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emo samurai
When I say street samurai, I mean shitloads of bioware, wired to the max, and muscle replacements and muscle toning to the max.

On the one hand, mages can fly and shit. On the other hand, a street sam can catch a bullet with his FACE.
James McMurray
It's that "take a bullet with my face" thing that throws me off. I'd rather not take a bullet at all, so Mage for me.
7.62
Mage, definately Mage.
emo samurai
You don't always have a choice in the matter. That said, mages have their ways of taking bullets with no trouble themselves.
Slithery D
Real men take 2 essence points worth of delta bioware/cyber (the latter just eyes/ears) after earning half a dozen grades of initiations and pushing their Magic to 12.
Angelone
Street sam, would rather take a shot to the face than get eaten by Cthulhu when wizzing around on the astral plane.
Sicarius
I picked Street Sam. There's alot less reading involved, and nobody goes by the motto "Geek the Street Sam First."
Kyoto Kid
...Street Sam Most, definitely.

simple straighforard (and usually very effective) attacks, able to take a lickin & keep on shooting, and the only "drain" is if you go lead hose all the time (and then it only affects your credstick instead of your condition monitor).

...& yes, they can play mind games too.
Grinder
Street Sam.
emo samurai
I picked mage.
Ophis
As did I, mostly i love the idea of conjuring.
Neverborn
Im such a nerd i wanna cast spells in real life so id be a magician
knasser

If it were purely for being a good shadowrunner, then certainly a Street Samurai. But for lifestyle, I have to pick mage. So many worlds to see, spirits to talk to and spells to learn.
FlakJacket
Magician. Definately a magician.
Mistwalker
Mage as well,
especially if I can by a physed mage / mystic adept
Squinky
Street Samauri FTW!

All you mages can grow old gracefully, I will be the dude with muscles of a youngster and perfect vision. Also, I've always wanted a cool-ass luke skywalker hand.
John Campbell
Magic is useful in day-to-day life, for people whose job description isn't, "Be faster, stronger, tougher, and deadlier than anyone else you meet, or die." Cyberware, with a few exceptions, isn't. And the exceptions aren't the ones that define "street samurai".

So, do I want to be part of the 1% Awakened elite with powers beyond the ken of mortal man, or some punk whittling away chunks of his body in an ultimately futile attempt to stay ahead of the Reaper? Yeah, tough question.
Dale
I chose Mage for the mind altering spells I would of course never dream of casting on elf chickies who work at Stuffer Shack...

But other than that I think I might prefer a badass Street Samurai.
fistandantilus4.0
mage- hell, if nothing else, the orgy spell is great at parties.
Zander Coyote
I have to say Shaman. It is my strange acceptance of the strange and surreal. I love the thought of being the guy who talks to a tree and the tree talks back.
DragginSPADE
I voted Street Sam, but only because Rigger wasn't an option.
FrankTrollman
I intend to go to space and live forever. The pure of essence can stay in their gravity well and die of natural causes if they want. Fuck that.

-Frank
De Badd Ass
QUOTE (sr4 page 101: Street Samurai)
Part man, part machine, all dangerous—sometimes it’s hard to tell where the Street Samurai’s meat body ends and his cybered enhancements begin. Tough, strong, frighteningly fast, and trained in the arts of combat and tactics, he’s a hyper-efficient killing machine who can handle just about any situation he gets into. Whether former military, former corp, or former something-he-won’t-discuss, these days he’s a freelance street operative who prides himself on his strict sense of honor. He is as learned in the ways of the samurai warrior as he is in the practice of security procedures, and he prides himself on always remaining one step ahead of the dishonorable street scum who seek vainly to best him..

I notice that no one chose Street Sam because they like the code of honor thing.

Pardon the intrusion, this is just a little bleed-over from Emo's Alignment thread. I figure since Emo started both threads....

Oh yeah, and his last name is Samurai biggrin.gif
Slithery D
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
I intend to go to space and live forever. The pure of essence can stay in their gravity well and die of natural causes if they want. Fuck that.

My formula spirit pact can beat up your microgravity!
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (Slithery D)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Sep 25 2006, 08:47 PM)
I intend to go to space and live forever. The pure of essence can stay in their gravity well and die of natural causes if they want. Fuck that.

