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zeb.hillard
So, I talked with one of my players in the game I run and he's willing to trade off with me to run side-missions for myself and the other two players that his character wouldn't necessarily be called on (He's like...ethical, and won't do wetwork). So, I slapped together this Mage-Killer Adept while at work today and was curious if everything I did was legit (I'm fairly sure it is). BP limits on abilities don't matter, as he's coming in at 400BPs to a group that has Karma.

The character concept is very simple, geek the mage. The players have recently found out the power of spell-throwers, and I know the player will be using them, so I decided to use this to level the playing field slightly. With 12 dice for personal counterspelling, and unarmed damage that can kill just about anyone, I thought "Charge in and wack him twice" would be a viable tactic. Comments?

I have 6 BP's left, and used 33 on Nuyen. Any suggestions?


Shadowrun Character: Scope
Type: Human Physical Adept Mage Slayer

Body: 4
Agility: 4 (6)
Reaction: 3 (4)
Strength: 3
Charisma: 3
Intuition: 3
Logic: 3
Willpower: 3

Essence: 5.06

Edge: 3
Magic: 4/1 (-1 due to Cyber/Bioware)

Assensing: 2 (+2 Magic Auras)
Counterspelling: 4 (+2 Stun Spells)
Gymnastics: 4
Infiltration: 2
Perception: 2
Running: 4
Throwing Weapons: 2
Unarmed Combat: 7 (+2 Punches to the Face)

Seattle Gangs: 2
Hermetic Doo-Dads: 2
Kung Fu Styles: 4
Security Procedures: 2
Kung Fu Movies: 4
Japanese: N
English: 4

Mystic Adept (10BP)
Aptitude: Unarmed Combat (10BP)
Addiction, Mild (Kung Fu BTLís, -5BP)
Bad Luck (-20 BP)
SINner, Criminal (Manslaughter, 10BP)

Good Fixer (Connection 4/Loyalty 4)

Combat:
Unarmed Strike: 14 Dice (+2, Punch to Face), 6P Damage

Adept Powers
Astral Projection
Critical Strike: 4 levels
Killing Hands
Spell Resistance II

Spells
Armor


Gear:
Datajack (Alpha)
Muscle Toner II (Alpha)
Reflex Recorder, Unarmed Combat (Alpha)
Synaptic Booster I

Contact Lenses
-Low Light
-Flare Compensation
-Thermographic
-Vision Enhancement III
-Vision Magnification
Earbuds
-Audio Enhancement III
-Select Sound Filter III
Stealth Rope
Fake SIN, Rating 3
Fake License, Rating 4
Linguasoft: Aztlan, Rating 5
Linguasoft: Sphertherial, Rating 5
Knowsoft: Seattle Street Plans, Rating 5
Knowsoft: Security Companies, Rating 5
3x Flash Bang Grenades
3x Frag Grenades
4x Smoke Grenades
4x Thermal Grenades
Smed
QUOTE (zeb.hillard)

Adept (5BP)
Aptitude: Unarmed Combat (10BP)
Magic Resistance IV (20BPS)
Addiction, Mild (Kung Fu BTLís, -5BP)
Bad Luck (-20 BP)
SINner, Criminal (Manslaughter, 10BP)


Adepts can't take Magic Resistance.
zeb.hillard
I never realized that. Well, that's just 20 points for 2 more Edge, I suppose.
Changed it up top.
As a note, I built it off a character generator at work, hence my asking if it was all legit.
Big D
Can't take 10 levels of crit strike.

If you could, there would be a lot more kung fu masters out there, and little need for a sam with a sword.
zeb.hillard
QUOTE (Big D)
Can't take 10 levels of crit strike.

If you could, there would be a lot more kung fu masters out there, and little need for a sam with a sword.

Is there a stated maximum for levels of Critical Strike? I don't recall seeing one when I was looking through my book, though I do admit I might easily be mistaken.
lorechaser
I'm pretty sure critical strike is capped at your magic, so you couldn't have more than 4

Edit: From page 187 in the Hymnal:

"Many adept powers may be purchased at a variable rating. The maximum level an adept may have in any power is equal to the adeptís Magic attribute."

Penetrating Strike, from SM, is your friend too, as is Inertial Strike....
zeb.hillard
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Sep 29 2006, 04:37 PM)
I'm pretty sure critical strike is capped at your magic, so you couldn't have more than 4.

Penetrating Strike, from SM, is your friend too, as is Inertial Strike....

I'm waiting for my copy to arrive via USPS. Hopefully it'll be able to find it's way to my home before next Thursday when game is.

