Ok maybe i missed something in character advancement, But when an adept buys up his magic attribute, does he automatically get to pick new powers? Or does he have buy them with karma. I dont have my book in front of me at the moment but when I read over advancement I dont remember seeing a karma cost for adding new adept powers.
Thanks for any response.
Full Version: Adepts question!
The powers are what the new magic rating does, the cost is subsumed within the cost of increasing magic. ie +1 magic=1 point more powers.
thats what i thought, just seems pretty fast advancement that way. thank you
As long as the character doesn't need initiation it is just the cost of his Magic Attribute that needs to be bought. As soon as he needs Initiation he will need Initiation in order to raise his Attribute limit and also pay for the actual attribute increase.
Tryng to raise magic above 6 is expensive
To go from 6 to 7 magic, you need to initiate (13 karma), then raise the attribute (21 karma). So the final price is 34 karma to get one more magic point. As a bonus, you do get a metamagic technique.
I find that 34 karma to get your first magic point increase is expensive.
It goes to 40 karma to get the next one.
I am not sure if we will house rule to the SR3 variant, that once you initiate, you automatically gain a magic point. Will have to see how things play out.
To go from 6 to 7 magic, you need to initiate (13 karma), then raise the attribute (21 karma). So the final price is 34 karma to get one more magic point. As a bonus, you do get a metamagic technique.
I find that 34 karma to get your first magic point increase is expensive.
It goes to 40 karma to get the next one.
I am not sure if we will house rule to the SR3 variant, that once you initiate, you automatically gain a magic point. Will have to see how things play out.
I am going to start at magic level 1 (actually 2, but that's where the essence loss through 'ware comes in).
My next magic point will cost 6 karma, and up to magic 5 it will cost 42 karma in total
.
My next magic point will cost 6 karma, and up to magic 5 it will cost 42 karma in total
.
Don't forget that Essence loss also reduces your Magic Att cap (Magic + Initiation grade). So knocking Magic down to 1 with cyberware means your new Magic Att cap is 1. To raise that you'll need to initiate before you can buy up your next Magic point.
I probably wasn't clear enough, I bought magic 2 at chargen, lost one point due to cyberware, so I am again at magic rating 1.
I know my max magic rating is lowered from 6 to 5, that's the reason why I summed up the cost until magic 5.
I know my max magic rating is lowered from 6 to 5, that's the reason why I summed up the cost until magic 5.
Shouldn't your cost to max attribute but 54 karma?
since you need to raise it to 3(2), then 4(3), 5(4) and finally 6(5)?
since you need to raise it to 3(2), then 4(3), 5(4) and finally 6(5)?
...34 Karma is about 4 - 5 decent runs (avg. 7 - 9 Karma each)
In some ways to house rule or not house rule depends on the frequency of gaming sessions and length of the campaign.
Considering our group meets every 2 - 3 weeks, (trading off GM duties every three or so sessions), it would take a long time [in RT] for an individual character to advance. In this instance I personally would lean towards the "SR3" house rule (or some type of variant). so players could see their characters progress.
In some ways to house rule or not house rule depends on the frequency of gaming sessions and length of the campaign.
Considering our group meets every 2 - 3 weeks, (trading off GM duties every three or so sessions), it would take a long time [in RT] for an individual character to advance. In this instance I personally would lean towards the "SR3" house rule (or some type of variant). so players could see their characters progress.
or just increase the karma handout.
And 7-9 Karma seems pretty high for one run, from my experience, anyways.
Of course, if you do not play often, it seems reasonable to up the Karma output.
Bye
Thanee
Of course, if you do not play often, it seems reasonable to up the Karma output.
Bye
Thanee
hmm, forgot about another option.
cash to karma conversion.
sadly they didnt port those rules over to SR4, but as a adept will most often have a higher need for karma then for cash, the gm and adept may agree on some ration of x cash for y karma.
in-game i guess it one could see it as donating money to "good" causes and similar.
cash to karma conversion.
sadly they didnt port those rules over to SR4, but as a adept will most often have a higher need for karma then for cash, the gm and adept may agree on some ration of x cash for y karma.
in-game i guess it one could see it as donating money to "good" causes and similar.
| QUOTE (Thanee) |
| And 7-9 Karma seems pretty high for one run, from my experience, anyways. Bye Thanee |
...that is why I used the term "decent run" - ie. one that is above the average in threat level and/or length.
