Shadowdragon:

WHile the rules are giving for going through a ward (not by you) that you attempt to go through.

Does this apply if the 'sustaining' mage (NOT the target) goes through the ward......

(or what if the 'target' goes through a ward, (his lodge) but the sustaining mage is outside the ward)

Going from memory (and perhaps it was house rules).

SR3 Spell defense, needed LOS to establish but had a moderate range it could 'extend' past LOS once 'on the person' (IIRC Magicx10m or so). (though as mentions this could have been house/web rule we used).

Now SR4 specifically requires LOS for spell defense (well counterspelling).... which is what prompted the whole sustaining question does it require LOS.

Metaplanes dont think likely will be an issue. the bigger question is LOS.... Our (and this point would really have to read books to see if house rule or SR3 RAW) sustaining was not LOS but Maigc * 10m range (same for spell defense (once estalbihed not setting up).

Well with Counterseplling (sr4 spell defense) being LOS ONLY, that raised the question on sustaining.... Can you armor/deflect the sammy, then have him jump around the corner?

Hmm Havent gone through SM yet (so it might say they can) but where in BBB does it mention that spirits can maintain from metaplanes.

Spell Sustaining: Since your are talking combat turns (Force turns per service) it seems unlikely that they spirit could go to the metaplanes whiel sustaining the spell, more importnatly nothing says they CAN.

Spell Binding: Again nothing says they spirit can go elsewhere and IMO the interrpertation that it uses the spirits life force to power the spell and all services are gone when released, pretty much implies your are hardwiring the spirit to the spell... 'Trapping' it in the spell itself. so the spirit is always 'there' and couldnt go anyplace else (and if not released before it runs out of energy is gone forever).

Don't see anything SR4 that implies a spirit could sustain a spelll from the meta-planes (unless SM gives it but havent really gone through SM yet).

I was referring to sustaining the spell until it becomes permanent, and whether or not touch would be required the entire time, or just for the initial casting.

That's a good idea - I think I might steal that

Shadowdragon for SR3 or SR4...

Seems a little overpowered in SR4 since SR4 doesn't 'drain' (dice).

SR3 you allocated 6 dice from your pool and then 'put a shield' over people. When magics tried to affect them you could use the energy to try to protect them. (but multiple castings and spell defense went bye bye)...

SR4 counterseplling doesn't decrease. One magician could protect the team from 1000 casters all casting individual spells (as long as he wasnt taken out of the fight)...

with how counterspelling works in SR4 I would stick with the LOS requirement.

Now if you mean for taking the rule for sustaining, then yeah thats what I think I will do, unless the developers answer it one way or the other. (hell I might do it even if they DO answer it).

Now for counterspelling... I think I would have no problem with a meta-magic techniqieue that allowed coutnerspelling to work outside of LOS.

Extended Coutnerspelling.
With this ability a mage may provide coutnerspelling to an individual while not maintaining LOS.

LOS is required to establish the shielding aura, but is not required to 'maintain' it. Up to (iniate grade) people can be protected and they may be up to magic * 10m away from the protecting mage while still being protected.

While protected a noticable astral aura is one them that contains the protecting mages signature, likeise the protecting mage will show as 'active' on the atral.

If the protected person moves out side of the range, or if the concentration is broken on the protecting mage, the protection is lost until it can be re-established (in range and LOS). Losing conciousness will cause the mage to loss concentration, others are GM call. (I.E. Overwhelimg emotion/control spells (fear powers, etc) that force actions on players, but dont force loss of conciousness).

(Note SM might make the above redunant, but havent gone through it completely yet)

Just tdoubled checked.

SM has no rules for changing 'spell defense', now some meta-magics use their own rules and special effects instead, but for good old counterspelling-spell defense it uses the BBB.

page 175 (pdf 13) of BBB:
"A protected character must also stay withing the magicians line of sight in order for counterspelling to be used."

Pretty stragiht forward and clear.... If you want protection your mana-slinger needs to have you in sight.....!!!!!!!!!!


So while SR3 I always playedas your mention (though cant swear if it is RAW or not).... SR4 LOS is REQUIRED for counterspelling/spell defense. NOT when the mage 'says he is protecting, XYZ... but (and probably in truth both) when the roll is actually made....

At first I was against the idea of LOS required to sustain spells, but this really put it into perspective for me.

So I thought about it and I agree that you can't sustain spells at any range, and then I thought about the chance that there might be a few instances that you might need to that doesn't seem like a stretch or outside of the intended game balance.

Say we want to send an infiltrator into a building under a physical mask spell, obviously we all can't go in and lets say its a big enough building (skyrise) that he'd get out of any magic/3 range stuff.

now i'm feeling 50/50, because to me theres nothing wrong with this scenerio.

What we need is a rule that can bypass the limitation of LOS to sustain while still making the requirement the standard.

How about using the magicians bonded sustaining focus to sustain a spell at any range on someone else, or letting a spirit sustain it for you in those instances of long range or out of sight for a service?

And if you are a mystic adept who doesn't want to waste a point of magic or if you don't want to be vulnerable to being eaten by astraly projecting dragons just decause you are invisible?

Is this evidence that Astral Perception wouldn't help?