So, my char is being followed. He walks around a corner, I yell 'Disguise' tho the GM, roll my dice, and just a moment later my char's pursuers don't recognize him anymore.
Somehow I think that's not the way it should be.
Full Version: Disguise Skill
It would work if you ahd some kind of quick change disguise kit on you, say a hat that you can put on and clothes that can change colour(a standard option these days. Basically disguise needs props to work and you really should be penalised for doing it in a hurry.
Is this a serious question?
I agree. Note to myself: install the color changing option
I just can't get my head around what those penalties could be.
For disguising in a hurry I could probably increase the Threshold.
But the other stuff... I should probably pull off my bright red coat, hunch my shoulders and walk differently. I have no Idea how to handle that.
And yeah, this question is serious. How do other people handle the intricacies of Disguise?
I just can't get my head around what those penalties could be.
For disguising in a hurry I could probably increase the Threshold.
But the other stuff... I should probably pull off my bright red coat, hunch my shoulders and walk differently. I have no Idea how to handle that.
And yeah, this question is serious. How do other people handle the intricacies of Disguise?
Mostly my disguise prone PCs douse themselves in nanopaste set to one disguise when they set out and if they need a quick change load an alternate program into it. I as a ref would give a serious bonus (+4 or more) to the perception test of anyone trying to notice someone who'd just dumped theri coat and hunched a bit.
Ok, well, it obviously doesn't work the way you have it laid out in the example in your first post, so of that you can be glad.
Disguise assumes you have preparation time. When time is an issue, you just have to be realistic about what you can get accomplished and how effective it can be. Increase threshold or apply a dice penalty. Even so, you need to know when to apply common sense over what the dice say.
Disguise assumes you have preparation time. When time is an issue, you just have to be realistic about what you can get accomplished and how effective it can be. Increase threshold or apply a dice penalty. Even so, you need to know when to apply common sense over what the dice say.
There are a few movies out that have some quick improvised disguises in them. Often stuff grabbed in a convenience store and a bit of mis-direction.
Ex.: After you break LOS for a few seconds, drop your fedora hat on someone your size, as well as your trench coat, say that they are a gift. Move away in a different direction, hunch, limp, your choice of change. Don't react when your pursures follow the fedora. Works best in crowded area with lots of travelers (subway, train station, etc..)
Female enters store, get's some scissors, sparkles, shawl, make-up. Changes the lond dress into a mini-skirt (or shorts), often same with top, add sparkles and such to clothing, make-up change (Goth?), shawl/bandana over hair, leave on the arm of some guy that thinks he is going to get lucky.
Ex.: After you break LOS for a few seconds, drop your fedora hat on someone your size, as well as your trench coat, say that they are a gift. Move away in a different direction, hunch, limp, your choice of change. Don't react when your pursures follow the fedora. Works best in crowded area with lots of travelers (subway, train station, etc..)
Female enters store, get's some scissors, sparkles, shawl, make-up. Changes the lond dress into a mini-skirt (or shorts), often same with top, add sparkles and such to clothing, make-up change (Goth?), shawl/bandana over hair, leave on the arm of some guy that thinks he is going to get lucky.
I would say with quick-change Disguise just boost the Threshold by 1, maybe 2 based on how well the player character acts out someone else. If they have a nanopaste disguise, let them do a quick computer+edit test with Threshold 3 or something to adjust a few of the features (flatter nose, larger nostrils, plumper lips, etc.).
you could also use a holograph projector for disguise purposes to some extent. the changes would be best off being minimal, but it could certainly help.
There are all kinds of variations on this that defy easy rulemaking. Turning a corner and switching hats and reversing your jacket isn't worth much if there are only a couple of other people on the street and no alleys or doorways you could have entered to disappear. Entering a bathroom in a busy airport, putting some gray in your hair, putting on a janitor-looking shirt, stuffing your old shirt in the belly to make you look fat, grabbing a trash bag to look like a janitor, hunching a bit, and then following out a big group of loud Texas businessmen in cowboy hats, on the other hand, is worth a bit more to get away without being recognized.
(Latter scenario taken from the spy novel Declare. But they caught up with him anyway when his contact proved to be working for the other side. Tsk, tsk.)
(Latter scenario taken from the spy novel Declare. But they caught up with him anyway when his contact proved to be working for the other side. Tsk, tsk.)
Hmm:
As mentioned alot of modifiers to this depending on situation.