Also got a question about Adepts. As a spell in the new magic book there is Gecko Crawl. This would be an awesome adept power. How many powerpoints would you people make this power cost for an adept? And how many meters per turn would you allow to move in this way?
I'd say 2 points, personally. I base that on the fact that Wall Run and Glider are each 1 point, and this seems to be a level above that.
Or 1 point, but have wall runner as a prerequisite.
Seems like a good amount of pp. Afterall, it is quite powerfull
| QUOTE (Poison) |
| Seems like a good amount of pp. Afterall, it is quite powerfull |
Yeah, but you can buy an actual pair of Gecko Tape Gloves for 250
! Who would seriously invest the magic points?
| QUOTE (knasser) | ||
Yeah, but you can buy an actual pair of Gecko Tape Gloves for 250 ! Who would seriously invest the magic points? |
...someone who didn't want to slip off a wet surface.
How many times have you seen a wet elevator shaft? Or a wet interior wall? Seattle's atmosphere is damp and it does rain a lot (at least in the SR world) but did they get rid of roofs as well? Also, RH mentions that there is a nano-barrier thing to protect against the acid rain, would that help or hinder gecko tape gloves?
There are a couple reasons I can think of.
Concealability. No one knows you're the human lizard.
Flexibility. I'd allow the gecko power to apply to any surface, not just the hands.
Self-sufficiency, aka the inevitable "You have no gear, what do you do?"
You have no hands. Either because you're wearing other gloves, or just bad luck....
You could make the same argument about several adept powers, especially enhanced senses. But there's a value to being self-reliant and natural, rather than tech.
There's also a value in tech, which is why I wouldn't get the power. But it's a nice and flavorful option to have.
Concealability. No one knows you're the human lizard.
Flexibility. I'd allow the gecko power to apply to any surface, not just the hands.
Self-sufficiency, aka the inevitable "You have no gear, what do you do?"
You have no hands. Either because you're wearing other gloves, or just bad luck....
You could make the same argument about several adept powers, especially enhanced senses. But there's a value to being self-reliant and natural, rather than tech.
There's also a value in tech, which is why I wouldn't get the power. But it's a nice and flavorful option to have.
| QUOTE (Kyoto Kid @ Oct 11 2006, 03:19 PM) | ||||
...someone who didn't want to slip off a wet surface. |
Bah! I'm sorry, but why should the adept be immune to slippery surfaces? This power is either working through traction or through some sort of gravity / force effect. If it's the former and he can get traction on liquids, then he'll be able to hold a glass of wine without the glass. Seriously, you don't get traction on liquids because they move. The molecules just slide away under you unlike a solid where they're fixed and you actually get some resistance you can use. Or if it's a gravity effect then he can climb anything regardless of it's strength as he's not relying on traction to support himself. Those are the two possible consequences of immunity to slippery surfaces.
I'm not saying you can't have the power, but it's not something I can see any sane player ever taking except for extreme flavour reasons. And if the extreme flavour reason is having watched Spiderman too many times, I'm not sure I want that player.
Sorry - nothing personal here, but I think the idea is unworkable.
EDIT: Lorechaser makes some valid points, but I can't see this power being worth any significant layout in magic points, still. And if you make it cheap then you're going to have adepts crawling up everything all over the place. Bleh! It's just too comic book, for me I think.
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| I'm not saying you can't have the power ... |
I would!
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
I would! |
Yeah, but I think he's the GM.
And in my games, I am the GM, and that would be my answer.
So, it's okay for a player to be able to shoot fire out of his ass, but "it's magic" isn't a good enough explanation for how he can stick to wet walls? What the hell?
| QUOTE |
| The Gecko Crawl spell allows the subject to walk along vertical or overhead surfaces.... The subject is still affected by gravity and will fall if separated from the surface. The gamemaster may require Climbing Tests in order for the subject to climb especially slick surfaces. |
There's no mention there of slickness, only that if you are separated, you fall. In this case, it's not friction, it's not stickyness. It's some mystical quality of connection. So I'd say the Adept power would mirror that, and be a higher level of climbing than the gloves. Gecko Crawl lets you simply walk, not crawl, as well.
| QUOTE (lorechaser) | ||
There's no mention there of slickness, only that if you are separated, you fall. In this case, it's not friction, it's not stickyness. It's some mystical quality of connection. So I'd say the Adept power would mirror that, and be a higher level of climbing than the gloves. Gecko Crawl lets you simply walk, not crawl, as well. |
Hmm for an adept power (2 point or 1 point with wall crawl).
