Dumpshock Forums > AR/VR question

Centella

Nov 12 2006, 03:54 PM

We're finally going to play our first SR4 session. I love this augmented reality! Now you don't have to be a hacker to enjoy the realm of virtual space. However we had some problems in imagining how AR looks like and what you can do in it. (I searched the forum but coudn't find what I was looking for)

As I understand it, VR is like the "old matrix", so we (should) know pretty much how it works and looks like. But what about AR?
1. Can you do everything in AR as in VR?
2. If yes, how does it look like. E.g. hacking a system and hopping to different nodes from there on, attacking IC, other personna's,...

So far, we see AR like some kind of "desktop" projected on your eyes(goggles)/brain(simsense)/cyberware/... and all the broadcasting devices (AROs) picked up by your commlink are displayed. If you access a node, you see some window popping up. And then ... hmmm ... you see what exactly? Something that looks like VR?

Then there is the multiple connection thing. In AR, you could have different windows opened for each connection. Do you see your own icon when you have multiple connections to the same system? Then you have your VR connection you can switch to. Can you see your AR-icon(s) when on the same system? Btw, how does a wireless network look in VR?

...swallow... That were all the other questions that were popping up in my head when I was writing this

.

Konsaki

Nov 12 2006, 04:03 PM

My take on AR is floating windows that are more like a GUI than anything else, or floating text or pictures if thats your thing. Its supposed to be useful during real life situations so it wont block your vision, but you can see and interact with it, if you have the right gear.

Look at some of the pictures in the BBB and you will see some people typing on some floating keyboards and such. Thats AR right there for personal use.
AR is also illusions produced by clubs or other places, like making a waterfall in the center of the room. If you have the right gear, you can see, feel, smell, hear, and interact with it.

Jaid

Nov 12 2006, 04:08 PM

1) you can do most things in AR that you can do in VR. it usually takes longer, and you don't get the bonus for being in hotsim VR, but yes you can hack nodes and such. the advantage to doing it in AR is, of course, the fact that you aren't just lying there waiting to get shot in the face.

2) generally speaking, i imagine it looks however you and/or the person who designed it wanted. think of it as being like a holographic projection. generally speaking, it should be at least translucent so you can see through the objects to perceive RL, but this may not always be the case (some spam may intentionally block your vision of everything else for example). remember, it can potentially extend to all your senses, and if you have a sim module, it can extend to your emotions even.

GrinderTheTroll

Nov 13 2006, 06:36 PM

QUOTE (Centella)

We're finally going to play our first SR4 session. I love this augmented reality! Now you don't have to be a hacker to enjoy the realm of virtual space. However we had some problems in imagining how AR looks like and what you can do in it. (I searched the forum but coudn't find what I was looking for)

As I understand it, VR is like the "old matrix", so we (should) know pretty much how it works and looks like. But what about AR?
1. Can you do everything in AR as in VR?
2. If yes, how does it look like. E.g. hacking a system and hopping to different nodes from there on, attacking IC, other personna's,...

So far, we see AR like some kind of "desktop" projected on your eyes(goggles)/brain(simsense)/cyberware/... and all the broadcasting devices (AROs) picked up by your commlink are displayed. If you access a node, you see some window popping up. And then ... hmmm ... you see what exactly? Something that looks like VR?

Then there is the multiple connection thing. In AR, you could have different windows opened for each connection. Do you see your own icon when you have multiple connections to the same system? Then you have your VR connection you can switch to. Can you see your AR-icon(s) when on the same system? Btw, how does a wireless network look in VR?

...swallow... That were all the other questions that were popping up in my head when I was writing this

.

I think you've got a good handle on it here. AR is an overlay on your field-of-vision, while VR becomes your world.

Think of AR as a smaller sub-set of VR in that you can get penalties for having too-much AR going on so much so it will approach the point of being the penalty of trying to do something in full-VR mode.

Centella

Nov 14 2006, 12:29 PM

QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll)

AR is an overlay on your field-of-vision, while VR becomes your world.

And this is exactly what confuses me. In VR, everything you do (hacking, cybercombat,...) has a representation in that world (subnodes can be reached by an elevator taken from the lobby, IC might look like a black knight attacking you in a system that might look like a forrest,...).

But AR? As it is just an overlay, how are things and actions represented? For AROs, chatting, checking your mail and all these simple thing, it's more or less clear. But e.g. cybercombat,IC,accessing nodes?

DireRadiant

Nov 14 2006, 03:33 PM

QUOTE (Centella)

But AR? As it is just an overlay, how are things and actions represented? For AROs, chatting, checking your mail and all these simple thing, it's more or less clear. But e.g. cybercombat,IC,accessing nodes?

There's no reason it should be any different then your idea of VR, except that the Real World is there, and the AR objects are obvious overlays. So imagine a bad holographic projection of a vending machine overlaying the real vending machine. In AR, you can tell the real vending machine and AR one apart easily enough. In VR, you could only see the VR one and would have an enormous difficulty seeing the Real one.

AR Real World > AR
VR AR > Real World

If you look a the perception modifiers for doing real world actions while in VR, and AR you can see how this maps out mechanically.

GrinderTheTroll

Nov 14 2006, 05:39 PM

QUOTE (Centella)

QUOTE (GrinderTheTroll @ Nov 13 2006, 07:36 PM)

AR is an overlay on your field-of-vision, while VR becomes your world.

And this is exactly what confuses me. In VR, everything you do (hacking, cybercombat,...) has a representation in that world (subnodes can be reached by an elevator taken from the lobby, IC might look like a black knight attacking you in a system that might look like a forrest,...).

But AR? As it is just an overlay, how are things and actions represented? For AROs, chatting, checking your mail and all these simple thing, it's more or less clear. But e.g. cybercombat,IC,accessing nodes?

Helps me to put AR in terms of a "2070 command line interface" (if ya ken it) for VR. You'd have lots of lists and windows and ARO of what's in your face (no penalty or bonus) but the advantage of full-VR kicks in (+2 dice pool) when you become your Persona.

More specifically to your question (cybercombat, accessing nodes, etc.) lots of graphical visual cues, maps, overlays, etc. It's really left vague (which confuses me from prior Matrix versions) but the basic rules don't change leaving you (and your GM) to fill in the gaps with your imagination.

My idea of cybercombat in AR would be "floating" iconography of hostile IC/Agents/Personas with flashing imagery of "INCOMMING" messages or "VIRUS DETECTED" messages or maybe some trideo like animated representations of attacks, hostile actions against me.

Knows the rules and adapt them to fit your concept of what your AR looks like.