(+5 BP) -- The proposal is, unless the Summoner uses 1 unit of Binding materials to Summon (500
), they would receive a -2 Pool penalty.Whatcha' all think?
Thanks,
~GTT
Full Version: Proposed Negative Quality
One of my players is interested in creating a negative quality that would impose a penalty against Summoning not all Magic Tests.
(+5 BP) -- The proposal is, unless the Summoner uses 1 unit of Binding materials to Summon (500), they would receive a -2 Pool penalty.
Whatcha' all think?
Thanks,
~GTT
(+5 BP) -- The proposal is, unless the Summoner uses 1 unit of Binding materials to Summon (500
), they would receive a -2 Pool penalty.Whatcha' all think?
Thanks,
~GTT
It sounds alright to me, I can see it being a cheep shot for more BP, but alot of negative qualities are like that.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| It sounds alright to me, I can see it being a cheep shot for more BP, but alot of negative qualities are like that. |
So true, just curious about the balance around a +5BP quality. I don't mind the creative thinking as long as it's not complete muchkinism.
well, for obvious reasons it shouldn't be combined with certain other qualities (such as incompetent:summoning), but i don't see it being a problem, personally. i might make it a little bit stronger of a penalty without the materials though... maybe apply the -2 to drain tests from summoning also?
Well with 5 BP they could add one skill level to something, geting an extra die. Leaving say 1 BP left over for a bit of extra cash or something.
How far does the -2 penalty go? Does it apply to the drain test?
How far does the -2 penalty go? Does it apply to the drain test?
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| Well with 5 BP they could add one skill level to something, geting an extra die. Leaving say 1 BP left over for a bit of extra cash or something. How far does the -2 penalty go? Does it apply to the drain test? |
I think intially we only thought about the Summoning, but it would make sense to apply the -2 to all Summoning Tests for the summoning session.
I've a couple as well that I'd like looked at, but, before I stick them in here, I'd ask permission from the original poster.
As for teh Summoning Weakness, it seems to be neither as restrictive as incomopetent: Binding or the Adept version from Street Magic. Seems like it isn't harsh enough.
I'd probably alter it to something like:
Non-Stick Casting (5 BP)
The caster's magic has a shorter lifespan than normal. He receives a -2 Dice Pool modifier for any Binding tests or Quickened spells.
As for teh Summoning Weakness, it seems to be neither as restrictive as incomopetent: Binding or the Adept version from Street Magic. Seems like it isn't harsh enough.
I'd probably alter it to something like:
Non-Stick Casting (5 BP)
The caster's magic has a shorter lifespan than normal. He receives a -2 Dice Pool modifier for any Binding tests or Quickened spells.
| QUOTE (Wakshaani) |
| I've a couple as well that I'd like looked at, but, before I stick them in here, I'd ask permission from the original poster. As for teh Summoning Weakness, it seems to be neither as restrictive as incomopetent: Binding or the Adept version from Street Magic. Seems like it isn't harsh enough. I'd probably alter it to something like: Non-Stick Casting (5 BP) The caster's magic has a shorter lifespan than normal. He receives a -2 Dice Pool modifier for any Binding tests or Quickened spells. |
Wow, Wakshaani I appreciate your style!
Feel free to add to the thread as long as it's on topic (for the most part).
Thanks,
~GTT
As another altenrative I woudl see ok:
Ineffecient Conjurer: (5bp)
The character deals poorly with spirits. Not necessailry they 'dislike' him, just he does poorly with all aspects of dealing with them.
When the character makes any roll involving the conjuring group, he is at minus two dice. (less 'restrive' then incompentent but affecting a 'wider' range (three skillsthe wholel group) -2 dice for three skills for 5bp
I would not allow the option to use the materials to offset.
This I would see as balacned IMO: Thre skills -2, versus one skill permantantly at 0
Ineffecient Conjurer: (5bp)
The character deals poorly with spirits. Not necessailry they 'dislike' him, just he does poorly with all aspects of dealing with them.
