Dumpshock Forums > Sample Characters, Redux

lorechaser

Sep 29 2006, 07:07 PM

I didn't find anything like this via searching, but I could have weak Search-fu.

A number of people seem to be looking at the Sample Characters in the book, and we know we don't want folks to do that.

So I'm proposing the learned members of DS create the realistic versions of those characters.

I'm going to start with our maligned favorite, the Covert Ops specialist. I'm going to keep the new version as close to the original as I can, for ease of use.

Here's my version of the character, now with items she can use! Feel free to tack on your own, either modified versions, or completely new samples.... This one isn't entirely optimized either, but it's close to the original in feel, I think. If desired, you could turn the cyber eyes and ears in to gear easily enough.

[ Spoiler ]

Brahm

Sep 29 2006, 07:59 PM

Great idea! I call dibs on doing the.....Toxic Ecoterror Shaman. Ok, so it's not quite core book. But it is core books.

Aaron

Sep 29 2006, 08:04 PM

Did you notice that you went over on attributes?

Brahm

Sep 29 2006, 08:08 PM

No he didn't. It is only 200BP excluding the 20 BP for Edge. Coming right up to the boundery limit on Attributes usually isn't optimal, but the character still looks fairly functional.

Aaron

Sep 29 2006, 08:18 PM

QUOTE (Brahm)

No he didn't. It is only 200BP excluding the 20 BP for Edge. Coming right up to the boundery limit on Attributes usually isn't optimal, but the character still looks fairly functional.

True dat. Sorry, wasn't thinking.

lorechaser

Sep 29 2006, 09:21 PM

Indeed - building from scratch, I would have adjusted stats a bit, but those are basically the stats from the book.

cx2

Sep 30 2006, 01:18 AM

I'm really sorry to do this but...

I could be wrong, but I thought max BP for cash was 25... and physical damage track should probably be 10 with body 3.

lorechaser

Sep 30 2006, 01:46 AM

50 is max for gear. 25 you actually can't even get Synaptic Boosters 2.

And yeah, it should be 10 - good catch. Edited.

yesman

Sep 30 2006, 02:36 AM

well, they're not exactly remakes of the Archtypes from the book... but here are a few sample characters I made to use in some quick start-ups with friends. They should be legit, and I think most are fairly well put together...

http://www.smarmybastard.com/srun/

lorechaser

Sep 30 2006, 02:42 AM

Excellent! I like the ork combat shaman. Specialization KISS covers indeed.

Dranem

Sep 30 2006, 05:31 AM

Just a note as I'm going through your sample characters: Cultured Bioware is not allowed at chargen....

kzt

Sep 30 2006, 06:13 AM

QUOTE (Dranem)

Just a note as I'm going through your sample characters: Cultured Bioware is not allowed at chargen....

Why? That isn't what the game rules say. . .

Glyph

Sep 30 2006, 07:12 AM

The cultured bioware restriction was only in third edition, and only as a suggestion in the FAQ. In SR4, the only restrictions that I have come across are gear rating (6) and availability (12). Keep in mind that in the SR4 timeline, bioware has been around for longer.

On the flip side, the availability rules affect what ratings of cyberware and bioware can be acquired much more than in SR3 - muscle replacement or augmentation/toner can only be taken up to level: 2 at char-gen, for example. But this is part of the game balance, since Attributes are so much more important in SR4.

Slithery D

Sep 30 2006, 07:48 AM

Taking the Hammerli with its minimal ammo capacity is slightly more crazy than having a rocket launcher with no rockets. At least you can keep clubbing people with a rocket launcher without having to reload every combat turn.

Stephen_E

Sep 30 2006, 09:06 AM

QUOTE (Brahm)

Coming right up to the boundery limit on Attributes usually isn't optimal, but the character still looks fairly functional.

Why is hitting the Attribute boundary exactly usually not optimal?

Stephen

knel

Sep 30 2006, 10:15 AM

QUOTE (Slithery D)

Taking the Hammerli with its minimal ammo capacity is slightly more crazy than having a rocket launcher with no rockets.

I like the silenced target pistol from a role-playing perspective. Think Splinter Cell. That's how (most) Shadowruns should go down.

cx2

Sep 30 2006, 10:27 AM

Yeah, I realised I screwed up the gear BP limit. Sorry.

And now cultured bioware is just a category, like you get cyber categories "headware" and "bodyware". The only limits aside from available cash are rating limit 6, availibility 12 and no cyber or bio above Alpha grade if I recall.

What was once "cultured bioware" has been split into the stuff that only came in cultured as a category, and the higher grade bioware which has been put into the same grade system as cyberware.

toturi

Sep 30 2006, 02:33 PM

QUOTE (Stephen_E)

QUOTE (Brahm @ Sep 29 2006, 03:08 PM)

Coming right up to the boundery limit on Attributes usually isn't optimal, but the character still looks fairly functional.

Why is hitting the Attribute boundary exactly usually not optimal?

Stephen

Because you spend 25 pts for that last 1 point boost to the Attribute maximum. If your max is 6, then 1 to 5 is 10 ot each and 25 for that 6th point.

Slithery D

Sep 30 2006, 03:36 PM

QUOTE (cx2)

What was once "cultured bioware" has been split into the stuff that only came in cultured as a category, and the higher grade bioware which has been put into the same grade system as cyberware.

Actually, the consensus when I brought this up a couple of weeks ago was that all bio can be purchased in cyber grades for essence reduction. Cultured just can't be bought off the shelf and installed right away with some quick magical healing after for a fast boost before a run; you'll need some time to have the parts grown for your specific gene code.

cx2

Sep 30 2006, 03:40 PM

Which is just fluff about how cultured bioware works rather than any integral mechanic in the rules.

