which spells do you like most ?
my favourites are:
Slay spirits
Orgasm
Shapechange
now it's your turn
Full Version: Spells that you prefer !
To all those mages out there -
which spells do you like most ?
my favourites are:
Slay spirits
Orgasm
Shapechange
now it's your turn
which spells do you like most ?
my favourites are:
Slay spirits
Orgasm
Shapechange
now it's your turn
Shapechange would be great, if you wouldn't have to leave most/all your equipment and clothing behind. 
Control Thoughts and Influence are cool.
Fashion and Makeover are always nice to have.
Improved Invisibility and Physical Mask are high on the list as well.
Bye
Thanee
Control Thoughts and Influence are cool.
Fashion and Makeover are always nice to have.
Improved Invisibility and Physical Mask are high on the list as well.
Bye
Thanee
My favorite combo (thought I never got to use it, I did hint about it at one point, lol). would be control thoughts and orgasm (or orgy if you want to make it increasingly more pandemic).
Basically you use the control thoughts and make the person go strip dance in the middle of a public place (and how he dances is up to you of course, lol), then at the key moment, use orgasm - if you time it right, they will definitely get jailed, and if you used orgy...well...
evil, yes, but originally the plan only involves control thoughts/body, not the other spell. Since they put that material in their books, however, it'd be a shame to waste it as a distraction - blooper reals with quality!
and watch out for dancing trolls in the future.
Basically you use the control thoughts and make the person go strip dance in the middle of a public place (and how he dances is up to you of course, lol), then at the key moment, use orgasm - if you time it right, they will definitely get jailed, and if you used orgy...well...
evil, yes, but originally the plan only involves control thoughts/body, not the other spell.
Since they put that material in their books, however, it'd be a shame to waste it as a distraction - blooper reals with quality!and watch out for dancing trolls in the future.
Mind Probe, Stunball/bolt, Lightning bolt/Ball Lightning, Increase Reflexes, Armor, and Physical Barrier.
i'm a fan of levitate, personally.
Control action in a mine field...
Fashion
Fix
Levitate
Makeover
Shapechange
With Fashion and Makeover you can completely change your look. Makes it easy to lose tails, and infiltration got easier if you can keep changing appearances.
Shapechange. Crossing borders is real easy, just change into an eagle and fly over. You can carry small objects in a chest pouch (makeover spell).
Fix. You can fix all those kicked in doors, no more obvious signs of forced entry. And, all those bullet holes in clothing can be easily patched up, with the blood removed (makeover).
Fix
Levitate
Makeover
Shapechange
With Fashion and Makeover you can completely change your look. Makes it easy to lose tails, and infiltration got easier if you can keep changing appearances.
Shapechange. Crossing borders is real easy, just change into an eagle and fly over. You can carry small objects in a chest pouch (makeover spell).
Fix. You can fix all those kicked in doors, no more obvious signs of forced entry. And, all those bullet holes in clothing can be easily patched up, with the blood removed (makeover).
Levitate.
Stunbolt. Force 6 is drain 2. It's a monster, especially cause it's resisted by willpower.
I've not to this date made a mage without Increase Reflexes. Even the ones that didn't fight had Increase Reflexes. It's just that useful.
|_3\/1747012z!!! (Levitatorz)
Increase Reaction-Think Neo when your dodging the next set of attacks with this spell adding a few more hits to your reaction. The drain cost is nothing (especially if you make it a fetished spell and add those extra two dice)
Increase Agility-with the average mage having a 3 to 4 in this stat it's highly likely that even a couple of success' can make a world of difference.
Physical Mask-even easier to lose tails when it takes only one spell to do it. And with this spell you can change more than just a few cosmetic things
Improved invisbility-Can I say how much more Important it is if you can sneak up to the guard in broad daylight and off him without anyone seeing you?
Armor-With the low Body score most mages will have a good roll on this will make you feel like that ork Sammie who's shooting at you.
Increase Agility-with the average mage having a 3 to 4 in this stat it's highly likely that even a couple of success' can make a world of difference.
Physical Mask-even easier to lose tails when it takes only one spell to do it. And with this spell you can change more than just a few cosmetic things
Improved invisbility-Can I say how much more Important it is if you can sneak up to the guard in broad daylight and off him without anyone seeing you?
Armor-With the low Body score most mages will have a good roll on this will make you feel like that ork Sammie who's shooting at you.
I'm not thrilled with the Slay spells. Sure, it's a bit less drain, but you have to spend precious bp or karma to get them, when Manabolt is the all-in-one wondertool for sorcerous combat.