When the character makes any roll involving the conjuring group, he is at minus two dice. (less 'restrive' then incompentent but affecting a 'wider' range (three skillsthe wholel group) -2 dice for three skills for 5bp
I would not allow the option to use the materials to offset.
This I would see as balacned IMO: Thre skills -2, versus one skill permantantly at 0
Righteo then!
Most of these are variants from the older books ... things that I miss.
Distinctive (BP: Variable)
The character has something quite memorable about them, be it a tatoo, a signature habit or phrase, a style of dress that's outside the norm, or similar. Distinctive comes in two forms, worth 5 or 10 BP. If the feature is concealable, such as Yakuza tatoos on the upper arm and back (Easily hidden by a shirt) or a catchphrase/habit (Compulsion to always be clicking an ink pen, wearing fancy red footwear with every ensamble, always munching on a bag of NERPS), or a blend of several minor factors (The short-haired Elf girl with the one street, usually wearing a retro shirt from the '40s.) then it's worth 5 points. A more distinctive, or impossible to hide feature, is worth 10 points. (For example, being an Elf with black fur, full-face tatoos found in some 'primative' traditions, or alwys wearing a full Napolean uniform whenever you're in public, even on Shadowruns). The 5 point version adds a +2 dice bonus on any attempt to find the character through social networks, which can be good (for work) or bad (for law enforcement) while the 10 point adds +4 dice.
This trait adds +1 to the character's Notoriety. The 10 point version adds *2* to the character's Notoriety.
Most of these are variants from the older books ... things that I miss.
Distinctive (BP: Variable)
The character has something quite memorable about them, be it a tatoo, a signature habit or phrase, a style of dress that's outside the norm, or similar. Distinctive comes in two forms, worth 5 or 10 BP. If the feature is concealable, such as Yakuza tatoos on the upper arm and back (Easily hidden by a shirt) or a catchphrase/habit (Compulsion to always be clicking an ink pen, wearing fancy red footwear with every ensamble, always munching on a bag of NERPS), or a blend of several minor factors (The short-haired Elf girl with the one street, usually wearing a retro shirt from the '40s.) then it's worth 5 points. A more distinctive, or impossible to hide feature, is worth 10 points. (For example, being an Elf with black fur, full-face tatoos found in some 'primative' traditions, or alwys wearing a full Napolean uniform whenever you're in public, even on Shadowruns). The 5 point version adds a +2 dice bonus on any attempt to find the character through social networks, which can be good (for work) or bad (for law enforcement) while the 10 point adds +4 dice.
This trait adds +1 to the character's Notoriety. The 10 point version adds *2* to the character's Notoriety.
(Faction) Bane (10 BP)
The character has stepped on the wrong toes, and now they're interested in stepping back. The faction is likely to harass the character when he's in their presence and they're reluctant to to perform favors for the character or his friends. If the faction is attacking a party that contains the character, they will generally single the character out first in an attempt to destroy him. In a larger city, organizations such as the Mafia, Yakuza, or Lone Star may be taken, or a particular megacorp. In an area with only one organization (Such as the Yakuza-thick, but Mafia-free city of Osaka) then a 'family' or subunit may be taken as the faction, subject to GM approval.
(Faction) Bane adds +1 to to the character's notoriety.
The character has stepped on the wrong toes, and now they're interested in stepping back. The faction is likely to harass the character when he's in their presence and they're reluctant to to perform favors for the character or his friends. If the faction is attacking a party that contains the character, they will generally single the character out first in an attempt to destroy him. In a larger city, organizations such as the Mafia, Yakuza, or Lone Star may be taken, or a particular megacorp. In an area with only one organization (Such as the Yakuza-thick, but Mafia-free city of Osaka) then a 'family' or subunit may be taken as the faction, subject to GM approval.
(Faction) Bane adds +1 to to the character's notoriety.
Klutz 5 per level (up to 4)
The character isn't exactly physically unable, but he does tend towards clumsiness. He just seems accident prone. The character reduces the number of ones he needs to glitch when using physical skills by one per level of Klutz.
I'm also looking for a good name for a social skill version of the above.
