I'm a full mage (Magic 6) considering the spell Wreck (Door) after a near fatal run. I'd like to run some numbers by the experts.

Wreck (Door) Force 6, choose Damage Level at Serious, with Sorcery at 6 against an average door Object Resistance of 5 to 8 (P182 SR3).

So i roll Sorcery (plus Spell Pool) against target number equal to OR, but what does the damage mean...?
1. Does the object resist damage (with body attribute) like metahumans do?
2. What about the barrier rating, is there a difference in the spell's damage or effect if you are 'Wreck'ing a glass door? a steel door?
3. What about a force 1 versus a force 6 spell? what are the differences (other than drain).
4. Damage Level means... do i deal deadly damage to the target door and then it breaks? what about 4 separate moderate spells?

I'd just like to note my confusion is based on the Barrier Ratings of objects featured on page 118? SR3. There is a table stating that if the force of the attack (i assume the gun or fist used to break the object) must be equal to 1/2 the rating to do damage. The description of the spell makes me think BR has nothing to do with the spell, but i'm still not sure about Force and Damage Level effects.

Thanks

theo

Some is opinion, some is truth. Good luck seperating how they work.

1. No, the OR substitutes for the normal contested roll. It reduces your successes, which is the same thing.
2. Only in how the door breaks.
3. Your spell force has to meet or beat the OR/2 (round down) or it won't work. p182 again.
4. Damage level is the amount of damage you do to the device. Deadly means it breaks, anything less and it still holds. This doesn't jive with the barrier rules, but it's magic.

Good questions. The following are all my own interpretations -- anyone please correct me if you find errors in my thinking. These include using the Barrier Rules.

First off, the spell is "Wreck Door", not "Wreck (Door)". Wreck Door is simply a Powerbolt with a lower drain code and a restricted target. Anything Wreck Door can do, Powerbolt can do but with a tougher drain. Your magician might decide that wrecking doors will be so infrequent that he'd rather take Powerbolt and be able to do Doors and lots of other things too.

Secondly, doors and other inanimate objects don't resist spells. They are tough to affect, but if you have enough force and make the dice rolls you succeed.

Third, you can not simply perform 4 separate attacks that do moderate damage in order to break through a door (a barrier). Consider a car stuck in the end of a hallway. Doing deadly damage will make the car non-functional, but it is still there and blocking the hallway. After 4 separate attacks that do moderate damage the door is no longer functional, which might mean it no longer swings open or closed or locks and unlocks, but it may still block your passage.

I will contrast powerbolt on a Car, on a metal sculpture, and on a door.

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The TN for Powerbolt on a Car is its Object Resistance of 8 plus its Body Rating plus half its Armor Rating. (SR3 p. 150)

The TN for Powerbolt on a fragile high-tech metal alloy sculpture is its Object Resistance of 8 (OR table p. 182).

The TN for Powerbolt on a high-tech metal alloy door with barrier rating 12 is it its OR of 8.

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The Force to affect the car has to meet two rules:
Equal or exceed HALF of (OR + Body + Armor/2) (see Errata http://www.srrpg.com/resources/errata_sr3.shtml).
Exceed the Armor rating (SR3 p. 150)

The minimum Force to affect the fragile high-tech sculpture is HALF of the OR (Sorcery Test p. 182).

The Force to affect a Door (Barrier), like the car, has two requirements.
First, it must be at least HALF the OR simply to affect the door (p. 182).
Second, you're not just trying to make it non-functioning, but actually remove enough of the door to get through. Therefore it must meet the power requirements listed below for barriers.

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Affecting a barrier (including Doors) is covered on SR3 p. 125 under "Breaking Through". We're looking for enough power in our attack to get onto the Barrier Effect Table (p. 124) where a successful attack with:
power < 1/2 ADJUSTED barrier rating does no damage
power up to ADJUSTED barrier rating lowers real barrier rating by 1
power > ADJUSTED barrier rating blows a hole in barrier (see page for size) and lowers real rating by 1

Regardless of the holes in a door, a regular door will break open when its Barrier Rating is reduced to one-half the original. A security door's rating must be reduced to 0 before it will break open. ("Breaking Through" SR3 p. 125)

