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emo samurai

Oct 14 2006, 04:21 AM

I have several ideas. First, the game would play like Neverwinter Nights, except you'd have a full party, and you'd be able to give them orders.

As for features, you'd be able to infiltrate the necessary power plant, knock out its power, and knock out the power in the corp facility you want to infiltrate. This is assuming the corp facility doesn't have its own generators. Also, for an in-game Karma for Cash mechanic, you'd be able to go to a street cathedral, put your hands on a magic stone, and get given 1000

per karma. If a mage goes in there, he'll find that the stone is a spirit formula; if he manages to steal it, he'll be able to attempt to bind the most powerful free spirit in the game. This will be something of an easter egg, something like an Ultimate Weapon.

Konsaki

Oct 14 2006, 04:27 AM

No offense, but a proper SR4 game would be so sandboxish that it wouldnt be feasable to produce. There are just so many options out there that programers couldnt set all the parameters and still turn a profit on the game without it costing an assload.

emo samurai

Oct 14 2006, 04:28 AM

Dammit, you're right.

WhiskeyMac

Oct 14 2006, 04:35 AM

I would say make it a mix between Fallout: Tactics and NWN and then add in some Elder Scrolls style sandbox-ness and then toss in an overly customizable character creation system. Also, throw in an awesome level/mission editor and you'd have a great game. Also having a developer backed user-mod base would make it more fun.

Dranem

Oct 14 2006, 04:59 AM

Man, there are so many threads already on this topic, so I'll probably end up sounding like I'm repeating what I've said in another post...

There are a couple of projects out to make a Shadowrun game... one is more of an MMO feature, the other a full-blown game. Both are seeking big companies to back them up once they get a working demo. Shadowrun Online seems to be ahead of the game, and are looking at getting into Microsofts good graces...

Frankly I'd like to see something like Anarchy Online, one of the few games out there that could easily adapted into Shadowrun as it already has a lot of elements present: A simplified Matrix (the grid), vehicles, drones, nanotech, weapons, build/repair rules, an open ended improvement system... I know some people really shoot that game down, but for a small time production house, the game is still out there and receiving regular updates.

That whole cash for Karma thing is a 3rd Ed fix for missions that would pay a lot, but not give a lot of Karma, it offered a balance for those awakened characters who needed the karma to compete with the supped up cyber-samurai's and their gummet full of gear... it does not exist in 4th Ed. (though to my knowledge those developping games are still aiming for 3rd due to lack of materials to build a comprehensive 4th ed game.) If the game is designed well, you shouldn't need that 'coping tactic', not to mention the exploits that would generate from having a 'well' that could be harnessed... hello - twink city here we come!

Critias

Oct 14 2006, 05:00 AM

I wouldn't mind if it was based on Vampire: Bloodlines, to be honest. It was a surprisingly good RPG game (for being based off a shooter engine), with good melee combat, supernatural abilites, and a pretty impressive amount of role-playing/social interaction made viable, as well.

Kalvan

Oct 14 2006, 05:10 AM

If we are going the action route, something that would combine the best aspects of TRON 2.0 (For Matrix parts for Linkers/Technomancers), The Hitman series (for the mission structure and the need for secrecy), The PS2 Grand Theft Auto series (For the sheer scope and open-endedness of the thing) plus special subsystems to handle things like magic and remote rigging.

If we are going the more cerebral route... well, others have said it better than I.

emo samurai

Oct 14 2006, 05:15 AM

The Cash for Karma thing is there almost as an easter egg, but I think we should keep it just so there's an Ultimate Weapon sort of things.

And I'd like the FP view thing, as long as you could jump into anybody in your team's body.

ShadowDragon

Oct 14 2006, 05:48 AM

I'd like to see a cross between NWN and Deus Ex. I love the ability for players to make new modules in NWN and the ability to take on party members. But I think with the focus on guns, combat should be FPS.