1) Nobody else on street/passway/etc.
Would give the person following you a pretty good bonus (perhaps -threshold) to noticing you. dont care if you gain 100 pounds, turned purple and morphed into a dinosaur, if you the only thing in the room, the person is going to be looking at you REAL clsoe and/or still questioning you.
2) Other people around. each of them would probably get a percoption+intution(6-your successes) test to 'notice' something funny as you change your appearance. The point being the less you look like 'you' the more likely they will spot you 'changing' now its up to the character on how they would react, but kids might call out 'hey mom look that guys face is melting', other might figure something bad is about to happen and get out of the area rapidly, if a guard type was there he might very well come over and question you (or keep an eye on you), etc.
Putting on a 'disguise' where others can see it is very likely to attract attention if the changes are signficant.
Now if you can get enough of a lead on your pursuer to, duck into someplace by yoruself.
Disguise (however it takes depending on your GM and what you are doing)
and then move back into a crowd...
Then you almost certainly could slip your purser unless they are tracking you somehow (RFID, aura, etc)
peace
As mentioned alot of modifiers to this depending on situation.
1) Nobody else on street/passway/etc.
Would give the person following you a pretty good bonus (perhaps -threshold) to noticing you. dont care if you gain 100 pounds, turned purple and morphed into a dinosaur, if you the only thing in the room, the person is going to be looking at you REAL clsoe and/or still questioning you.
2) Other people around. each of them would probably get a percoption+intution(6-your successes) test to 'notice' something funny as you change your appearance. The point being the less you look like 'you' the more likely they will spot you 'changing' now its up to the character on how they would react, but kids might call out 'hey mom look that guys face is melting', other might figure something bad is about to happen and get out of the area rapidly, if a guard type was there he might very well come over and question you (or keep an eye on you), etc.
Putting on a 'disguise' where others can see it is very likely to attract attention if the changes are signficant.
Now if you can get enough of a lead on your pursuer to, duck into someplace by yoruself.
Disguise (however it takes depending on your GM and what you are doing)
and then move back into a crowd...
Then you almost certainly could slip your purser unless they are tracking you somehow (RFID, aura, etc)
peace
| QUOTE (Butterblume @ Sep 26 2006, 10:04 AM) |
| So, my char is being followed. He walks around a corner, I yell 'Disguise' tho the GM, roll my dice, and just a moment later my char's pursuers don't recognize him anymore. Somehow I think that's not the way it should be. |
I might be inclined to make that particular situation come down to a Shadowing. After all they not only have to look like they are someone else and belong there, but they also then have to slip away like they are someone that should be going the other way.
So if they were also trying to Disguise quickly I'd have them make that Test against a fixed Threshold for extra dice. Depending on the timing particulars and player intent likely a Threshold of around a 4 or 5. The net difference applying to the Shadowing roll. So if they roll below the target they lose dice, if they roll above they gain, and if they hit on the nose it is neither gain nor loss.
EDIT: You can think of this as the escapee sort of using the helping rules to help themselves on the Shadowing Test using their own Disguise skill.
If I thought they were being praticularly ballsy about pushing for an advantage I'd say let them know they are raising the stakes. So say, perhaps even on top of extra dice for exceeding the Diguise Threshold, that if they met the Diguise Threshold it would add to the pursuer's Threshold in trying to Oppose their Shadowing roll. But if they fail to reach the Disguse Threshold they get caught in the act of trying to change and they are busted in the act of trying to quick change.
BTW this take on things is not so based that much on the particulars in the SR4 book as it is heavily influenced by a game system that I consider a stellar example of how to do dice pools where this would fall into the realm of a pursuit Linked Test.
Thanks for the input so far.
I get the impression that the GM should limit the number of possible hits on the disguise test, depending on the props used.
Getting rid of the coat is barely worth a roll, and can only work if the opposiotion is really dumb, distracted, the area is crowded etc (so, 1 hit max, for example).
How about changing one's voice?
I get the impression that the GM should limit the number of possible hits on the disguise test, depending on the props used.
Getting rid of the coat is barely worth a roll, and can only work if the opposiotion is really dumb, distracted, the area is crowded etc (so, 1 hit max, for example).
How about changing one's voice?