I'll contrast 5 types of attack to break through a door ("Breaking Through" SR3 p. 125):
Combat Axe: Adjusted Barrier Rating is twice its real barrier rating.
Firearms: Adjusted is twice real
Combat Spell: Adjusted is twice real
Elemental Manipulation Spell: Adjusted same as real
Explosives: Adjusted same as real

Therefore to break through a high-tech metal alloy ( OR 8 ) security door (barrier rating 12) needs a successful attack by a combat spell, such as Powerbolt or Wreck Door, with a force of 12 just to damage it enough to lower the barrier rating by 1. Seven successful attacks will lower the barrier rating of the door to 5 whereupon successive spells will blow 1/2 meter holes in it, but since it is a security door it won't simply break open till its rating gets down to zero.

Note that rating 12 is tough. And deliberately so. Rating 12 covers structural materials (see p. 124) such as concrete block walls, and load-bearing interior walls. It also covers Security Doors made out of Heavy Material. Heavy Material is normally barrier rating 6, but Security Doors are twice the rating of their material. ("Barriers" p.124)

With an Elemental Manipulation Spell, you'll get by with half the force needed by a Combat Spell. Pick an elemental attack that will affect the materials in the doors you are interested in.

As far as I can see, using the barrier rules doesn't involve the number of successes you obtain on your Sorcery Test, nor the Damage Level (L, M, S, D) you select. Your GM may make a house rule that additional successes or greater damage level have greater affect.

Magic does not easily destroy exterior walls and doors. I guess you see that.

Some people think it takes years to learn a Force 12 spell.

The new version of the Wreck/Ram spells have bothered me for a long time -

If you treat them like Powerbolts, then there aren't really any rules for how and when they break open, since doors don't have condition monitors, don't make resistance tests, and the material of the door wouldn't matter (other than in needed force of the spell) - in general though, this makes anything lower than Serious damage level useless.

If you treat them under the normal rules for breaking down a barrier, then the damage level of the spell has no bearing whatsoever, and you never need to cast it above light.

Neither way seems right to me, as the spell is written, and a combination of both is just weird and arbitrary...

Oh yeah.... those are definitely 2 of the most broken spells in the game without a doubt. You always cast it at 'Light' damage and need a minimum of Force 12 to 6 to damage lightweight hinges, don't try to blast a hole in a door, that requires at least a Force 12.

Sphynx

Yeah, this came up a while ago in my game. Vault Door at NORAD? TN8. Maybe 10. boom. One success? Door's destroyed. Shit. WHat ramifications does that have? No clue.

Bit Basher is thinking like I do. I was afraid something like that would show up.

Everyone seemed to agree that the barrier ratings apply to this spell, making breaking a steel door a job for a 6th level initiate.

I am also considering a Shape Metal spell, designed by me of course, but based off the Shape Earth and Water spells. Somehow I think barrier ratings should come in to play, or OR, but I think Shape Metal would be badly abused and unbalancing.

Anyone else have mages try to break down doors? What did they use?

Thanks for the help so far.

theo

When the mage in my campaign wants to break through a door he generally relies on Covert Ops Specialist or House Rigger.

I used to be interested in something like a Wreck Door spell, then I stumbled onto the same mess you guys did, wanna know how to get around it easily?

Animate 6, why wreck a door when you can just open it? The only things that wouldmess this up is a door that's someone how one with the wall, since animte can't do "pieces" of an object but in all my years I have never seen a door that wasn't it's own thing ( frame, door, opening mechanism, lock) these are all pieces of a door, the whole of the object is the door, frame and all.

Sunday

If you want to make it a bit trickier (but not horrendously) then you could always just roll Barrier rating as a resistance test. Or give the door a number of boxes of condition monitor varied by the barrier rating (IE: 3*BR in boxes). Or giving the wall a physical overflow monitor equal to its BR (or something).

Personally I think it's OK as it is as-long-as you don't just say that deadly damage turns a door to dust. (after-all, do people turn to dust after they have taken a deadly wound?) Deadly damage just stops something from working thus damaging a heavy steel door in such a manner may just fuse it shut.

I'm tempted to try the rolling BR as resistance thing tho. I think it may work.

I just think that half the Barrier Rating should be added to the TN, just like half the armor on a car is. I don't see why vehicles are treated different in this context.

BitBasher -- that is a reasonable house rule, and is the reason I put the canon description for Cars alongside the canon description for barriers.