Lilt

Oct 14 2006, 07:06 AM

QUOTE (ShadowDragon)

Not that I think a discussion here would have much of an effect on any SR game, if there was ever to be another one, but here goes:
The problem with an FPS-style game is that it instantly puts the onus on the player to aim. This is not an overtly bad thing, it can be fun to aim, but it means that an 'expert marksman' character is only really good in the hands of a good FPS player.

FPS-style games have managed to incorporate RPG systems, hwoever. Consider Deus Ex, System Shock 2, Morrowind, Oblivion, and Wolfenstein: Enemy Territory. Enemy Territory may notquite have been an RPG but it did incorperate an XP system and character advancement.

The one thing I don't like about the above list of games, although they're all top-notch, is that they tend to fall into one trap: An expert shooting someone in the foot can do more damage than a novice shooting someone in the head (well, the one exception is in enemy territory where head shots, even with a pistol, really did kill unless the opponent wore a helmet).

Another common way to deal with the problem is 'aim waiver', whereby you can be aiming dead-on for the head but the computer varies your aim by some fractions of degrees based on your skill. That, however, can prove advantageous as the novice aiming for the torso can hit in the head, whilst the expert aiming for the torso will hit the torso. Should the novice really have an advantage over the expert?

Also, are either of these cases really a problem? Would anybody really stop playing a game if they got pissed-off with ther character becoming inexplicably better? i don't know, but to me an 'idealized' game would have things either left up to the system completely (which rolls to hit in its own way, ala NWN or WoW) or which user and character skills are combined in some way other than random chance (think variable-magnitude auto-aim, perhaps even auto-miss?).

De Badd Ass

Oct 14 2006, 09:00 AM

Silly me. I read the question and thought you were asking about a videogame in 2070. My immediate thought was Vic Fontaine from Deep Space Nine.

Keeping that thought, after seeing the other comments, I'm thinking some kind of cyberpunk outlaw SIMS. The world doesn't need another FPS. The alternative is Evercrack Modern.

What would really make the MMORPG work is if all the shadowrun haters out there would sign up to play LoneStar, corpers, and Johnsons.

eidolon

Oct 14 2006, 12:27 PM

Any good SR game would be modeled after Arcanum. ...he said again.

BlueRondo

Oct 14 2006, 01:29 PM

I think my ideal Shadowrun videogame would be a graphic adventure somewhat like Full Throttle or Grim Fandango. It would have to at least include:

(1) A great presentation of the SR setting
(2) A great story and cast of characters
(3) An ability for the player to have some influence over the story
(4) Lots of meetings with shady characters in shady places to make shady deals and negotiations.

Tactical combat, RPG-like character advancement and customization, and accuracy to the PnP rules aren't extremely important to me for a SR CRPG. Of course, I wouldn't mind them, but a visual/aural recreation of the SR setting is what I care about most.

In contrast, tactical-combat, character growth and customization, party control, and rules accuracy are all important to me for D&D games, but I really don't care much about their stories or settings.

Steak and Spirits

Oct 14 2006, 02:06 PM

The ideal Shadowrun Video game has already been produced, and is available in it's ROM format, for a Sega Genesis Emulator.

If another Shadowrun video game were going to be released, if it followed the simple guidelines from that early ninety's masterpiece, it would be a surefire success.

ShadowDragon

Oct 14 2006, 05:39 PM

QUOTE (Lilt)

The one thing I don't like about the above list of games, although they're all top-notch, is that they tend to fall into one trap: An expert shooting someone in the foot can do more damage than a novice shooting someone in the head (well, the one exception is in enemy territory where head shots, even with a pistol, really did kill unless the opponent wore a helmet).

Another common way to deal with the problem is 'aim waiver', whereby you can be aiming dead-on for the head but the computer varies your aim by some fractions of degrees based on your skill. That, however, can prove advantageous as the novice aiming for the torso can hit in the head, whilst the expert aiming for the torso will hit the torso. Should the novice really have an advantage over the expert?

Also, are either of these cases really a problem? Would anybody really stop playing a game if they got pissed-off with ther character becoming inexplicably better? i don't know, but to me an 'idealized' game would have things either left up to the system completely (which rolls to hit in its own way, ala NWN or WoW) or which user and character skills are combined in some way other than random chance (think variable-magnitude auto-aim, perhaps even auto-miss?).