Xenefungus

Sep 30 2006, 03:42 PM

What is this to tell us? IMHO it's stupid to max out an attribute - better buy the exceptional attribute quality and rise it for standard costs. 5 BP more, but you are able to invest two more points into attributes. And attributes are important - So why should anyone spend less than 200BP into attributes?

Rotbart van Dainig

Sep 30 2006, 03:44 PM

Sure... but the important thing is that, if you are willig to pay the 2.4M¥, you get 4 IPs for 0,75 Essence... before splitting.

Stephen_E

Sep 30 2006, 04:38 PM

QUOTE (toturi)

QUOTE (Stephen_E @ Sep 30 2006, 05:06 PM)

QUOTE (Brahm @ Sep 29 2006, 03:08 PM)

Coming right up to the boundery limit on Attributes usually isn't optimal, but the character still looks fairly functional.

Why is hitting the Attribute boundary exactly usually not optimal?

Stephen

Because you spend 25 pts for that last 1 point boost to the Attribute maximum. If your max is 6, then 1 to 5 is 10 ot each and 25 for that 6th point.

Since none of Lorechaser's build had the max in an attribute I intepreted the poster was refering to the 200pt max for the 8 physical/mental stats combined.

So to recap - why would it be considered sub-optimal to spend the max possible on attributes.

Stephen

lorechaser

Sep 30 2006, 04:40 PM

QUOTE (knel)

I like the silenced target pistol from a role-playing perspective. Think Splinter Cell. That's how (most) Shadowruns should go down.

Ha!

Random sidenote: knel is my GM. See my character under the machine pistols thread to guess how many of our runs are likely to go down like that.

cx2

Sep 30 2006, 05:13 PM

On the whole attributes are a better investment if you have a lot os skills that use that attribute. For example if you have both firearms and close combat groups you could improve either one for 10 bp, or add the same 1 dice to both with 10bp. Even if you don't have both groups let's assume you have say clubs, pistols and longarms. To improve all of them by 1 dice would cost either 12bp to improve the skills, or 10bp to increase the attribute.

Also increasing body and willpower to 5 might cost 40bp from a baseline human, but would add one box to each damage monitor if this is your primary concern.

On the other hand I like the idea of making the stats fit the character, justifying every point in each skill and attribute by their background. Thus you might not be able to justify putting your stats up to the 200bp cap. In terms of optimising though I don't see why hitting 200bp would be a negative thing.

Eyeless Blond

Sep 30 2006, 08:48 PM

Mostly because, Karma-wise, attributes are the cheapest thing to raise for your BP value. Looking wholly in terms of math, and not playability, the best "bang for your buck" is to keep all attributes at 1 and spend it all on skills, then buy up the attributes with karma.

Of course such a character wouldn't survive his first run. So the trade off is essentially short-term survivability versus long-term advancement: someone who spends 200BP on attributes is going to be flushing his future karmic advancement doen the toilet having to pay for more expensive, yet less useful skills and skill groups post-chargen, but he's more likely to actually *see* that karma than the other guy.

The whole thing is an artifact of the silly system of BP for chargen and Karma for advancement that the devs kept in for what I can only imagine were legacy reasons. It would be much easier, more streamlined, and more practical to simply unify chargen and advancement, but it seems that this was the only holy cow the devs couldn't bring themselves to kill.

Butterblume

Sep 30 2006, 09:36 PM

My latest draft for a (non archetype) character looks something like this:

Dwarf
Attributes (180+20)

Bod 3
Agi 5(6)
Rea 1(2)
Str 3
Cha 2
Int 5
Log 5
Wil 6

Edge 2
Magic 2(1) <- reduction through essence loss

I think you could call it a min/maxing approach, getting some stats as high as possible while not spending much on the rest. I think something like this will be very playable from the beginning, and save some karma in the long run.

But to say something on topic: in case of bad weather tomorrow or sometimes next week, I'll pimp one of the archetypes.

EDIT: I forgot to add, I'd love some kind of non linear chargen system. Best based on Karma, of course. I probably should take a look on Secks (or whatever it's called), but I would prefer something official...

Stephen_E

Oct 1 2006, 02:21 AM

OK. This is my attempt at a tweaked Gunslinger Adept.
I've slightly lowered her General Firearms ability and increased he Pistols ability.
This is because if you look at her equipment she is purely Pistols.
Also I've done my best to actually give her a "one shot, one kill" capacity, as per her motto.

[ Spoiler ]

Essentailly there have been some attribute changes, Firearm Skills, 3 less Knowledge skills, Qualities - I'm not really upto scratch on Spirits, so I'm unclear if Toxic Spirits is a feasible choice, but it seemed to go with the pollutant allergy.
Adept Powers have changed, and guns. I went for the Ruger Super Warhawk as her prime weapon, firing alternate Revolvers each simple action, thus giving her the full dice pool - (assuming a average Attritbute boost) 21 dice pool for 8 DV, -4 AP, or Called Shot 17 dice pool for 12 DV, -4 AP. The 2nd shot will be at a further -2 for 2nd target. At the very least the 1st target won't be standing, and will probably be in the process of dying.

If you want to wind it down slightly I'd lose the Exceptional Attribute quality and drop Ag by 1, increasing Will, Logic & Int (Going 1st is good). The other possibility for Attritbute Boost is Reaction, again improving Init (remember whoever she shoots at isn't shooting back).

Stephen

lorechaser

Oct 1 2006, 02:57 AM

That's a very nice Gunslinger.