So, I am going to assume that Single Action revolvers have not disappeared over the intervening 65 years ... also assuming of course that the Warhawk is not actually considered Single Action itself.
Given that, how would y'all go about making a ruling for a character who like to occasionally shoot wild west-style by fanning the hammer of his six-gun?
Full Version: Fannin'
Is there some reason that fanning a single action revolver would be relevant? I mean, DNI through a smartlink is a pretty damn fast trigger.
I guess you could say "If you take a -4 penalty for fanning, you can fire a SS revolver as if it were SA".
I guess you could say "If you take a -4 penalty for fanning, you can fire a SS revolver as if it were SA".
| QUOTE (Chandon @ Nov 6 2006, 01:48 PM) |
| Is there some reason that fanning a single action revolver would be relevant? I mean, DNI through a smartlink is a pretty damn fast trigger. |
Well, the way I see it, there are still a couple of people in the Sixth World without a DNI connection to their gun. And maybe even a pistol or two that hasn't as yet had a Smartlink added.
I was thinking "relevent" more as in "more effective than other options". I don't think that fanning a revolver is going to give you a higher rate of fire than smartlinked semi-auto.
Ouch. -4 Penalty? That's a bit excessive. Someone -running- while shooting a gun is getting a paltry -2 penalty. Seems like fanning the hammer would be a bit less difficult than that.
How about:
How about:
| QUOTE |
| 'Fan the Hammer' - Free Action A character with a Single Shot pistol can emulate the effects of a Semi-Automatic pistol by taking a free action. This shot normally incurs a -2 penalty, however a character may make a reaction test, and each success reduces this penalty by 1. |
Agility is already an overused Attribute as it is. I figure you can substitute reaction in there, as Agility is already being factored into the actual firing of the weapon. Fanning the Hammer can just as well be a matter of timing your motion, with the discharge of the weapon, hence Reaction.
There's a reason why guns have triggers on them rather than just being shot by using the hammer - fanning is innately less accurate than shooting normally. Also, the whole "let a SS shooter shot SA" is somewhat powerful - if you make it so that the player can do it consistently with no penalty that isn't necessarily a good idea.
How about this:
Fanning the Hammer: A character with a single shot pistol may take a -2 penalty and look foolish to fire as if his pistol was SA.
How about this:
Fanning the Hammer: A character with a single shot pistol may take a -2 penalty and look foolish to fire as if his pistol was SA.
That's fine too, really.
Though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are plenty of things more abuseable as it stands than a bulky short range weapon, with a small magazine, that requires two hands to fire in SA mode.
Though, I wouldn't worry too much about it. There are plenty of things more abuseable as it stands than a bulky short range weapon, with a small magazine, that requires two hands to fire in SA mode.
When you get hit by a rugar super warhawk using EX-Explosive by a guy fanning the hammer he looks anything but foolish. Assuming your able to stand up again.
Lets also recall that revolvers hold six shots not the 15 that the predator is going to use. Its a complex action to reload a revolver (speed loader included)
If you want to fire revolvers like SA take ambidex and hold one in each hand.
You get 2 single actions per pass (or was that simple?)
First Single Action fire gun 1
Second Single Action fire gun 2.
Your shooting as seperate simple actions, so there is no dice spliting and no penalty beyond an assumed -1 recoil.
I designed by own little SA revolver, about ten seconds ago.
Excalibur Protoype III
DV -6
AP -2
Ammo Capacity 6 Shots
Semi-Auto.
Cost 1,000
Availbilty 16
The Excalibur delivers the power of the Rugarwar hawk with the speed of a semi-auto.
Dispite the impressive weapon is does have its problems
The first being the gun suffers double the normal recoil problems -2 instead of -1, on the second shot.
The second problem is its prone to jaming, on a glitch the weapons spring jams up and it loses its Semi-auto capibility, An armor test (3) one round extended test will unjam the gun.
On a critical glitch the gun jams up and is unable to fire at all and recalls an armor test (4) one round extended test to fix the weapon.
Like other revolvers it can not be silenced
The gun is still in devlopment as Aries tries to remove the jamming problem they have so far been unable to remove this glitch with out sacrificing power. Only a hand full have been released to select customers for testing. It is rumored however an entire shipment was stolen and now these guns have found there way into numerious shadowrunnner hands.
Lets also recall that revolvers hold six shots not the 15 that the predator is going to use. Its a complex action to reload a revolver (speed loader included)
If you want to fire revolvers like SA take ambidex and hold one in each hand.
You get 2 single actions per pass (or was that simple?)
First Single Action fire gun 1
Second Single Action fire gun 2.