My formula spirit pact can beat up your microgravity!

For what, 5,000 years? What then smarty pants?!

-Frank
BookWyrm
For me, I gotta be a Mage. Granted, there's a lot that cyber-/bioware can do that magic can't, and vice-versa, but I can just imagine seeing someone's aura... biggrin.gif
Grinder
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
mage- hell, if nothing else, the orgy spell is great at parties.

rotfl.gif

You'll become first on every invitation list for my parties. biggrin.gif
emo samurai
Depends on who else is at the party, though.
nezumi
That's what the disguise spell is for.

Hmm... I hadn't considered a shaman. I'm still in the mindset that mages and shamans are different paths nyahnyah.gif I'd want to be a shaman even if I didn't have the magic. I just like the idea of being able to give cryptic answers and everyone thinks that means I'm really smart.
Merlyn
Mage. Definately.

Ultimate comic power? Or its-bits, rapidly obsolete Sami? Is there really a choice?

QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
I intend to go to space and live forever. The pure of essence can stay in their gravity well and die of natural causes if they want. Fuck that.

-Frank


You are forgetting that whilst we are using our magic to live forever, we've mindcontrolled some meat schmuck to shoot you out of the sky biggrin.gif
emo samurai
Hidden life pact for the win!
John Campbell
I'm wondering where the microgravity == live forever thing came from. Current research seems to indicate that microgravity == slow deterioration of your body as mechanisms that evolved under 9.8 m/s² acceleration quit working properly. I suppose this isn't a problem if you're going full-borg, but then, it doesn't help, either.

And on the other side of the scale, I don't know of any rules-based reason that Restore Youth wouldn't be a valid permanent Health spell.
Kagetenshi
Define "deterioration"? I'm not sure where microgravity == live forever came from either, but I haven't heard anything about harm from it beyond the whole "will (eventually) be crippled upon return to normal gravity". Source?

~J
nezumi
QUOTE (Kagetenshi)
Define "deterioration"? I'm not sure where microgravity == live forever came from either, but I haven't heard anything about harm from it beyond the whole "will (eventually) be crippled upon return to normal gravity". Source?

~J

I have. The idea is that the constant gravity allows us to grow sufficient bone density and also forces our muscles (specifically the heart) to get a sufficient work-out that it is able to pump blood at this gravity. Prolonged time in microgravity results in loss of both and subsequent problems. I believe some of the cosmonauts in Mir suffered from some minor problems due to lack of excercise. No one has died from it, however.

Wiki has some stuff on it in brief. I'm sure you could google more if you wanted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microgravity#...#Health_effects
Slithery D
My favorite space related health hazard I read about last week is cosmic rays that destroy brain cells. Apparently it can't be effectively shielded, and the Apollo astronauts saw interesting flashes when they took periodic hits. But staying in low orbit is fairly safe except for one anomalous magnetic hole somewhere over Brazil.

I think microgravity is supposed to (and probably does) reduce the deletorious cosmetic affects of aging. Less jowl and ass sag, in other words. Actual health effects, however, seem to be negative.
Kagetenshi
QUOTE (nezumi)
I have. <snip>

Yeah, that's what I mentioned above, and it's bad if you want to return to a gravity well, but I've yet to see anything that indicates that it's a maladaptation in its environment, that is to say microgravity. Have you seen anything like that?

~J
FrankTrollman
Oh heck yes. The body simply doesn't produce everything that it's supposed to in microgravity. Your blood cells, your bone density, and your muscle mass go to shit. Eventually your entire circulatory system collapses and you die. It's ugly.

But with Shadowrun technology you can apparently overcome that and live forever in specially prepared biospheres in space. And if we're accepting that option 2 is "Become a Shadowrun Mage" then it seems logical that we can assume that you can actually do that.

Sure, you can put on your Formula Pact, but that only keeps you alive until the next down cycle. Then you die. The technological answers to this problem apparently don't have a time cap.


