Killing Hands applies to unarmed attacks. If the character is wearing brass knuckles or the like, would that increase his punch damage even with KH? Would it apply with Elemental Strike, Critical Strike and Distance Strike? What about a shock glove? The character can certainly use it on a kick even if he is wearing shoes or boots. Would other items that enhance strikes made with the unarmed combat skill work with these powers? My gut says yes but not on distance strike, since it is based more on the adepts energy and not on the physical punch. Any other opinions?

Also, opinions on weapon foci for unarmed combat. A pair of gloves, maybe shoes, or hand wraps, brass knuckles could it be a set of shoes and gloves? Maybe just a item worn elsewhere. Would they be bonded together or seperately?

I would not allow brass knuckles to add to the damage of killing hands. You use either your inate magical abilities to increase the damage, or you use the technological boost from the brass knuckles.

I would see no problem with a specialized set of wraps acting as weapon foci for unarmed combat.

In regards to brass knuckles, hardliner gloves, etc. I would say that they will add to the DV for Killing hands and any straight punch. No to distance strike, since the piece of metal on your hand isn't covering the distance. (Barring throwing it at the back of your enemies head, but that ruins the moment...)

I had a player who wanted an unarmed weapon focus for his physad character. He decided on the form of a class ring, but changed his mind and scrapped it before I had to decide whether to allow it.

Ye Olde Frosh Thumper!!!! Now THAT is a classy idea, LOL.

Here's one for you.
Should distance strike work with a weapon focus?

I have a house rule (for flavor reasons) that distance strike and elemental strike work with with a bonded weapon focus. You don't get the killing hands damage on top of weapon damage or anything, you just get to use the special effect with the weapon.

Well, no, all of those powers apply only to unarmed attacks. If by weapon you mean sword or club then none of them would work, as written. You of course can run whatever game you like.

I know they don't, I asked should they.

Nothing suggested here works RAW. By RAW, killing hands doesn't stack with other unarmed enhancers such as brass knucles, even ones that are weapon foci. It's one or the other. A weapon focus that is a weapon that uses unarmed combat as it's attack skill would add to that, but it wouldn't be allowed to use any of the Killing hands based powers.

Actually, no where in the book does it say that killing hands doesn't work if you have gloves on. Nor does it say that gloves can't be a weapon foci. What about killing hands and a cyber hand? Or elemntal strike and a cyber hand, or even 4 cyberlimbs?

I think if you want those powers to work with a weapon foci that does ot count as unarmed, you would at least need a different power (Distance strike [Weapon]). I don't know if I would allow it in my game.

Critical Strike says: it uses your magic to increase the DV of your unarmed attacks, as you strike with more proficiency and power. Where is the line drawn between armed and unarmed? What is the difference between a wrap or boxing glove that is a foci and gym shoes or rubber gloves?

I'd say the power works whatever you have on your hands, you just can't stack the bonus. I don't think I'd allow it with cyberarms at all (and because you can't stack the bonus it would be pointless anyway). If you have cyberarms; boost the damage with cyber and spend power points on the skill.

I would allow Elemental Strike to be used with attuned weapons. Why? Because a katana is cool but a flaming katana is cooler. For certain character concepts (derived heavily from anime and martial arts films). I might even allow Distance Strike and Killing Hands to stack onto an attuned weapon if the Adept took some severe limitations to those powers. (Because cutting a concrete block in half with a boken is cool.)

However, one should understand that this will upset the balance of melee characters.

Fine with that. Compared to gun-fu, melee is underpowered anyway.

OK, Melee may be more powerful in SR than in real life, but it's still less powerful than guns in either setting. Since I prefer that a person who makes a melee character for style reasons not be screwed out the ass for it, I don't mind giving them a boost.

(Dear god, I just refered to real life as a setting.)

One thing I would not do is allow penatrating strike or Critical Strike to work with melee weapons. Because that would be broken, since there is no cap on damage. So really, I'm comparing a Penatrating Strike, Critical strike Killing hands against a bonded melee weapon.

Bonded melee weapon, lowest cost possible BP wise, is 4 (3 for the cash, 1 for the bonding) Call that a survival knife, and we have 3 BP for str/2 +1, with -1 AP and 1 bonus die on blades. That'd be 3 Karma to bond.

Vs. Killing hands, 1 level of critical strike, 1 level of pentrating strike, and 1 level of improved ability (unarmed). That costs about 15 BP, or a highly variable amount of Karma depending.

But the killing hands is with you always. It can't be taken from you, It can't be used as a ritual link, it can't break on a bad roll. Is that worth 11 more BP? Probably Not. Though Killing hands damage can be increased further, while the knife can only gain more dice. Cut that way, Maybe the weapon-compatable versions of distance strike and elemental strike should be .5 PP, and require the killing hands version as a prerequisite.

Any way you slice it, distance strike doesn't compare to a gun, and there's too many awesome examples of characters in fiction using a distance strike-like ability with melee weapons that I can't ignore it. So I need to find some balanced way for it to work, because it needs to exist.

The nice thing about killing hands is getting it through a security checkpoint. Not so easy with a combat axe.

As an aside: focus, foci. Singular, plural. "A weapon foci" is bad grammar. Not "grammer", grammar. Sorry, I just felt the need to bitch. Nothing personal against anyone.

Actually mellee is not overpowered in Shadowrun. The main reason Guns are superior to weapons like sword is because they have superior range and penetration, vs armor. In close quarters though a person with a gun is at a severe disadvantage, a master swordsman would sever the arms of the person trying take arm then procede to gut them. Also Guns do not have more killing capacity than a sword or an axe. You imbed an Axe in someones chest and shoot someone with a small caliber round. I almost guarentee you the axe will do more bodily harm to the person. Alot of people would even survive the gun shot. i doubt very seriously they would survive the axe.

i think i mentioned range even in the quote you took from me .. ya at a range a person with a fire arm is at an advantage... up close things get very frantic that makes getting a good shot only hard but sometimes dangerous for the wielder of the firearm. A person in mellee range with a sword going against someone with a firearm is most likely going to kill the person with the firearm.. granted that doesnt mean the person with the firearm could not win but the odds are against him.

You did. I think even more than range, though, it's the battlefields your GM puts you on.

The GM determines where the firefight occurs. He sets the possible range options. Even if you *want* to be up close and personal, if you never get a chance, you're outta luck.

It really depends on your concept of the adept. For a wuxia/chi based adept, distance strikes make a ton of sense. And I think most adepts are pitched in that sort of view.

If you're more in a rituals of power idea, maybe not.