Improved invisibility is worthless vs Ultrasound - that's why it lost it's top place on my fav. list
still a good spell
So just take Hush as well.
If I were a mage in training the first three spells I would learn would be:
Levitate
Trid Phantasm
Orgasm
...after that I would start to add more useful (to, say, a runner or corp sec mage) spells (like Heal/Treat, Manna/Physical Barrior, Stunbolt, etc...), but while I was a studient, those are the first three that I would want.
AFE
Levitate
Trid Phantasm
Orgasm
...after that I would start to add more useful (to, say, a runner or corp sec mage) spells (like Heal/Treat, Manna/Physical Barrior, Stunbolt, etc...), but while I was a studient, those are the first three that I would want.
AFE
hush has it's own problems. first off, it's mana based... i assume you meant *silence* which also has it's own problems
if you're in a large, open space it works just fine... oh, large open space and *floating away from the floor but not near the ceiling, that is*
or in otherwise dark areas, provided the person with ultrasound does not have some means of seeing in darkness... which is kinda not so likely.
essentially, having a large zone of "nothing" can get really fragging suspicious when ultrasound is telling you there's no floor, ceiling, walls, or objects in the spaces where you see floor, ceiling, walls, and objects. particularly if it's a MOVING empty space.
furthermore, you will need at least 3-4 successes to have the spell work on ultrasound devices. not all that impossible, sure, but it can mean you need to cast the spell twice or even more often if you get unlucky.
oh, and on a side note, influence would be really nice to know as well (as long as it works the way i think it's supposed to, and not the way the RAW say it does... does anyone else think it's odd that influence is subject to the target breaking out gradually over time, completely contrary to what it worked like in previous editions? kinda weird for the target to be able to resist a permanent spell *after* it's been made permanent, isn't it?)
if you're in a large, open space it works just fine... oh, large open space and *floating away from the floor but not near the ceiling, that is*
or in otherwise dark areas, provided the person with ultrasound does not have some means of seeing in darkness... which is kinda not so likely.
essentially, having a large zone of "nothing" can get really fragging suspicious when ultrasound is telling you there's no floor, ceiling, walls, or objects in the spaces where you see floor, ceiling, walls, and objects. particularly if it's a MOVING empty space.
furthermore, you will need at least 3-4 successes to have the spell work on ultrasound devices. not all that impossible, sure, but it can mean you need to cast the spell twice or even more often if you get unlucky.
oh, and on a side note, influence would be really nice to know as well (as long as it works the way i think it's supposed to, and not the way the RAW say it does... does anyone else think it's odd that influence is subject to the target breaking out gradually over time, completely contrary to what it worked like in previous editions? kinda weird for the target to be able to resist a permanent spell *after* it's been made permanent, isn't it?)
My top 3 have to be Improved Invisibility, Chaotic World, and Fireball.
Though Shapechange can definetly be useful. It can make the technomancer alot easier to transport when he's gone VR or has had Fading kick his behind.
Though Shapechange can definetly be useful. It can make the technomancer alot easier to transport when he's gone VR or has had Fading kick his behind.
How about Trid Phantasm? That spell roxxorz.
It's the ultimate excuse to make flashy painful spells without too much drain, and if you keep a good count in dice, unlikely for people to see through it immediately. Nothing like zapping a person and making them think they're singed and horribly maimed, only for them to realize later it didn't actually happen.
Only downside is sustaining the spell in some circumstances - gets tricky using the same illusion on entering people without making the initial victims suspicious a bit.
And you'd have to be in the spells AoE if you want the effects to come from you. >.<
Only downside is sustaining the spell in some circumstances - gets tricky using the same illusion on entering people without making the initial victims suspicious a bit.
And you'd have to be in the spells AoE if you want the effects to come from you. >.<
What's so damned exciting about Orgasm?
Stunbolt has only a little more drain, an Instant duration, and its effects last forever, tactically speaking.
Anyway, my top three are Manabolt, the all purpose combat wondertool, Levitate, the all purpose wondertool period, and Heal.
Stunbolt has only a little more drain, an Instant duration, and its effects last forever, tactically speaking.
Anyway, my top three are Manabolt, the all purpose combat wondertool, Levitate, the all purpose wondertool period, and Heal.
| QUOTE (Zen Shooter01) |
| What's so damned exciting about Orgasm? |
...
