Not *exactly* a moot point now, but, with teh Tir's revolution and upending, the Paladins aren't what they used to be.

Then again, they haven't been done up in 4th ed.

So, how would *you* stat up a Tir Paladin?

Similar to a ghost, but less stealth, more combat, and lots of magic. Quickened spells and such,

Novel idea there, magic. Novel.

wait, Ghosts have magic now?

depends on the group. 'paladin' is a catch-all term, in the Tir; it's not a specific military unit or even collection of units. i've never used paladins, myself, but if i did, i'd probably have them be a group of moderate badasses with high-end equipment, led by a low-skill dumbass who's running around playing MAGIKAL ELFEN SOWRDMAN on his daddy's tab.

Yeah, there's scads of different "Paladins", ranging from the Royal Guard to the elite paramilitary types to rich kids playing pretend to John the Paladin of Baking.

I was mainly talking about the paramilitary types. Should they be at the level of the Red Samurai or the Ghosts? Lower? Higher?

They are all told that they are "special". The special-for-real types get to be ghosts.

That said, equipment can be bought and therefore is top-notch. Money for toys is no issue for elven nobility.

Well, most of the real hardcore Paladins were (or still are) sworn into the service of the (former) Princes. That in itself would lead me to believe that they are not too slack. Offhand, I'd rank them at Ghost or Wildcat level, although I think I might pump that a little, depending on the Paladin (and his current mission).

From the fluff, Paladins do not (usually) operate in groups as in there are no Paladin "units". As such I'd say stat him up instead per the Prime Runner rules at the level suitable to your campaign.

I cite "Worlds without End", pg. 184/185.

Paladins are basically the sons and daughters of nobility with ambition but nowhere to go. Those with ability on top of ambition will become special forces, not showcase guards.

A case could be made that they actually a super-secret secret service, but Harlequin would certainly have known that.

My paladins look like stick figures, but then I was never really good at drawing.
Oh..you wanted stats. I think mfb has a good take on it. There's a good dose of RL™ there.

A Paladin the runners might run into would be much like an elite Troubleshooter (As opposed to the bodyguards-type and the useless bored rich-boy type).

He could be anything from a Magician to a Hacker, as appropriate to the situation. He'd just be really good at solving sticky situations on the behalf of his Prince. That means good social abilities on top of his specialty and possibly a team of runner/mercenries on retainer. Indeed, he'd be call upon to solve situations that might have been handled by runners except that in this case the Prince is more interested in loyalty and competence than deniability.

So, special ops of *some* level seems to shake out, which is what I expected. Just have to decide if they're Red Sams or Ghosts, overall.

'Kay.

Now, what about the more normal Elven Soldier?

What's, say, Bob the Tir Borderguard look like? Firearms 3-ish, Outdoors ... 1? 2? What about sneaky skills, like Infiltration? Perception? Any melee combat skills? How about cyber?

In short, what would teh Mook Sheet look like for a group of, say, six Tir soldiers, should a certain running team who shall remain nameless have to ambush 'em and take their clothes to sneak into Tir lands?

...as mentioned in another thread, I've chosen to avoid messing with the TT until there is more Canon published.

Were it up to me, Paladins ( & maybe even the Ghosts) wouldn't be around anymore since the whole nobility/royalty schtick went down the tubes after the Council was dissolved and replaced by an elected government.

But then that's not here or there...I tried to second guess things like this before & only ended up trashing a good amount of original background material.

I'm not too sure that teh whole nobility schtick is gone, actually. Remember that they didn't have a rebellion because they hated the system ... they had a rebellion because the right to try to climb higher was taken away.

"What do you *mean* the Ascension Trials are cancelled?! You got yours, now I'm not allowed to get mine?! Hell with that! REVOLUTION!"

The majority were actually content with things like the Royal Court, the Trials, and so forth. When portland was sealed up, in exchange for using Seattle as the port of call, that's when things started going south, but the general populace (Read: Everyone who didn't live in Portland) was okay with it. Once they took away the right to move up in the social order, tho? That's when it all went to Hell.

-- Wak, needs desperately to find his copy of SoNA to review that bit.

To help on teh general Paladin issue, by the by, I've decided to pull an American and make words mean what I wish.

The Passionate

These are teh vast majority of those who would call themselves Paladins. They take up a lifelong interest in a field, be it art, science, a sport, whatever, and focus their life around this. One can be a Passionate Baker, for example, or a Passionate Hurler, just as oen could be a Passionate Painter or Passionate Chemist. It isn't a role to take lightly, as it requires a level of dedication and, let's face it, obsession, that most are neither comfortable with or capable of. These individuals are primarily respected by the overall community, but there are those who snort at such pretentious drek, mutter, "A job's a job," and move on.

The "Paladins

Little more than bored nobles or their bratty spoiled children, the "Paladins" take the name for themselves due to their station, galavanting about and acting like the cock of the walk, but, they're not deserving of the title. After a few years, most get bored with it and devote themselves to some other diversion, but a rare few wind up learning something from the experience and go on to a better life. These "Paladins" ride in expensive vehicles, use expensive toys that they barely care to learn about, and ride around looking for 'action', such as taking advantage of border hoppers, hunting Paracritters, or, rumor has it, having private 'hunts' on their estates ... note the low criminal population of the Tir.

The Paladins

Military Elite Units, the Paladins are the Tir Tairngire version of the Souix Wildcats, a small, elite paramilitary unit sent on vital missions. Highly-trained, with a high level of physical adepts and magicians, rather than cyber-soldiers, these are the special ops forces of the Tir. There are roughly one hundred of these operatives, nearly a fourth as large as the Aztlan Jaguar Guard, despite the massive disparity in the two nations' population, reflecting the high magical percentage of the Tir. These guys are the real hoop-kickers.

The High Paladins

These guys combine being Passionate with Paladin, dedicating themselves to serving one person as a personal guard. The Royal Guard of the High Prince, for example. Probably the rarist type of 'Paladin', and limited in what they do, but very good at what they do as well.

Or someone without an agenda focused on killing everything Findley had created, anyway.