"I want to live forever, of course. But barring that, I'll settle for a few thousand years. even five hundred would be pretty nice."
-NwabudikeMorgan

-Frank
Shrike30
Being tougher/faster/stronger has loads of applications in daily life. Don't want to take the stairs down from your fourth-story apartment? Fire up those hydraulics and step off the balcony. Tired of carting around your cel phone, your sidearm, your spare change for the bus? Tuck 'em into your body. Feel like jogging to work instead of driving today? Make the run... on the highway. Tired of the few people who still call you a friend wondering, late at night, if you're reading their minds or emotion-controlling their girlfriend so that she cheats on them with you? Shoulda been a street sam...
John Campbell
QUOTE (Shrike30)
Being tougher/faster/stronger has loads of applications in daily life.  Don't want to take the stairs down from your fourth-story apartment?

Levitate.

QUOTE
Tired of carting around your cel phone,

Headware phones are fairly low-Essence, and not exactly one of the high-performance combat mods that define "street samurai". Or you could just get one of those little ones that you stick in your ear.

QUOTE
your sidearm,

Manabolt.

QUOTE
your spare change for the bus?

Again, not exactly a high-performance combat mod. And you could get a credstick that you can stick in your ear to balance the phone.

QUOTE
Feel like jogging to work instead of driving today?

Movement power.

QUOTE
Tired of the few people who still call you a friend wondering, late at night, if you're reading their minds or emotion-controlling their girlfriend so that she cheats on them with you?

Read their minds and emotion-control them so they stop thinking things like that. And then go make out with their girlfriends.
Squinky
And after that, pass out from the drain.
Shrike30
Hey, my point was that you could do fantastic shit *without* being magic, not that you couldn't duplicate some stuff using magic. And in the meantime, I'll stick with not having an ability that makes me a social outcast.
Squinky
Agreed, Screw being a freaky mage. I'm gonna go for the chrome cyber skull and kid stealth legs! Word on the street is the chicks dig it.
Sicarius
unfortunately I'm not sure sure about the social outcast portion Shrike30. at least under SR3 rules the street sams suffer from being made social outcasts more than the spell-chuckers. (and I agree with you I picked Street Sam too)

I always thought the rule was kind of stupid. You mean to tell me that people can't wrap their little minds around some applied technology but the weird guy who spends his time conversing with all sort of spooky ghosties which the average person can have NO concept of is a social butter fly?
Slithery D
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
Sure, you can put on your Formula Pact, but that only keeps you alive until the next down cycle. Then you die. The technological answers to this problem apparently don't have a time cap.

I'm not sure where you got that latter point. The only relevant SR references to microgravity I know of have been to life extension, not a permanent halt to aging. Anyway, for those who aren't bioindex maxed out cyberzombies Leonizatoin treatments seem the better bet. You actually get younger and can stay on Earth.
Glyph
In the game, they both have their good points. In real life, I'd definitely choose the mage. I don't do shadowruns for a living, so I have no interest in being a cybered to the max sammie. Some of that stuff is unpleasant, cosmetically obvious, and prone to bad side effects such as twitchiness, not to mention the colder personality that an extremely low Essense gives you.

Mages, on the other hand, have so many spells to make their lives easier. Cure your cold, or your hangover. Give yourself the equivalent of a deep massage and spa treatment. Turn your dirty, rumpled clothes into clean, pressed, and the latest fashion. Cut your finger, or break your arm? Cure it. And then there are all of the services that you can get from spirits.

Now, it would have been more of a difficult decision if the mundane option had been "You are someone with an optimal mix of life-enhancing cyberware and bioware. If I had perfect vision, improved senses, clean metabolism bioware, enhanced articulation, some muscle augmentation and toner, dietware, could plug myself into my computer and manipulate it by thought, had the equivalent of an Ipod, a cell phone, and a movie camera inside my head, and so on... then the choice between that and magic would be a lot tougher.
Vaevictis
For my money, give me the bloody decker junk, not the sammy stuff.

Gimme a datajack. Give me a knowsoft link and headware memory. Give me an encephalon. Give me a math coprocessor and a cerebral booster. Give me a mnemonic enhancer. Give me one of those regulator thingies so I sleep less. Stick a cell phone in my head and give me a transducer. Put an image link in my eyeballs. Give me age rejuvenation.

All this stuff is way more useful than all the street sam garbage, unless your only goal is to separate someone from his or her internal organs.