Uhm, actually, it can kind of work the way you want in the example, and even with the "taking off a coat" option. If you're of the appropriate build (IE, average), and there's a crowd, it's pretty easy to ditch any urban pursuit by breaking line of sight for maybe five seconds, and knowing what you're doing. And even the "knowing what you're doing" part isn't a matter of super secret spy stuff -- it's slouching or standing up straighter, changing your torso coloration (by far the number one visual recognition cue), and just generally not standing out in the crowd.
I might not say for sure the Disguise skill is the way to go with this when you're actually out to break a tail (that would be Shadowing, I believe), but just generally speaking the question posed in the first question really isn't all that out there.
If you've got a crowd to disappear into, and you're not outlandishly different from that crowd (very tall, very short, or very fat), you can vanish pretty damned easily. And, well, even if you're very tall or very short, if you know how to change that aspect of yourself, you can pull it off. When someone's looking for "the guy in the red shirt," and you break line of site, change your posture/height (in either direction), and suddenly have on a blue shirt? It really is pretty easy to ditch people.
But that's for humans, today, disappearing into a crowd of humans. If you're a dwarf trying this shit in Tarislar, an ork in the Tir, an elf in the Ork Underground, or a troll anywhere, well, that falls under the "increase the threshold until it's pretty much impossible" heading.
I might not say for sure the Disguise skill is the way to go with this when you're actually out to break a tail (that would be Shadowing, I believe), but just generally speaking the question posed in the first question really isn't all that out there.
If you've got a crowd to disappear into, and you're not outlandishly different from that crowd (very tall, very short, or very fat), you can vanish pretty damned easily. And, well, even if you're very tall or very short, if you know how to change that aspect of yourself, you can pull it off. When someone's looking for "the guy in the red shirt," and you break line of site, change your posture/height (in either direction), and suddenly have on a blue shirt? It really is pretty easy to ditch people.
But that's for humans, today, disappearing into a crowd of humans. If you're a dwarf trying this shit in Tarislar, an ork in the Tir, an elf in the Ork Underground, or a troll anywhere, well, that falls under the "increase the threshold until it's pretty much impossible" heading.
If they are talking to you, you are probably already in trouble. 
But if your disguise is good, and they are asking "did you see...", then yes, changing your voice is a very good idea, as long as the new voice and word choice matches your new apperance.
But if your disguise is good, and they are asking "did you see...", then yes, changing your voice is a very good idea, as long as the new voice and word choice matches your new apperance.
| QUOTE (Butterblume @ Sep 27 2006, 09:38 AM) |
| Getting rid of the coat is barely worth a roll, and can only work if the opposiotion is really dumb, distracted, the area is crowded etc (so, 1 hit max, for example). |
I likely wouldn't bother with a Diguise roll for that either. I'd just say doing something that simple is an automatic success and what it does is allow them an opposed Shadowing roll to attempt to blend and melt away. Depending on how good a look the pursuer had of your face, how well they know you , and how much the non-coat part of you stands out there could be other modifiers involved. For example the Blandness Quality is likely to come into play here if the escapee has that. Maybe even a bonus just for the description of actions if I thought they gave a particularly well thought out or tres cool explaination of what they were doing with the coat to ditch it.
In this particular scenario the pursuers are not trailing behind, but trying to catch up. So rolling Shadowing isn't appropriate, I think. At least that's what I had in mind, without saying so.
Other scenario:
My char wants to disguise as cleaning staff personnel to get into that building. He obviously needs a cleaning staff uniform. Since he is in no hurry, he tries several times until he is satisfied with the outcome.
Now I can't remember what my question was...
Other scenario:
My char wants to disguise as cleaning staff personnel to get into that building. He obviously needs a cleaning staff uniform. Since he is in no hurry, he tries several times until he is satisfied with the outcome.
Now I can't remember what my question was...
Disguise could have been complimentary to Stealth to Shadowing rolls.
| QUOTE (Butterblume @ Sep 27 2006, 01:08 PM) |
| In this particular scenario the pursuers are not trailing behind, but trying to catch up. So rolling Shadowing isn't appropriate, I think. At least that's what I had in mind, without saying so. |
It is still a pretty good Skill match though when you look at what you are doing, trying to hide and move around in plain sight. If instead you were trying to not be noticed by not being seen at all I'd give it an Infiltration roll and likely not Disguise, unless perhaps you were trying to quickly change into camo clothing or something.
Now if you actively sought out to talk with the pursuer and bring attention to yourself, but pretend you were someone else, then Disguise would be the better fit. Or perhaps Con(Fasttalk) depending on how you approached it.
good points blakkie
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