I think I'd prefer it to be actual FPS with twitch elements, but the RPG skill element should override PC aim. So a character with a 1 in pistols could be played by an expert FPS player who rarely ever misses, but the system overrides his good aim with automisses a set percentage of the time (and not a silly cone radius with your torso to headshot example). The higher the character's skill rating, the more accurate the crosshairs are. Perhaps if the PC's skill is high enough, there is an option for autoaim for those of us with no coordination

hobgoblin

Oct 14 2006, 07:27 PM

i kinda liked how they did it in a quake mod.
put the crosshair on a target, and when you fire, a skillroll is made.
potentialy the system can interpet a aim for a hand or head as a called shot and apply modifiers to fit.

warrior_allanon

Oct 15 2006, 04:32 AM

D&Donline crossed with halflife and counterstrike

Ranneko

Oct 15 2006, 04:43 AM

Either an RPG/MMORPG or an episodic squad based FPS with a few RPG elements.

lorechaser

Oct 15 2006, 05:35 AM

The old Star Wars Galaxies for the flexible skill system. Matrix Online (the way it should be) for the hand to hand combat. Anarchy Online for the ranged combat and grid. City of Heroes for the mission structure.

I would die happy.

ShadowDragon

Oct 15 2006, 07:43 AM

QUOTE (lorechaser)

I second CoH mission structure if it becomes a MMO. The first day I played CoH I instantly thought "ya know, Shadowrun Online could work like this..."

But I'm not so sure Shadowrun would work as a MMO because the streets of Seattle should not be populated with shadowrunners yelling "mage LFP 4 barrens grind!" It would be very very difficult to build a MMO in the style they're made in today without completely ruining the Shadowrun atmosphere. I'm not saying it can't be pulled off, but odds are whoever makes it will screw it up as badly as DDO.

Eyeless Blond

Oct 15 2006, 08:20 AM

QUOTE (ShadowDragon)

I'm not saying it can't be pulled off, but odds are whoever makes it will screw it up as badly as DDO.

Well, yeah.

BlackHat

Oct 15 2006, 04:49 PM

Lol, although I had heard somethings about hte upcoming Shadowrun 360 game, I hadn't sen that site before.

Just went and looked at it. Hilariously enough, it takes place in 2031. LOLIOOMG primative. We get to play essentially as cavemen of the future?

So much for my great hope for how they might incorporate the wireless Matrix into the game... they'll be lucky not to be using DSL. Hahaha, noobs.

I wonder if they'll even have cyberware?

BlackHat

Oct 15 2006, 04:54 PM

Looked a little deeper. Cyberware, yes. No mention of bioware... but apparantly in 2031 people could use magic to ressurect other people, and summon astral trees that heal damage over time. Shit, mankind was awesome in 2031... to bad by 2070 (or 2050, or anywhere in between where the RPG is being played) those spell have been lost.

BlackHat

Oct 15 2006, 05:03 PM

Great quote from their messageboards:

QUOTE

"...imagine I'm Joe Coelocanth, big fan of Shadowrun, and I see this game. "Wow! A new Shadowrun game! Let me read the back...oh, it's a first person shooter? Not really what I would have wanted from a SR videogame, but as long as it's Shadowrun"...then they get it home, and find that the box text was not lying - it's a FPS, but the slapping of the Shadowrun name on it was deceptive "What the...I can teleport around? There's no decking? Not even to open doors or control AI guns? Dwarves absorb magic? Elves regenerate?"...that's what I mean...they go into it being told it's a FPS, but because FASA is calling this Shadowrun, there's no sign that they are going to let the buyer know that this is merely influenced in a small way by SR."

BlackHat

Oct 15 2006, 05:04 PM

And, from that, the one thing I would like an ideal SR4 videogame to be like.... "SR4"

ShadowDragon

Oct 15 2006, 05:31 PM

QUOTE (Eyeless Blond)

QUOTE (ShadowDragon @ Oct 14 2006, 11:43 PM)

I'm not saying it can't be pulled off, but odds are whoever makes it will screw it up as badly as DDO.

