Set this up for on topic discussion in regards to EDGE. Another thread was getting off topic, so hopefully this will curb that.

Link to previous conversation
http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?show...00&#entry446646

Questions raised:
How often should EDGE really be refreshed? Some have suggested complete refreshes after different scenes in a run (The Meet, Legwork, etc.) while some think such refreshing should be done after every run.

Does using EDGE too frequently belittle the sense of urgency in deadly situations?

Does this ruin the feel of the game, making the most outrageous tasks too easy to accomplish for even the unskilled?

How much EDGE should the average character consider building into his character? How much should he consider buying later with karma?



My Input:While Edge can make for some great dramatic moments, I don't think it was supposed to be a catch-all substitute for being good at what you do. That Cha 1/ no Etiquette check should just plain fail. That's the outsome you chose when making the character. Same goes for not being proficient in first aid when you work in the profession that you do.

Just being lucky through Edge to get everything done is cheap. If you're playing Hack'n'Slash, be good at killing and staying alive. If you're playing "Tea'n'Crumpets" then have Etiquette and stuff. Tailor your character to the game. You example of escaping in a helicopter is a bad one. If you don't have a rigger than you should really find a different way out of the situation you're in. The GM should facilitate that so long as you weren't forewarned (You're blowing up a tanker, be ready to fly out of there. What, no pilot? Good bye!). Runner's should stay out of situations they can't handle, and GM's shouldn't put them up against long lines of tests that can only conceiveably be overcome with Edge. Edge shouldn't be neccesary if your team is competent, skilled, and balanced.

I consider Edge the most powerful attribute in SR4, right after Magic, of course.

A high Edge will add a high positive modifier to the most important checks you make, it will therefore heighten the overall capability of your character. A high Edge gives you the ability to use any skill there is on a good level (your Edge level, to be precise) a few times at least.

How much Edge should one have? As much as possible from a metagaming point of view, as much as fits the character from a roleplaying point of view, or simply as much as you can afford. Make your pick.

When should Edge refresh? Once per (typical length) run sounds good to me. Maybe partial refreshment during the run, but not as much as twice during one run (for longer runs multiple refreshments are probably appropriate, depending on the length, of course).

As a guideline, it should not be possible to use Edge on every important check in the game. You should have to decide, whether you want to use your Edge or save it for later.

Once per scene is ridiculous.

Bye
Thanee

At the top of every session.

I aim for a more realistic tone in my campaigns - more The Bourne Identity than Dragonball Z. Refreshing at the beginning of the session makes Edge scarce enough for it to be impressive when you use it.

The biggest thing for my players were just having be define when it refreshes, not really how often or whatnot, as they can adjust. What we have been doing in my games...24 hour refresh.

Most of the time, that only covers a single run, one time. But, on some occaisions, we might get a refresh multiple times in a session, but obviously that means it has spanned a few days...

With edge replenishing once per day, basically after rest, my group has not had any problems.

24h after the last point Edge was spend/received.

How do people handle it for "downtime" and extended tests? Mostly spirit binding, but also things like spell/formula design, computer b/r or software writing?

About downtime... a good approach is probably to count downtime as part of the *next* run, i.e. Edge refreshes at the end of a run, at the time Karma is handed out.

Bye
Thanee

I wouldn't allow my players to use Edge during "downtime". Edge, to me, seems more a "spur" of the moment, "a lucky break at the right time" kind of thing. Not something that should be used or manipulated by the character while writing a program, fixing a car (when you have a week to do so), lying around his doss, etc...

Binding the one instance where I'm not sure whether it's appropriate or not. Are the preceding hours building up to final contest of wills at the end? The spirit can use Edge against you if the GM allows it to; why can't you? Can free spirits reasonably be bound at all without Edge? And isn't weird that you could use edge to summon but not bind a spirit?

I think it's resonable to prohibit Edge use for other lengthy tasks.

If at the end of a session a player wants to shop or enchant or something like that, I consider it to be part of the next session - any Edge spent won't be available in the next session.

I like to refresh 1 point of edge after big fights and entire edge after a job is completed.

A bit variable, mostly at the start of a run. Only during it if there's some clear and significant break. E.g. PCs captured and imprisoned - refreshes the next day ready for their escape attempt. Might reward a point of Edge back after a significant achievement mid-run, e.g. a dramatic fight or rescue. But only might.

I would allow Edge to be spent during downtime if the player wished. I don't want to see it used on rolls to source gear etc., though. Also, I'm the sort of GM that will spring surprises on players during downtime. A player would then have used up her edge already and be in even more trouble.

I'm starting a new game next month and I'm doing something odd. I liked the way karma pool accumulated in previous editions and I'm replicating this with Edge. All PCs begin with 1 Edge (2 for humans) and they can't buy it higher. For every 20 karma they earn, they can buy it up a level if they wish to spend the points. This reflects increasing experience, confidence and maturity. I'm expecting this to make the game more dangerous, unpredictable and hopefully fun. It will also indoctrinate a dependence on good planning in them (I hope). New players, so they wont know the difference anyway.

That sounds pretty cool, Knasser - I also liked how the karma pool worked in the previous editions. I thought it added to the system, and helped seperate the experienced veterans, from the greenhorns.

As it stands right now, we track each point of edge seperately, and have a 1 week IC time refresh rate. If you 'blow your wad' early, you'll have to wait up to a week of In Character time to get it all back. If you use a little here, and use a little there, usually you'll have a portion of your Edge points used, while other portions of it are 'recharging'.

I think this helps reinforce the notion that Edge is a helpful tool in some circumstances, or a powerful tool in one very dramatic circumstance, but not a crutch that can be used to constantly suppliment skills that a character didn't develop.

The more and more I think about this concept, the more I like it, Knasser. Let me know how this turns out for you.

Personally, I think I'd change it from 'Humans start out with more Edge' to 'Humans accrue Edge faster than other Metahumans', but still, definitely a cool compromise between SR3 and SR4.

Our group plays once a week and Edge refreshes every week. So if you used all your edge this session you will have it next session.

Now most of my players have an edge of 3 or 4, and the rule i use is that they can roll that many dice that many times and this seems to work with us. Also, it doesn't matter is a run takes a month to get through or we do 2 a night, edge still refreshes every week. Honestly, my players tend to use it more often to boost social skill tests than combat test.

The idea that each edge point refreshes on an individual basis is pretty cool too. That creates a lot more tactical usage.

SR3 completely raped metahumans in terms of edge (called Karma pol back then). There was almost no reason to play a nonhuman because humans gained karma pool at a rate of 1 per 10 karma, while metahumans gained it half as fast. With how powerful karma pool was (it was basically edge+), going the meta route was only an option in a very short term game unless you wanted to ignore numbers in favor of RP.