Your shooting as seperate simple actions, so there is no dice spliting and no penalty beyond an assumed -1 recoil.
I designed by own little SA revolver, about ten seconds ago.
Excalibur Protoype III
DV -6
AP -2
Ammo Capacity 6 Shots
Semi-Auto.
Cost 1,000
Availbilty 16
The Excalibur delivers the power of the Rugarwar hawk with the speed of a semi-auto.
Dispite the impressive weapon is does have its problems
The first being the gun suffers double the normal recoil problems -2 instead of -1, on the second shot.
The second problem is its prone to jaming, on a glitch the weapons spring jams up and it loses its Semi-auto capibility, An armor test (3) one round extended test will unjam the gun.
On a critical glitch the gun jams up and is unable to fire at all and recalls an armor test (4) one round extended test to fix the weapon.
Like other revolvers it can not be silenced
The gun is still in devlopment as Aries tries to remove the jamming problem they have so far been unable to remove this glitch with out sacrificing power. Only a hand full have been released to select customers for testing. It is rumored however an entire shipment was stolen and now these guns have found there way into numerious shadowrunnner hands.
| QUOTE (Chandon) |
| I was thinking "relevent" more as in "more effective than other options". I don't think that fanning a revolver is going to give you a higher rate of fire than smartlinked semi-auto. |
I'm not terribly concerned with 'relevant' or 'effective', or even 'looking stupid'. That is all beside the point if a player wants his character to actually do this.
Sure there are more effective shooting methods, but none of that really means anything when the player wants his character to encompass this type of style.
Just don't want "Fanning the Hammer" to turn into "Ruger Super Warhawk; Firing modes: SS/BF" 
Y'know, WoD 2.0 actually has this mechanic. I can't remember the exact details, but I know you have to have a specialization in revolvers, and a dramatic failure results in you sitting there like a retard, having snapped the hammer off.
| QUOTE (Chandon @ Nov 6 2006, 05:04 PM) |
| Just don't want "Fanning the Hammer" to turn into "Ruger Super Warhawk; Firing modes: SS/BF" |
Neither do I, which is one of the reasons I asked the question in the first place.
I was originally thinking of making the character split his Dice Pool, with possibly an additional minor (-1 to -2) penalty for the non-optimal firing position.
| QUOTE |
| I was originally thinking of making the character split his Dice Pool, with possibly an additional minor (-1 to -2) penalty for the non-optimal firing position. |
Still seems pretty harsh. 6P, with -2AP isn't anything to laugh at, sure. With some EX-EX, that's up to 8P, -4AP. And that'll definitely leave a mark. But the Ruger Super Warhawk is a hell of a gun, and leaving a mark is sort of the point.
But a 6 round cylinder is a pretty significant draw-back in a fire-fight. As are pistol ranges. As is the (Insert Game Master discretion here) fact that a Ruger Super Warhawk is closer to a hand canon, than a traditional pistol, when it comes to concealability.
If someone wants to base a concept around a little gunslinging, more power to 'em. As I said, there are much more effective choices out there when it comes to raw firepower.
And if you want to really throw a wrench into things, consider that a few of our World Record Holders in the catergory of fastest (And accurate) shots use revolvers instead of Pistols, because they can squeeze their shots off with a revolver faster than the bullets could cycle in the alternative. But that's been mentioned before, I'm sure.
The original Deadlands had Fannin' too, although I doubt looking at those mechanics would really help much in constructing it for SR. Could, I suppose, it's been a long time since I read those.
| QUOTE (Chandon @ Nov 6 2006, 04:31 AM) |
| There's a reason why guns have triggers on them rather than just being shot by using the hammer - fanning is innately less accurate than shooting normally. Also, the whole "let a SS shooter shot SA" is somewhat powerful - if you make it so that the player can do it consistently with no penalty that isn't necessarily a good idea. How about this: Fanning the Hammer: A character with a single shot pistol may take a -2 penalty and look foolish to fire as if his pistol was SA. |
How about:
Fanning the Hammer: A character with a single shot revolver may take a -2 penalty while emptying his gun and only making one ranged attack roll.
Just use a machine pistol already.
Machine Pistols are automatics and not used with the pistol skill.
The point is the image of the big revolver is cool but mechanically the game doesn't make the option viable.
Here's a better idea, anyone with at least seven ranks in pistols (aptitude quality to get to seven)) and specialized in revolvers can treat single shot revolvers as semi-auto, -2 Recoil on second shot instead of the usually
-1.
When the dice pool reaches the 18-22 range there really is no difference in the damage per shot between using the Aries Predator and Rugar warhawk.
The point is the image of the big revolver is cool but mechanically the game doesn't make the option viable.