Well, yeah.

lol and that's not even a MMO. If they can't get a console game even close to right, what chance is there of a MMO being anywhere near true to the SR universe?

Abbandon

Oct 16 2006, 05:38 AM

Im thinking a new game should either be a Strategy RPG that has lots of ways to interact with the environment or an RPG like Knights of the Old Republic where you can do different attacks or buffs while pausing the action.

Although the story would be extremely watered down i think the best and most fun version would be based of X-com 1. An isoteric(grid) based tactical game, it had guns, psionics, and tanks which covers samurais, mages, and riggers. You got to move around environments and go through buildings, its perfect. It even had other people walking around the stages.

The sega version did the best job on mission generating. You had a bunch of johnsons just generate random missions for random amounts of cash. If they could improve that by randomly including bad guys or cops to make things go bad it would be great.

De Badd Ass

Oct 16 2006, 07:05 AM

QUOTE (Abbandon)

If they could improve that by randomly including bad guys or cops to make things go bad it would be great.

See, that's what I was getting at in my previous post.

Shadowrunners ARE the BADD guys. What a Shadowrun MMORPG needs is lots of people playing the GOOD guys; hunting down Sammies like the serial killers they are. Then the game would be gritty. Playing a runner would be like playing Roy Batty in Blade Runner.

Abbandon

Oct 16 2006, 08:12 AM

Technically runners are criminals but that doesnt make them bad or evil. If they run around killing anyone and everyone who gets in their way then yea they are, those kinda runners are also called ametuers. Professionals can get the job done without killing people because they know that it will draw less heat if there are no corpses left behind.

Runners are nuetral entities who are neither upstanding informed citizens or low life killer thugs, they are stuck in between trying to use their knowledge on certain things to support themselves and live another day.

Do you runners go into a stuffer shack and murder everyone inside and take what they want?? Probably not, they most likely pay for things with money and act in a civilized manner when not commiting crimes.

Justin Cray

Oct 16 2006, 12:44 PM

I'd buy Blizzard for a couple billion dollars and let them go to town. Oh and I would personally see to it that not one of emo samurai's ideas will make it into the game.

Imagine 2 games in one, the Mission (preferably a pausable tactical fps), and the World (preferably a persistant mmo on a single server). I'd pay thousands of GMs to create on the fly content (o.e. unique Missions). All those GMs would be sane rational adults that love to play SR.

Every player would have to use his real name (at least use the name on the credit card), and would be able to aquire SINs and fake identities (with ratings) in game (and those would then be used instead of the real name if the ID/SIN made the check).

If you have ~10 billion dollars to spare I can elaborate further.

emo samurai

Oct 16 2006, 03:11 PM

QUOTE (Justin Cray)

Here's an idea: Justin Cray dies!

But seriously, what's wrong with my ideas?

blakkie

Oct 16 2006, 03:57 PM

QUOTE (emo samurai @ Oct 16 2006, 09:11 AM)

But seriously, what's wrong with my ideas?

Come on, don't play dumb.

You are so over-the-top as to push, and occationaly rupture, the envelope of Shadowrun. It is more like you are playing Rifts with a Shadowrun theme. Not that that it isn't AWESOME. But it is different.

P.S. I will say though that often buried deep [deep, deep, deep

] within your ideas are kernels of cool concepts for the Shadowrun played by us mere mortals.

warrior_allanon

Oct 16 2006, 04:01 PM

Actually I enjoy DDO, i can see a DDO mod being a better setup for an online shadowrun game than that abortion they have for the 360.

think about it for a second

DDO=SRO(SR4ed)
Warrior/fighter=street Sam
mage/wizard=mage/technomancer
monk/ranger=adept
rogue=spec ops/face
any=hacker

lorechaser

Oct 16 2006, 04:40 PM

But DDO is a level and class based system. And SR is inherently not.