For the moment, I'll up his counterspelling and a level og Mystic Armor...hmm...
2bit
What does he expect to do with the Counterspelling skill? Only magicians and mystic adepts can use it.
lorechaser
Ah, that's a good point. He would need to be a mystic adept to have access to counterspelling.

That being said, it's only 5 points to change from physad to mystic adept, and I don't see any reason you'd have to put points in to magic, rather than all physical.

Magic isn't used for counterspelling rolls, it's just used to see if you can have it. wink.gif

And as a sidenote, it does me proud to see all 35 negative points used. So many people stop at 15 or 20....
Cheops
If he's a mage slayer how come he doesn't have astral sight and assensing? How does he verify that the person is actually a mage?
zeb.hillard
Changed to Mystic Adept with 6 BP's remaining.

And how does he know someone's a mage? Because they're the ones that go "Ooge Booga" and make people explode?

Good point on Assensing. Will likely end up with 2 ranks there.
lorechaser
Assensing 1 with a specialization in "Mage Auras" yes? Because that's 6 points for 6 dice, which is a good set.

Also, you don't have a mentor spirit. I'd recommend rolling those 6 points in to Mentor Spirit and picking either Mountain or the Adversary. Both are +2 dice to counterspelling. Mountain is a bonus to spirits, which isn't that great. The Adversary is a bonus to manipulation spells, I think. Either one would be useful if you later branch out....

But yeah, get Street Magic. The Unarmed adept has so much goodness to be found in that book....
Big D
A smart mage will wear the same gear as his team and carry a gun. Unless you're watching him astrally, it may be hard to tell (if he's good) which one is the mage.

Spell effects don't seem to be always clearly defined; you won't necessarily see the mage flinging balls of fire, just a pulse in his aura if you're astral and then people explode.

I'd recommend sacrificing a point of Magic to actual Magic instead of PP, so that you don't start as a burnout. You'll be a pretty poor mage, but sometimes a spell at Force 1 or 2 can make a difference.
Butterblume
QUOTE (lorechaser)
That being said, it's only 5 points to change from physad to mystic adept, and I don't see any reason you'd have to put points in to magic, rather than all physical.

I wondered about that. Can you be a mystic adept without detailing at least one point to magic? In this case probably the one magic that is lost because of the 'ware.


Bad luck and 5 Edge points is legit, but if you want to use Edge regularly, it might come back and bite you.

Oh, and assensing works only for people with astral perception.
lorechaser
Armor is a nice spell to overcast at force 2. 2 hits is still +2 armor.

I also like Mana Static. 2 successes is 2 background count.

Those are the spells my mystic adept has, and she's basically designed around a similar concept, except with guns. wink.gif
ShadowDragon
Get rid of the datajack and pick up some trodes. They do the exact same thing for cheaper and no essense cost (you're a mage, remember?).

Because of rounding, strength 3 does the same damage as strength 4.

I'd take that point and a point of edge and get rid of bad luck.

You can also save points if you make him an ork.
2bit
Seeing as how you need a magic rating of 1 to use counterspelling, I'm pretty sure a mystic adept would have to allocate at least one point to "mageness" or whatever you call it, to do the same.

... yeah, checking the mystic adept quality, you need at least a point dedicated to using magic skills. It's in the sorcery skill group, for goodness sake.
zeb.hillard
There we go. Dropped Edge some to pick up the 6th point of Magic (actual magic, to use the Counterspelling ability).

I'd rather not him be an Ork, just to work well with the Party and their anti-Orc sentiments.
Narmio
Given the extremely wide variety of tactics, appearances, settings and companies which mages keep, I think you're really going at this the wrong way.

Building a one-trick pony who can dash up and sock people might work once, but I think a true mage-killing adept would be far, far more rounded. Plus, you've got adept powers AND magic AND cyber. Even for a twinked out horrific abortion of a character, that's gotta be hard to handle.

Ditch the aptitude and the Mystic Adept. Pick up Astral Perception, more Infiltration and some stealth gear. You'll want to be able to fight astral entities while Perceiving, so Mystic Armour is your friend.

I'd also go for *many* more offensive options. A headshot from the shadows kills mages very quickly, as does a taser dart from right behind them. A smoke grenade will blind a mage temporarily, and can be followed up by one of your other options. Your build sorta mentions some of this stuff, but you've poured a great deal of BP into socking things in the face.

