straightened the pin so a short drop can pull it out the opportunities for excitement seem excellent.

Let's hope you won't need one of those grenades in a hurry wink.gif But I see the point of it, the T-pin system sounds like it could be pulled with just sheer force, which could rather easily happen if the pin snagged on something.

The frags I've used, you had to first twist the pin-ring with quite a lot of force and then pull it. You can't pull it out by sheer force (your webbing probably tears before the pin breaks), and no need for additional safety clips.
kzt
QUOTE (Smokeskin)

The frags I've used, you had to first twist the pin-ring with quite a lot of force and then pull it. You can't pull it out by sheer force (your webbing probably tears before the pin breaks), and no need for additional safety clips.

It's been a long time. I remember having to twist pull (so much for pulling it with your teeth), but the pin was like a cotter pin but with both ends bent out so it formed a 'T'. But I remember there being some sort of safety clip on the spoon that you had to take off.

Like the one show here: http://www.martin-electronics.com/images/m213.jpg

I've noticed that people who actually carried them around in combat tended to be quite careful with them. Often willing to sacrifice ease of use for the safety of knowing it won't go boom at the wrong moment by taping them. I've noticed current generation of 3rd party LBE uses fully enclosed containers for frags due to this.
Shrike30
I'm sure some of the early users of grenades (hell, probably some of the current ones) straightened out the pins in order to make it really easy to whip out a grenade and toss it wherever they wanted.

I'm sure, after a few of them managed to blow themselves up while belly-crawling or rolling over a log (and managing to drag the pin out in the process), that people got pretty serious about hammering in the "safe handling of a grenade" doctrine.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Aaron)
If one designs the grenade such that the pin impedes the electronics, then the on-board computer will not be active until said pin is pulled.

Imagine, if you will: you pull the grenade off of your belt, then pull the pin and toss it. As the grenade flies through the air, an AR button marked "detonate" appears on your image link, with a thin line connecting it to the grenade itself.

yep, having a mechanical/physical cut off would be the most practical.
that way you can have the genade's control interface in the corner and maybe reset it for timer or similar with a thought (trode or jack required).

then pull the pin, throw (at this time the classical handle flies away and the circuit for the detonater is completed. if on time then it starts at said moment allso), and while in midflight you may well detonate if needed.

hmm, i guess one could in theory calculate the distance the grenade have traveld by using the radiosignal. could one have a airburst handgrenade if one had access to some way to calculate range to target? then just feed this data to the grenade and when traveled, send the detonation code.

a physical security option should allways trump a electronic one when available, even more so if wireless (as in, if its physicaly set to safe, no electronic messing around should result in triggering). and only a silly.gif person would remove all physical security from a grenade.
Tekumel
QUOTE (kzt)
QUOTE (Dragonscript)

Have a case of nades in the truck of your car with a false bottom.  Half pull the pins of the nades and tie a stringe to the box from the pins.  This way you can push a  button and the false bottom would open and the nades fall out.  As they fall out the pins would get jerked out of the nade and the nades will also scatter behind you, depending on how fast you are going.  Good way to get ride of some go gangers.

And when you go over a bump and the pin bounces out of one and mass detonates the case inside the armor envelope of your car. . . .

Well...just hope DocWagon brought an Old El Paso jar to put your remains in.
laughingowl
Well the 'gas 'nades' and a drone AI has used to very nice effectiveness.

Her pride and joy Kitty (Steel Lynx repaired/rebuilt) has had two custom made containers added to the bottom of her for gas nades.

While perhaps 'technically' breaking the rules of 1 hardpoint per 3 body, the GM agreed with me since not actually 'targetting' and firing but basically strapped on it a somewhat sheltered place (so she can crash through doors), they dont need a 'hardpoint' and he felt I was being very reasonably with the 'two' limit.

Hardwired the cases into her control so she electronically detonates them, slows down the loading process, but then aint (planning) on loading her 'in combat'....

But When Kitty Crashes through your door and triggers one of the grenades, Makes a pretty good impression smile.gif
BlackHat
QUOTE (laughingowl)
... had two custom made containers added to the bottom of her for gas nades....

...When Kitty Crashes through your door and triggers one of the grenades, Makes a pretty good impression....

GM: "So this kitty-cat bursts into the room, lifts a leg, and starts spraying gas out of its butt."
Players: o.O
GM: "Muahahaha"
Shrike30
Oh, good lord... I'm trying to keep from laughing so loudly my boss comes over to ask what I'm doing. rotfl.gif

I am so going to use a "cat drone" or cybercat like this in the future...
hobgoblin
QUOTE (BlackHat)
QUOTE (laughingowl @ Aug 30 2006, 09:04 PM)
... had two custom made containers added to the bottom of her for gas nades....

...When Kitty Crashes through your door and triggers one of the grenades, Makes a pretty good impression....

GM: "So this kitty-cat bursts into the room, lifts a leg, and starts spraying gas out of its butt."
Players: o.O
GM: "Muahahaha"

heh, reminds me of those yipping-doom geneticly engineered puppies that showed up in a "dirty pair" comic i have here somwhere. basicly you pull their ears to arm them and then made them run towards their target. then boom, a big fireball...
Lagomorph
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk)
Well sure, but finding the needle's ARO among all of the AROs generated by the RFID'd hay is like trying to find a needle in a haystack! biggrin.gif

At least this way you can use the scan program wink.gif
BlackHat
QUOTE (Lagomorph)
QUOTE (Moon-Hawk @ Aug 29 2006, 10:42 PM)
Well sure, but finding the needle's ARO among all of the AROs generated by the RFID'd hay is like trying to find a needle in a haystack!  biggrin.gif

At least this way you can use the scan program wink.gif

Enter the needle that runs a stealth program!
hobgoblin
and is running in hidden mode?
Da9iel
Wouldn't be a needle hidden in a haystack if it wasn't!
BlackHat
Yeah, at this point, I'm thinking it would be a lot easier to use a cyberscanner to find the thing.
cx2
It's reasonable to assume that commlinks have a filter option for AR. It's even easily conceivable that you could define the filter parameters manually, like search engines or database queries. Therefore you would simply set it to hide all AROs except your grenades.
warrior_allanon
MGL 6 loaded with 5 splash grenades and one white phosphorus, the splash grenades loaded with liquid propane

Can you say FAE biggrin.gif
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