Here's a better idea, anyone with at least seven ranks in pistols (aptitude quality to get to seven)) and specialized in revolvers can treat single shot revolvers as semi-auto, -2 Recoil on second shot instead of the usually
-1.
When the dice pool reaches the 18-22 range there really is no difference in the damage per shot between using the Aries Predator and Rugar warhawk.
Here's how I did it in SR3, if it's any help.
Didn't even think of checking your page. 
| QUOTE (eidolon @ Nov 6 2006, 02:40 PM) |
| The original Deadlands had Fannin' too, although I doubt looking at those mechanics would really help much in constructing it for SR. Could, I suppose, it's been a long time since I read those. |
Shootin': Pistols with a -2 penalty. Each hit and raise equals an extra bullet hit.
Doesn't apply so much anymore because DL is an open-ended dice system like SR3.
How about:
Fanning the Hammer:
Complex Action
Fire between 1-10 bullets (limited by capacity of gun) from a SS pistol. Attack suffers a -2 penalty for the attempt and all uncompensated recoil counts double for penalties. Only gyrostabilization can reduce recoil from slapping your gun around.
Most pistols aren't designed to be fired in this manner. As such manufacturers don't program them to work in this moe with smartgun systems. If you wish to fan with a smartgun system you must modify to gun to override its standard operating parameters. This takes a Logic+Armorer (4, 1 hour) extended test. Doing so removes the double recoil modifiers (so fire at normal recoil).
Ares Lone Star Pistol
SS, heavy pistol stats (like Ruger), comes with Smartgun system
costs the same as Ruger+SG+an extra 50 nuyen
A pistol specially designed by Ares to be compatible with trick gunplay and its smartgun system. It comes in a specially designed quick-draw holster. The gun does not have to be modified to be able to fan the hammer. A favorite among the more traditional members of the Lone Star Police Corporation. (Maybe give the user +1 dice for trick shots if he is using AR, such as firing without looking, banking shots, snap shots, etc).
| QUOTE |
| As a complex action, a single-action revolver may be "fanned," firing a wide burst (with an additional -2 penalty) containing a number of rounds up to the shooter's Pistols skill. |
I've seen some incredibly fast fanning by skilled shooters. I don't think this kind of ROF is too high.
There are a fair number of decent ideas here so far. My main concern is not making the technique too powerful when compared with using Semi Automatic pistols, while at the same time not making it suck too badly.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| When you get hit by a rugar super warhawk using EX-Explosive by a guy fanning the hammer he looks anything but foolish. Assuming your able to stand up again. Lets also recall that revolvers hold six shots not the 15 that the predator is going to use. Its a complex action to reload a revolver (speed loader included) If you want to fire revolvers like SA take ambidex and hold one in each hand. You get 2 single actions per pass (or was that simple?) First Single Action fire gun 1 Second Single Action fire gun 2. Your shooting as seperate simple actions, so there is no dice spliting and no penalty beyond an assumed -1 recoil. I designed by own little SA revolver, about ten seconds ago. Excalibur Protoype III DV -6 AP -2 Ammo Capacity 6 Shots Semi-Auto. Cost 1,000 Availbilty 16 The Excalibur delivers the power of the Rugarwar hawk with the speed of a semi-auto. Dispite the impressive weapon is does have its problems The first being the gun suffers double the normal recoil problems -2 instead of -1, on the second shot. The second problem is its prone to jaming, on a glitch the weapons spring jams up and it loses its Semi-auto capibility, An armor test (3) one round extended test will unjam the gun. On a critical glitch the gun jams up and is unable to fire at all and recalls an armor test (4) one round extended test to fix the weapon. Like other revolvers it can not be silenced The gun is still in devlopment as Aries tries to remove the jamming problem they have so far been unable to remove this glitch with out sacrificing power. Only a hand full have been released to select customers for testing. It is rumored however an entire shipment was stolen and now these guns have found there way into numerious shadowrunnner hands. |
One of the last model Webley pistols was an automatic revolver. The reciol of firing slid the cylender and whole part of the pistol above the grip and trigger back slightly. That turned the cylender and recocked the hammer. It could be fired quite quickly, but still only had 6 rounds. Though novel, this idea was dropped because semi-automatic, magazine fed pistols could do the job better and carried more ammo and were faster to reolad.
There's also the Mateba of GITS fame.
..I just solved the situation by giving KK4.3 Ambidexterity and having her shoot her Warhawks in alternating fashion ala Doc Holliday in Tombstone. Works for the GM, so it works for me.
And that is quite valid, but not in any way a solution to the question at hand.
..well for KK4.3 it was since the GM wouldn't allow fanning.
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