Wanderer
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Sep 26 2006, 03:37 AM)
QUOTE (Slithery D @ Sep 25 2006, 09:27 PM)
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Sep 25 2006, 08:47 PM)
I intend to go to space and live forever. The pure of essence can stay in their gravity well and die of natural causes if they want. Fuck that.

My formula spirit pact can beat up your microgravity!

For what, 5,000 years? What then smarty pants?!

-Frank

Well, by the current technological and magical level of development, microgravity is really a crappy way at longevity, since it seems (judging from Wilhelmina Benoit's example) that it can add at most some decades of lifespan (as it may be expected from biological realities: lack of gravity takes away some causes of aging, but definitely not all). Comparable to one optimized leonization run. Far better to invest your money in that, and avoid sequestering yourself in orbit for decades.

Leonization is quite better, but for it being really efficient at increasing lifespan, you need to let yourself age up to biological 60-80 years age every time, so it's not ongoing youth, and it can give (by available SR3 rules) 300-400 years at most before your system shuts down. Of course, this may change if Augmentation will take away the Essence price tag on leonization entirely, but I'm skeptic about it (reducing the Essence cost of the treament would be very nice, though, as SR3 price was excessive to game usefulness, and it would be an expected effect of ongoing scientific development).

By comparison, magical means (formula spirit pact, hidden life free spirit power, HMHVV-I/III infection -vampire, wendigo, banshee, nosferatu; unfortunately I've never understood whether dzoo-noo-qua and goblin keep sentience, so HMHVV may suck as a longevity method for dwarves and trolls-) is garanteed to work at least till the next downswing of mana, 5000 yrs. in the future, barring violent death.

If I were a SR character of means and learning, eager for real immortality, I'd start searching a free spirit or vampire that is able and willing to grant the dream/life/formula pact package, Hidden Life, or Infection, to a reasonable price.

The free spirit route is preferable if you are already Awakened, HMHVV is you are mundane and a human/ork/elf.
Sicarius
Of course the irony of this whole thread is that the majority are choosing a path which can't be chosen. SR says one doesn't have the choice to awaken or not. Where as anyone with the nuyen can load up on the cyber-bioware.
Wanderer
QUOTE (Sicarius @ Sep 27 2006, 03:17 PM)
Of course the irony of this whole thread is that the majority are choosing a path which can't be chosen. SR says one doesn't have the choice to awaken or not. Where as anyone with the nuyen can load up on the cyber-bioware.

If you are willing and able to track down and successfully bargain with a vampire, nosferatu or wendigo, you can reliably Awaken without the right genes. It's about 70% efficiency if you are human and get the power from a vampire, 100% from a nosferatu. Ditto for orks. Sure, being an Infected has its social drawbacks and the mandated secret predatory lifestyle, but any really successful runner or corporate shark is already a social predator with plenty of blood on his hands, and a record of felonies worth a couple life/capital sentences or lynchings if caught.
Slithery D
QUOTE (Wanderer)
Leonization is quite better, but for it being really efficient at increasing lifespan, you need to let yourself age up to biological 60-80 years age every time, so it's not ongoing youth, and it can give (by available SR3 rules) 300-400 years at most before your system shuts down. Of course, this may change if Augmentation will take away the Essence price tag on leonization entirely, but I'm skeptic about it (reducing the Essence cost of the treament would be very nice, though, as SR3 price was excessive to game usefulness, and it would be an expected effect of ongoing scientific development).

Dude, it's a radical full body change. Costing a point of Essense/Bio Index (whichever was in SOTA 2063) is hardly unreasonable. And given how cheap it was at a coupla three million, presumably the real rich get a half impact delta version at the really exclusive Swiss clinics. The fact that this is inconvenient for cyberzombies is beside the point, and hardly likely to hurt their sales very much. And if it were money cheap enough for players it would be common enough to be massively socially disruptive. Less than 0.1% of the population in wealthy countries getting a few trips back to their younger days is one thing. Even as much as 1-2% would cause lots of interesting social stuff the developers don't want to have to think about.

I liked that SOTA 2063's Leonization mentioned a requirement for an original young DNA sample to be in storage so that they have an undamaged template to return to. Leonization always presented a problem with early SR old guys running corps - why aren't they using it? Why did Wilhelmina Graff-Beloit die? Clearly she was too old when the technique was invented to benefit! Very good retconning, guys.
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