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Sep 9 2006, 04:28 PM) |
| oh, and on a side note, influence would be really nice to know as well (as long as it works the way i think it's supposed to, and not the way the RAW say it does... does anyone else think it's odd that influence is subject to the target breaking out gradually over time, completely contrary to what it worked like in previous editions? kinda weird for the target to be able to resist a permanent spell *after* it's been made permanent, isn't it?) |
Influence doesn't break down "over time." It can break down and provide a second resistance test if some other person asks a question or makes a warning that makes the subject reconsider.
For example, you track a guard to his home (or the Stuffer Shack) and Influence him to turn off some security system when at precisely 10:30 pm. work the next day, thinking it's for scheduled maintenance. A subordinate sees him do it and ask why he's doing it - he gets a second roll of the Willpower dice. If it still doesn't negate net successes, he turns off the security system and gives his implanted explanation. (Which may not actually convince the subordinate, so you may be screwed anyway, but I'm just offering and explanation of why you might get a second resist chance.) If the second roll of the dice is enough to cancel the net success, the guard blinks and wonders what they hell he was thinking. Hey, there's no scheduled maintenance!
So the trick is to avoid as best you can giving Influence commands that will be carried out in front of people who might object or question. Sure, you can tell him to pull out his gun and shoot Subject X next time he sees him, but if some bystander yells "what the fuck are you doing" he's going to get a second resistance shot.
It's weaker than in SR3, but so is Control Thoughts.
| QUOTE (Slithery D @ Sep 9 2006, 07:16 PM) |
| Influence doesn't break down "over time." It can break down and provide a second resistance test if some other person asks a question or makes a warning that makes the subject reconsider. |
see, according to the rules, that's where you're wrong. according to the BBB,
| QUOTE (P. 202) |
| Every (Force) Combat Turns, the victim may spend a Complex Action to shake off the mental control. |
Influence is quite clearly marked as being a mental manipulation, and no exception is noted to this clause. all it says is that they also get an extra resist check when someone questions what they're doing, referencing the above section on mental manipulations.
i do completely agree that Influence is *supposed* to work as you have indicated. but as i said in my first post, that is not how it works, according to the rules of the game.
probably just an oversight, mind you, but one that has made it through three versions of the PDF.
i do completely agree that Influence is *supposed* to work as you have indicated. but as i said in my first post, that is not how it works, according to the rules of the game.
probably just an oversight, mind you, but one that has made it through three versions of the PDF.
This falls under the "don't be retarded" rule. The time limitation obviously only applies to sustained control manipulations.
| QUOTE (Slithery D) |
| This falls under the "don't be retarded" rule. The time limitation obviously only applies to sustained control manipulations. |
obvious to anyone who played shadowrun before 4th edition, yes.
obvious to someone who is new to shadowrun and doesn't know how influence worked in previous editions, no.
how is it obvious? does it say "this only applies to sustained mental manipulations"? because, if it said that, i agree it would be obvious. or, if it said somewhere that influence doesn't work like that, i agree it would be obvious. but quite frankly, it does not say anywhere in SR4 (that i have noticed) that the general rule for all mental manipulation spells works differently for influence, or for permanent mental manipulations spells in general.
but then, perhaps you and i have different opinions of what "obvious" is, exactly.
| QUOTE |
| how is it obvious? |
Well, a permanent spell no longer requires magic to sustain. It's not even a magic effect anymore. So I'm not sure how rules pertaining to characters shrugging off the magical effects would make any difference. But as written, characters do get to make checks to shrug off the effects of the spell before it becomes permanent. It's an ongoing effect at that point.
Which really means that characters get precisely one atempt to shake off the mental control. You get one check after (Force) turns, and after (2 x Force) Turns it stops being a magical effect and is no longer subject to that rule.
-Frank
Since my first adventure in Shadowrun, (Food Fight in the 1st ed BBB), my mages have always had Levitate. Picking up a ganger and bouncing him into 25 meters of shelves was just too much fun to NOT repeat. Heal is always on the list too. Gotta have the healing powers that make Samurai want to protect me. Fashion and Makeover are good picks too. Manaball and Powerball are the big "I wanna hurt a lot of people fast" spells I prefer.
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) | ||
Well, a permanent spell no longer requires magic to sustain. It's not even a magic effect anymore. So I'm not sure how rules pertaining to characters shrugging off the magical effects would make any difference. But as written, characters do get to make checks to shrug off the effects of the spell before it becomes permanent. It's an ongoing effect at that point. Which really means that characters get precisely one atempt to shake off the mental control. You get one check after (Force) turns, and after (2 x Force) Turns it stops being a magical effect and is no longer subject to that rule. -Frank |
hmmm... right you are... hadn't noticed the permanent becoming natural and not requiring magic was not specific to health spells, but there it is right in the duration description.
it should probably still make a specific note of that (maybe it would just be a good FAQ question) because reading the mental manipulation rules and the rules for influence, it sure doesn't look like that's how it works.
although, i would still have to say, if you have to go looking up the reference to one small word in the heading, it still isn't very "obvious" IMO. if i didn't have some familiarity with previous editions of SR, i would not have even known how it was supposed to work.