Twitchy 5
The characters nerves are tuned up a little to well. The GM should enforce surprise tests for any situation where they would be appropriate (ie anyone moving out of a hidden position towards the character). If the character can act in the first pass, he must make somesort of attack action on the person doing the surprise.
Need some work on the wording, but I hope people see what I'm getting at.I know several army types you just don't approach from behind with out warning.
The character isn't exactly physically unable, but he does tend towards clumsiness. He just seems accident prone. The character reduces the number of ones he needs to glitch when using physical skills by one per level of Klutz.
I'm also looking for a good name for a social skill version of the above.
Twitchy 5
The characters nerves are tuned up a little to well. The GM should enforce surprise tests for any situation where they would be appropriate (ie anyone moving out of a hidden position towards the character). If the character can act in the first pass, he must make somesort of attack action on the person doing the surprise.
Need some work on the wording, but I hope people see what I'm getting at.I know several army types you just don't approach from behind with out warning.
I don't think creating a glut of qualities which subtract dice from skill tests is really a very bright idea.
If you want to be less good at conjuring... Buy less Conjuring.
If you want to be less good at conjuring... Buy less Conjuring.
I think it's one thing to just make a list of generic "penalty" qualities. That'd be kind of lame. But if, in discussing a character concept, a characteristic comes up that would be best represented by something like this, I say go for it.
Agree with eryk the red here.
A million 'qualities' is not needed.
However, as a game master (more so than when I am a player), I almost certianly will work to make soemthing specific for you, if you give me the 'fluff' verision of it..
A million 'qualities' is not needed.
However, as a game master (more so than when I am a player), I almost certianly will work to make soemthing specific for you, if you give me the 'fluff' verision of it..
| QUOTE (Narmio) |
| I don't think creating a glut of qualities which subtract dice from skill tests is really a very bright idea. If you want to be less good at conjuring... Buy less Conjuring. |
I agree. IMO, the incompitant and aspected negative qualities just let the player save points twice on not-buying some given skill. If you character intend to still take summoning skills, and still intend to try to use them - why not jsut buy two fewer levels and save something like 20 points (if its the group) or 8 points (for any given skill) ?
The only reason to take it as a negative quality is if you don't intend to put any points into those skills in the first place (allowing you to go into negative ranks, so to speak) in which case, the player is simply planning on never attempting said action.
If they didn't ever learn how to summon spirits, and never actually try, then being incompetant in that area isn't a flaw or drawback for that character... its an anecdote based on their skill choices and playing style.
The same goes for the aspected magician negative qualities in street magic. For the most part, you can get the same effect by jsut nto putting any skill points into those skills. I don't see the need to reward the player twice for giving his character the same handicap.
| QUOTE (BlackHat) |
| For the most part, you can get the same effect by jsut nto putting any skill points into those skills. I don't see the need to reward the player twice for giving his character the same handicap. |
In the case of Incompetence, it's a little more than just 'not putting points in a Skill'. The character can never put points into that Skill (unless he later buys off the Quality ... but if that were the case, why buy it in the first place?). Nor can he ever default to that particular Skill. I don't know about you, but my characters tend to never be complete at chargen, and grow from there, branching out and learning new things. The Incompetence Quality puts a limit on where and how the character can advance, for quite a minor BP gain.
Well, to be fair, a negaitive quality reducing a skill that you actually use is not entirely the same as taking a lower skill: it also limits how high that skill can climb further down the road. The character might consider conjuring something really important, so he trains a lot to improve his conjuring skills, but for some reason, he's just not good at it.
[Edit: I should really use that quote button more often.
]
[Edit: I should really use that quote button more often.
]
| QUOTE (Triggerz) |
| Well, to be fair, a negaitive quality reducing a skill that you actually use is not entirely the same as taking a lower skill: it also limits how high that skill can climb further down the road. The character might consider conjuring something really important, so he trains a lot to improve his conjuring skills, but for some reason, he's just not good at it. [Edit: I should really use that quote button more often. ] |
Triggerz beat me to it.
