PS -- Minute 15 or so is where the grenades and the chaingun start up.
Full Version: Concealment does NOT equal Cover
Ever wanted to watch a house get shot up with various weapons? Neat video, testing various small arms (and at one point, a 30mm chaingun!) against a mock-house, with various cinder block, brick, plywood, etc, walls. Oh, and some vests and helmets and mannequins and whatnot.
PS -- Minute 15 or so is where the grenades and the chaingun start up.
PS -- Minute 15 or so is where the grenades and the chaingun start up.
Brilliant find, thank you. Loved every bit of it. What I'd still like to see is .50 BMG multipurpose rounds -- never seen what those impacts look like close up -- and long bursts against heavier walls, ie. how long it takes to create a hole in a concrete wall with a 5.56mm, 7.62mm and .50 MG.
Now we need to write elaborate cover versus concealment rules for SR! 
They've already got them. They're poorly-defined, but they exist.
~J
~J
Isn't that just "Firing through a Barrier" and blind fire if you're lucky?
Those're them.
~J
~J
Or in the case of the SMAW, Firing Through A Barrier + Chunky Salsa + Breaking Through A Barrier.
I really wish they'd put some sort of clear-plastic roof on, for the grenades. Roof, because I want to see the sort of destruction caused by chunky salsa, clear plastic because I want to see the sort of destruction caused by chunky salsa.
It's amazing the stuff you can stumble across on google video.
It's amazing the stuff you can stumble across on google video.
Part of me is sure that most of those weapons are illegal and nigh-impossible for the American public to get hold of but even the 9mm pistol was penetrating further than I would feel comfortable with.
I was kind of wondering about the sniper-rifle's penetration, then they only showed it penetrating a window. I was told, a few years back now, that the average sniper can put a bullet through a brick wall and still retain enough kinetic energy to penetrate body-armour. But then, I don't suppose blind-firing snipers last long in any military unit...
I was kind of wondering about the sniper-rifle's penetration, then they only showed it penetrating a window. I was told, a few years back now, that the average sniper can put a bullet through a brick wall and still retain enough kinetic energy to penetrate body-armour. But then, I don't suppose blind-firing snipers last long in any military unit...
| QUOTE (Firewall) |
| Part of me is sure that most of those weapons are illegal and nigh-impossible for the American public to get hold of but even the 9mm pistol was penetrating further than I would feel comfortable with. |
Right. Because it's the armament of the American public your average citizen of the UK needs to worry about.
| QUOTE (Critias) |
| Right. Because it's the armament of the American public your average citizen of the UK needs to worry about. |
It is when he is looking at moving to the US and guns are the element of the US culture that make him most nervous.
5.56x45mm and 7.62x51mm rifles (though not select-fire ones) are common as dirt throughout the western world, and particularly the former are quite common among certain people in the US as "oh shit" defense guns.
The single 7.62x51mm shot penetrated the window, one side of a helmet, 1 or 2 interior walls and some random crap before exiting the building. I would not have been surprised if the bullet would still have been capable of penetrating light flexible body armor on the other side of the building.
One of the greatest things the video shows is how light, very high-velocity rifle bullets tends to fragment on impact against something hard, like a brick wall. My connection is insanely slow right now so I can't check: did the very first rounds fired at the brick wall with the M240 penetrate? [Edit]Finally managed to load it that far. Hard to say whether the first rounds penetrated.[/Edit]
Light sheetrock and plywood walls + fragmentation grenade |= chunky salsa, unfortunately. You'd walls that could actually handle the pressure, and even then the effect of some ounces of high explosives would probably not look that dramatic -- that is, compared to the visually quite appealing effect of the fragmentation of an M67 on and through those light walls.
The single 7.62x51mm shot penetrated the window, one side of a helmet, 1 or 2 interior walls and some random crap before exiting the building. I would not have been surprised if the bullet would still have been capable of penetrating light flexible body armor on the other side of the building.
One of the greatest things the video shows is how light, very high-velocity rifle bullets tends to fragment on impact against something hard, like a brick wall. My connection is insanely slow right now so I can't check: did the very first rounds fired at the brick wall with the M240 penetrate? [Edit]Finally managed to load it that far. Hard to say whether the first rounds penetrated.[/Edit]
Light sheetrock and plywood walls + fragmentation grenade |= chunky salsa, unfortunately. You'd walls that could actually handle the pressure, and even then the effect of some ounces of high explosives would probably not look that dramatic -- that is, compared to the visually quite appealing effect of the fragmentation of an M67 on and through those light walls.
| QUOTE (Firewall) | ||
It is when he is looking at moving to the US and guns are the element of the US culture that make him most nervous. |
Believe it or not, it's not like we run around shooting them off at people's houses for no reason all the time. Unless you're moving to the middle of the ghetto, or visiting a shooting range, you will -- like most Americans -- very probably never hear a single shot. My wife grew up in Texas and had never handled a gun, nor seen/heard/witnessed one being fired, until she was 33 years old and I took her to a range.
You're not moving to Baghdad. Chill.
| QUOTE (Austere Emancipator) |
| What I'd still like to see is .50 BMG multipurpose rounds |
Paraphrasing SSC:
And to think I always believed that the purpose of .50 BMG was pretty well defined.
Nice video. The only surprising thing was, that for once we were told the truth in military basic training about the penetrating power of the 7,62 Nato ammunition.
Oh, and I hear automatic weapons fire all the time...
Oh, and I hear automatic weapons fire all the time...
I was a little surprised the AK penetrated better than both the M-16 AND the M-240.
I expected the 240 to perform a little better, yeah. But the AK outgunning the M-16 shouldn't've surprised anyone, at those ranges. I'm disappointed the shotgunny bits got edited out -- I was curious as to whether they'd use slugs or shot, but it turned out we didn't get to see either.
Likewise, even though I knew that if the slower 7.62x39mm FMJs handle anything better than 7.62x51mm FMJs, it'd be brick and concrete. Nevertheless I would like to see the bits that were apparently cut off from the clip concerning the AK (and the shotgun), which might better show how well the AK actually penetrated the bricks and cinderblocks.
Oh, rock on. Now I just have to get home to my non-work connection... 
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