Hence the use of Star Wars Galaxies, which had a total of 250 skill points. There were something like 15 different skill trees (some basic, some advanced, which required certain basic trees to open). You spent your skills purchasing rank 1-4 of a tree, and each rank cost less and less points. You could build any template you wanted w/i those 250 points.

Each "group" had 4 trees.

So there was a basic Marksman group. It cost 15 skill points to purchase basic marksman.

You could then buy up to 4 ranks in "Stances" "Aim" "Something" and "Something"

Each rank cost like 8/7/6/5 or some such. So rank 4 in a tree was less than rank 1 in a new tree. And once you were at high levels of marksman, you could then pick up pistols, and get the 4 trees of pistols. Or you could be 4/0/3/0 in marksman, 4/4/0/0 in medic, 4/0/0/4 in doctor and 4/3/3/3 in pistols, and have skills from each of those (note, it's been a while, and my numbers are entirely arbitrary).

It was an amazingly cool system which was deemed "too complicated" by the producers, and nixed.

Abbandon

Oct 16 2006, 05:30 PM

A retarded monkey > Turbine (the guys who make ddo). I will throw my vote behind Blizzard or the dudes who make CoH/V

Egon

Oct 17 2006, 12:12 AM

Knights of the Old Republic meets World of Warcraft

Action system like KOTOR were you click around and cue up actions. The faster you are the quicker your cue moves. Runs/Quest system like WoW, but with more instances. It would be odd to keep running in to people other then on the streets.

NO CLASSES class systems suck. Skills and exp all the way.

blakkie

Oct 17 2006, 02:56 AM

QUOTE (warrior_allanon)

Actually I enjoy DDO, i can see a DDO mod being a better setup for an online shadowrun game than that abortion they have for the 360.

It certainly wouldn't be anything I would consider buying.

Now if I had a PC beefy enough to run current games or I had a 360 I would consider at least looking at that FASA game when it came out. It looks like it could be fun.

Justin Cray

Oct 17 2006, 10:37 AM

QUOTE (emo samurai)

Here's an idea: Justin Cray dies!

But seriously, what's wrong with my ideas?

Cmon, a little ribbing never hurt anyone (in actuality my comment came from the mention of über-weapons as eastereggs, a concept I hate with a passion, magnified by 1000 because you mentioned it before any serious game design whatsoever).

TBRMInsanity

Oct 17 2006, 01:39 PM

One word MMRPG.

SR can only truly be fully realized if it is in an MMRPG. And to capture the feel of the SR universe I would suggest it have a Grand Theft Auto style look to it (Realistic, gritty, and worn around the edges).

emo samurai

Oct 17 2006, 03:34 PM

QUOTE (Justin Cray)

QUOTE (emo samurai @ Oct 16 2006, 03:11 PM)

Here's an idea: Justin Cray dies!

But seriously, what's wrong with my ideas?

Dude, the ultimate weapon is the diamond in the rough. Diamond in the rough, man.

WhiskeyMac

Oct 17 2006, 04:33 PM

The problem with your so called "diamond in the rough" is that the first person to find it would probably be a Farmer and then they would just let everyone else know and then you'd have everyone walking around with your uber-weapon. It would get really boring, really fast. I would suggest the MMORPG route only if they could make it less likely that farming would screw over the system. They would have to make it where not every sammie has MBW4 with essence friendly option and dual-wielding laser pistols with underbarrel micro-grenade launchers and a cyberzombie guardian.

Make it more like a MUD or MUX but 3-D. It just seems like it would get out of hand without some heavy GM/Admin watchdoggery. Bah, I'm at work and can't think of anything else right now. Just boo to "diamonds in the rough"; think about how WoW had those and now look at it.

Perssek

Oct 17 2006, 04:34 PM

Don´t know about diamonds, but me and my players talked a lot about it and agreed - the perfect SR4 game would be a mix betwenn GTA San Andreas and Oblivion. Oh, and with an extra layer of texture for the Astral and a compact in-game for the Matrix.

With 1st and 3rd-person capacity, mission-oriented, but with the possibility of just wandering through town (Seattle, for starts)...

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