Hmm....I was thinking about favorite spells, and something came to mind. Indirect Combat spells, like Ball Lightning, are treated like ranged attacks. Does that mean that they can't be counterspelled?
Counterspelling helps with the damage resistance test, but can't keep them from hitting in the first place, like with direct combat spells. Only reaction (+ dodge) lets you entirely dodge an indirect spell.
Bear in mind that since they're physical (sorta) attacks that you dodge like bullets, the deflection spell in SM would actually work on them.
However, I would also point out that, unlike guns, the indirect elemental spells are theoretically limited in successes like direct spells via force.
....which I consider odd, but it wouldn't be the first time the concept of 'stronger spells let you aim more effectively' has been used.
I suppose the lower force theory is that a smaller effect has less chance of hitting or being effective too - people can get zapped for some amount of electricity without being killed.
If anyone has good evidence that indirect spells aren't limited by force in successes, feel, free to tell me. ^-^;
However, I would also point out that, unlike guns, the indirect elemental spells are theoretically limited in successes like direct spells via force.
....which I consider odd, but it wouldn't be the first time the concept of 'stronger spells let you aim more effectively' has been used.
I suppose the lower force theory is that a smaller effect has less chance of hitting or being effective too - people can get zapped for some amount of electricity without being killed.
If anyone has good evidence that indirect spells aren't limited by force in successes, feel, free to tell me. ^-^;
So...where does it say that counterspelling can be used for the damage resistance test?
In the rules for combat spells. I know, the last place you'd think to look. I also hear that armor helps you resist damage from bullets, but I can't be bothered to read the combat chapter of the BBB to find out for sure.
| QUOTE (Slithery D) |
| In the rules for combat spells. I know, the last place you'd think to look. I also hear that armor helps you resist damage from bullets, but I can't be bothered to read the combat chapter of the BBB to find out for sure. |
Ouch, lol, that was subtle and not? Hard to tell.
It's okay for people to ask questions SD, even if it seems obvious. I was starting to question the mental manipulation limitation with influence until it was pointed out the effect became natural via the permanency. It makes sense if you use the force turns for them to resist it over time or that.
This is one of the obvious (and I use it loosely) disadvantages of a game system that's designed to allow leeway in areas so you can flex the game a bit either way. The designers aren't going to catch every snag when they're trying to leave that too.
Personally fling is my favorite spell in the game.
As long as grenades have buttons/pings/keypads/etc ...
Mage hand will still be my favorite.
Str-2 (force 2) is more then enough to pull then pin on a grenade...
Anyone who has seen X-men 2 (though admittedly not exactly mage hand) knows why this is the bomb
Mage hand will still be my favorite.
Str-2 (force 2) is more then enough to pull then pin on a grenade...
Anyone who has seen X-men 2 (though admittedly not exactly mage hand) knows why this is the bomb
| QUOTE (laughingowl) |
| As long as grenades have buttons/pings/keypads/etc ... Mage hand will still be my favorite. Str-2 (force 2) is more then enough to pull then pin on a grenade... Anyone who has seen X-men 2 (though admittedly not exactly mage hand) knows why this is the bomb |
you mean magic fingers? (mage hand is D&D...)
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
you mean magic fingers? (mage hand is D&D...) |
Bahh curse the d20 modern campaign I am running right now...
Yeah Magic fingers....
Still the most fun you can have with somebody else's grenade...
(although I guess by the rules a technomancer (or any hacker) could probably do the same, but common sense to me would say any grenade would have some physical override/shutoff on any wireless activation (have to be 'armed').
Magic fingers is always a good choice
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) | ||
Well, a permanent spell no longer requires magic to sustain. It's not even a magic effect anymore. So I'm not sure how rules pertaining to characters shrugging off the magical effects would make any difference. But as written, characters do get to make checks to shrug off the effects of the spell before it becomes permanent. It's an ongoing effect at that point. Which really means that characters get precisely one atempt to shake off the mental control. You get one check after (Force) turns, and after (2 x Force) Turns it stops being a magical effect and is no longer subject to that rule. -Frank |
Oh, dear...
I just realized this reading means my character is responsible for no less than a half dozen permanently incontinent mafioso.
Heh.
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