I also would chose to duplicate the spell
| QUOTE |
| The Gecko Crawl spell allows the subject to walk along vertical or overhead surfaces.... The subject is still affected by gravity and will fall if separated from the surface. The gamemaster may require Climbing Tests in order for the subject to climb especially slick surfaces. |
As quoted before IT SPECIFICALLY states you CAN us it on 'slick' surfaces.
"THE GAMEMASTER MAY REQUIRE CLIMBING TESTS IN ORDER FOR THE SUBJECT TO CLIMB ESPECIALLY SLICK SURFACES"
Makes it pretty clear 'normal' slick surfaces would be no problem. (if only especially slick require checks).
So a 'wet' wall no problem.
Crawling up a ice covered waterfall, likely would..
Likewise if somebody sprays the surface you climbing on with silicon lubricate you likely will be making a test....
Gecko Crawl does NOT allow you to climb however on surfaces that would not support you.
Sure you can 'stick' to that wet piece of glass. but if that wet pieces of glass is designed to hold 30kg and you are pushing over 100kg with gear, you and that piece of glass take a nice fall.
Gecko crawl (and to me by extension a power based on it) does not 'nullify' gravity. Rather it makes a supernatural attraction between you and whatever object you are touching. You will not come off that object... HOWEVER, that object might come off what it is attached to.
An inch of water on something and you can still grip the 'rock' (or whatever) under it. However, If you try to climb the 'false' ceiling in most office building you and that fibreglass insulation tile are going to be falling down.
Peace
which begs the question of how well you hang on to it. As in, what would you roll if a troll tried to yank you off the wall. For the spell, I'd say force = strength. adept power though?
Typically it seems that magic replaces force.
So strength = Magic.
So strength = Magic.
I think I would use which ever is lower, Strength or Force.
Reason being that it could cause you serious harm if the troll tried to rip you off the wall, and only the magic kept you there. I could see torn ligaments, limbs torn off (at the extreme end), etc..
Reason being that it could cause you serious harm if the troll tried to rip you off the wall, and only the magic kept you there. I could see torn ligaments, limbs torn off (at the extreme end), etc..
| QUOTE (knasser) | ||
Yeah, but you can buy an actual pair of Gecko Tape Gloves for 250 ! Who would seriously invest the magic points? |
Is there? Haven't found it in the book, can you give me a page ref?
But still would like to have it as an innate power. Nobody expects someone walking/crawling over the ceiling
| QUOTE (Poison) | ||||
Is there? Haven't found it in the book, can you give me a page ref? But still would like to have it as an innate power. Nobody expects someone walking/crawling over the ceiling |
SR4, Under Survival Gear, page 327.
"Gecko Tape Gloves: these gloves are made of a special dry adhesive that incorporates millions of fine microscopic hairs that bonds to other surfaces. Individually these bonding forcesa re insignificant, but when combined, they are strong enough to stick a troll upside-down to the ceiling. Gecko tape gloves come as a set that includes glvoes, knee-pads, and slip-on soles. A character using them is treated as if it were perfoming assisted climbing (see p. 115). These gloves are useless when wet."
Gecko Tape Gloves and the Gecko Crawl are not the same effect in my mind. It's easy to get confused though. I mean, both mention geckos...
| QUOTE (DarkNataku) | ||||||
SR4, Under Survival Gear, page 327. "Gecko Tape Gloves: these gloves are made of a special dry adhesive that incorporates millions of fine microscopic hairs that bonds to other surfaces. Individually these bonding forcesa re insignificant, but when combined, they are strong enough to stick a troll upside-down to the ceiling. Gecko tape gloves come as a set that includes glvoes, knee-pads, and slip-on soles. A character using them is treated as if it were perfoming assisted climbing (see p. 115). These gloves are useless when wet." Gecko Tape Gloves and the Gecko Crawl are not the same effect in my mind. It's easy to get confused though. I mean, both mention geckos... |
Thnx, got it!
Still have to consult my dm what he thinks about it.
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