So yeah. Mr One Punch Wonder here might not be the wizkiller you're hoping for. Not in the real world, at least.
Kyoto Kid
...KK has the High Pain Tolerance 2 quality [Note: If you take this, you can't take the Adept power of the same name too]

IMO the quality is far superior to the adept power since it affects the break points for wound modifiers. The Adept power just gives you a buffer until it is exceeded. Once that happens you take apply wound modifiers as normal.
lorechaser
Dang, Narmio. You're not a fan of adepts, are you?

First you dissed the entire concept of Mystic Adepts

QUOTE
Plus, you've got adept powers AND magic AND cyber.  Even for a twinked out horrific abortion of a character, that's gotta be hard to handle.


Then you slam the entire idea of a physad that's not ranged.

QUOTE

...but you've poured a great deal of BP into socking things in the face.

So yeah.  Mr One Punch Wonder....


Adept powers and Magic is the definition of a Mystic Adept. It's not a "horrific abortion of a character." It's a basic building block. And a smart Mystic Adept will realize that it's all magic - 1 point spend on essence == 1 point spend on power points. If you can spend a single point of essence to get 4 points of PP worth of stuff, it's a good trade. It's not like he's a pure mage, and everything is focused on the magic stat. Do you consider a mage with Cyberware *and* Foci to be twinked out abortions of a character?

And socking things in the face is a tried and true method of combat. Granted, it has disadvantages. But it also can be very well done by the physad. Take a look at the list of adept powers in the Hymnal, and in street magic. How many of them are focused on socking things in the face, and how many are focused on guns?

I agree that he needs some additional options for other situations. But I think you can make a good living hitting people in the face. Just have a gun in case you really need it.
Narmio
Wait, wait, you're overstating what I said.

QUOTE

Dang, Narmio.† You're not a fan of adepts, are you?

First you dissed the entire concept of Mystic Adepts

QUOTE
Plus, you've got adept powers AND magic AND cyber.† Even for a twinked out horrific abortion of a character, that's gotta be hard to handle.


I don't have something against adepts, or against mystic adepts, or against cybered adepts. The latter two are perfectly good combinations of niche powers to build a unique and capable shadowrunners.

What I think is pushing it is this: In SR there are three paths to power. Magic, Adept Powers and Cyberware. This guy's going for all three.

When I said it's "gotta be hard to handle", I didn't mean I despised the whole concept (hyperbole on my part about horrific abortions aside, that's just reflexive reaction to some of the builds you see on this board), I mean that you've got to balance small parts of basically every section in the book. And that's got a lot of disadvantages, not least of which is keeping it all straight in your head.

He's spread really thin on the source of his powers, AND he's focussed really tightly on their application. That's where the term "horrific abortion" was applied to.


QUOTE

Then you slam the entire idea of a physad that's not ranged.

QUOTE

...but you've poured a great deal of BP into socking things in the face.

So yeah.† Mr One Punch Wonder....


<snip>

And socking things in the face is a tried and true method of combat. Granted, it has disadvantages. But it also can be very well done by the physad. Take a look at the list of adept powers in the Hymnal, and in street magic. How many of them are focused on socking things in the face, and how many are focused on guns?


I said nothing about slamming melee physads. What I said was that pouring all your resources into one very specific method of killing mages wouldn't be as useful as giving yourself a wide variety of options for taking out mages of different types in different situations, settings and company. Which means that I've got nothing at all against our katana-toting wall-running fu-flaunting friends...

QUOTE

I agree that he needs some additional options for other situations.† But I think you can make a good living hitting people in the face.† Just have a gun in case you really need it.


...and that you and I are actually pretty much on the same page.

I just meant to say that this guy isn't supposed to make a living hitting people in the face, he's supposed to make a living kiling mages. And to do that he needs to be as proficient as he can in as many possibly ways to deal with spellslingers.
lorechaser
Okay. I'll call off the trolls. wink.gif

I just gotta represent for my mystical homies, yo.

Or something like that....

The mystical adept is probably the hardest character to make and play with, I think. Like you said, you're pulling from 3 (or even 4, if you count all his gear) main sources. That being said, if done well, they can be extremely entertaining.

Narmio
Thanks for calling off the dogs. I'll call off the horrific abortions, too.

And yeah, agreed, mystic adepts can be really hard to get going, but once you're 50 karma down the road they can start to shine. But I usually find that if you utterly minmax one to begin with, you instead find yourself 50 karma down the road and trying to patch all the holes, while your street-sam buddy is thinking about cash-for-karma or an Underwater specialisation on his basketweaving.
lorechaser
Basketweaving (Tribal Fakery) is much more lucrative....
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