Putting 2 less points in to conjuring lets you max it later. Having a flat -2 penalty to conjuring means no matter how hard you try, you'll never be as good as someone else.
And I don't know about your games, but Incomptence (Conjuring) may be a character choice, but it also severly hurts the mage. No matter who you are, there will come a time when you really really need to summon a spirit, or be given a spirit. Inc (Conjuring) means that will *never* happen.
Our last game, our mage, who has inc (conjuring), was severly hurt by it. "Hey, Yurgen, we need another spirit asap to counter!" "Yurgen does not do spirits." "Hey, Yurgen, we need a watcher to see if they're following us!" "Yurgen does not do spirits."
It was sad.
Now sometimes you can carefully choose incompetencies that will never affect you.
That's when the GM says "Sorry, no."
[COLOR=gold]
I think the BP qualities are a great idea. In stead of getting Generic characters they flesh out flaws and extra hurdles the player had to overcome. We all have differant skills, attributes, and personalities. Edges and Flaw are something to fill in the gaps of the unexplainable or how luck has affected our lives.
For instance if you got a below adverage job because you dont know anyone, and the job requires so much of your time it doesnt allow you to et out an network thats a serrious flaw that requires some serrious action to overcome.
What if you have a mental illness you have to battle (IE: Sczhoprenia) You can be normal one minute and loose it the next due to stress. Thats at least worth 20 BP think of you having to cure yourself and admit yourself into a counseling group when you have convinced yourself there is nothing wrong with you?
Thats the way I look at it. Positive or negitive they are the little extra details that explain how come your character got extra skills or how his life is balanced out positively and negitively.
thats my worth. Sorry for the rant but as a player GM thats how i think it was ment to be. I wish the upcomming books would print more Edges and flaws and talk about surge a bit more. It would be sweet to see what negitive and positive affects surge could have on a person.
I think the BP qualities are a great idea. In stead of getting Generic characters they flesh out flaws and extra hurdles the player had to overcome. We all have differant skills, attributes, and personalities. Edges and Flaw are something to fill in the gaps of the unexplainable or how luck has affected our lives.
For instance if you got a below adverage job because you dont know anyone, and the job requires so much of your time it doesnt allow you to et out an network thats a serrious flaw that requires some serrious action to overcome.
What if you have a mental illness you have to battle (IE: Sczhoprenia) You can be normal one minute and loose it the next due to stress. Thats at least worth 20 BP think of you having to cure yourself and admit yourself into a counseling group when you have convinced yourself there is nothing wrong with you?
Thats the way I look at it. Positive or negitive they are the little extra details that explain how come your character got extra skills or how his life is balanced out positively and negitively.
thats my
worth. Sorry for the rant but as a player GM thats how i think it was ment to be. I wish the upcomming books would print more Edges and flaws and talk about surge a bit more. It would be sweet to see what negitive and positive affects surge could have on a person.
Rather than having them have -2 dice, you could also say that any spirit counts as having +2 force for resisting conjuring/binding tests, that would easily be worth the 5 point penalty, since you have to worry about taking more drain for an equal level spirit.
| QUOTE (laughingowl) |
| Agree with eryk the red here. A million 'qualities' is not needed. However, as a game master (more so than when I am a player), I almost certianly will work to make soemthing specific for you, if you give me the 'fluff' verision of it.. |
Which is exactly how the player approached the whole idea.
He needs to 'honor' his ancestor spirits before calling on their aid. Additionally, it would require a Combat Turn to prepare and use the Binding materials (incense in his case) which isn't an issue when you have time, but in a pinch it's an extra wrinkle.
Thanks all for the feedback so far.
Why don't you just apply a Geas Quality to his Binding Skill?
Ooooh.
Fortune wins!
Fortune wins!
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Why don't you just apply a Geas Quality to his Binding Skill? |
Maybe i've misread the Geas for that. I thought it applied all magical skills not just one in particular. I'll have to re-read that Geas.
So make it only a 5 Point Negative Quality (instead of the normal 10) that applies only to Binding. I don't see anything wrong with that, and the concept fits quite nicely in with the flavor text of the Quality.
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