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Critters sometimes have the paranatural ability to suck essense.

As most of us all know.

We most likely know that Magic is related to Essence.

So here is where my question comes in. What magic attribute does a magical vampire have. Is there anything out there that has gone over this. I feel there probably is and I just haven't seen it.
A vampire starts out with whatever magic attribute he or she had before they became a vampire (or, if the HMHVV awakened the character, whatever magic rating he or she 'should' have had before)
That's how I rule it too. I think that Vamps are an exception to the rule whereby Magic Rating loss is tied to Essence loss. Otherwise there would be very few awakened vampires.

It states in canon (somewhere?) that there is a high ratio of awakened Vampires. This can partially be explained by the actual turning 'unlocking magical potential', but this cannot be the sole reason.
IIRC, and this is from a long ways back, one ex-GM of mine used a floating level. Basically you have the magic level you had when infected. Increasing your essence above six doesn't do anything but going below that can. Drop below six and your magic rating goes down accordingly - but with that if you suck a few people dry and raise it again it goes back up in line with essence. Plus you could still initiate and lose levels from Deadly damage. If that makes any sense how I'm trying to explain it. :o/
A 'floating level' as you describe makes more much sense than permanent Magic loss.
I'd take that a step further: A being's base Magic Rating is equal to their Essence, plus their Initiation grade, minus the sum of their lifetime Magic loss due to 'pattern damage'. So yo-yoing Essence is just going to yo-yo Magic by a like amount.
H'mm. I've asked this on another thread and got directed here.

I've read the rulings you've all made and I think - please don't lynch me - that I would rule differently. If you're interested (and if you're not - tough! i'm going to post it anyway! mwah ha. Mwah ha ha hah. Mwah ha ha ha ha ha aha ha haaaah!), then here's why:

Its a magical virus, right? Compare (its not a good comparison, but bear with me) FAB3. As it drains more, it gets more powerful. Spirits are very similar. If their Force rating increases (which for them requires karma, conjoring or whatever), everything gets more powerful about them. Surely it would just represent how potent the virus has become. This virus just happens to suffer from a Force/Essence loss weakness, like FAB does.

On that basis, when the vamp is fully fed up (and at a comparable maximum 'Force') wouldn't it just mean the vamp's body is more capable of channelling more power as the magical energies of the virus tie it more strongly to the astral plane? It doesn't mean the spells they know are more powerful, it just means they can learn higher force spells and be able to cast them when they're fully fed without suffering physical drain. It makes them tougher to attack astrally - a perfectly reasonable side effect of the virus being full fed and kept going - and makes the sizes of wards they can put up start to become frightening. I'm assuming that a full mage vampire can astrally project. Now, if they can, the virus must come with them or it would die in a body with no essence to keep it going. If it does then go with them then i reckon it must be a truely magical virus, (it DOES make them dual natured, so this seems reasonable) in which case its force rating - or essence in this case - would make it more powerful.

Of course, this might make your vamp mage npc a very sick puppy indeed in terms of stats, and on that basis downpowering them might be a good idea, but I think the game world interprets it in a different way to your rules ruling.

Or has this been officially qualified by fanpro (though I'll gladly take the word of any of the official writers - apologies to any who posted here, but I don't know who you are with the exception!)? In which case I'm preparing the knife and fork to eat my words with...
QUOTE (snowRaven)
A vampire starts out with whatever magic attribute he or she had before they became a vampire (or, if the HMHVV awakened the character, whatever magic rating he or she 'should' have had before)

I see that slightly different ...

During the course of becoming a HMHVV-being the victim looses all Essence he/she had before => He/she will loose an equal amount of magic. In case of a non-initiate that means: Magic is definitely gone.

At Essence = 0 the infection strikes and it's not guaranteed that a previously magically active victim remains magically active (i.e. does get the "magical abilities" power). For vampires the chances are pretty good however, while other HMHVV-critters automatically recieve that power (Wendigos and Nosferatu) or have lower chances of preserving their previous state / newly gain that power.

So far the official rules do not tell anything about the starting magic rating of a newly "born" vampire that happens to have the luck to aquire the "magical ability" power (regardless of previous magical activity).

Floating magical ratings (in accordance to current Essence rating) could be possible as well as fixed ratings (most likely 6 as with most sentient beings in SR).
Initiates who are transformed and preserve their abilities could also preserve their initiatory grades as well as loosing part of them due to the transformation ...

I guess that's up to the GM (for now, let's wait what "Running Wild" will tell us about HMHVV) ...
I kinda see your point.

For an adept though this would be a ton of paper work when the vampire was losing and gaining essence he would ditch stuff then regain and loss other things.

Like I said before a bit of a hassle. So from that point of view I think you might want to rule a steady system, where it is what the character was before he was a vampire. However I am not saying once again that this is some official shadowrun source material.

I think the idea actual has a lot of merit, diffently how you explained it and all. Once again I just am wondering about the paper work involved, it might be right darn annoying.
QUOTE (252)
For an adept though this would be a ton of paper work when the vampire was losing and gaining essence he would ditch stuff then regain and loss other things.

I'd say that it more would mean juggling how many powers they could have active at once, as per normal rules. initiation/20Gk (depending on which rule you're using, or if you're using both) gives you a power point. When an adept loses a point of essence through cyberware it doesn't affect the number of points they have, it affects what they can have up at the same time. So I see no reason why an essence increase would suddenly give them loads more powers.

Its probably a moot point unless you allow them to use both the buy a point with 20Gk AND the initiation rules, which i do, regardless of the FAQ precisely because they can have all the powers they like if they want to spend the karma, but they still can't use more points than they have magic rating, which means initiation (and gain another power point to spend). Which allows you to use that point you bought previously, but not at the same time as the point you got via initiation. It also helps physads reduce (not remove entirely) the amount of saving for grade after grade they have to do to learn a new ability, and means that they can choose to get to about grade 4 and then buy points. I like this. It means they stay at magic rating 10 or so, and just have more things they can do - and a lot of powers must be turned on and off at the expense of actions so if they're constantly swapping it slows them down.

Seems pretty balanced to me.

Oh hell. I'm really harping on today. I only came on to ask a question about critters and I've been here two hours posting!

By way of apology, can I just say I love this forum! Its so useful to see how other people handle stuff. Its helped me pinpoint holes in house rules and in my GMing that I just wasn't aware of in a little over a week!
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