Hello,

My character is a stealthy type and I was interested in a variety of silent non-gunpowder related ways to incapacitate foes. I've been considering drugs, tranqs and other means - but the garrote seems like a good way to go too if one doesn't particularly care about lethality.

The way I figure it, garotte + surprise = silent kill; which is the best kind.

But I couldn't find any rules regarding garottes in the core rule book. Anyone have any suggestions on the system to use? I figure I'd need to pick up Exotic Melee Weapon - Garotte in order to use it properly. But then what are the rules of DV? Or would it just be like drowning (a little more traumatic than that, I'd imagine... What if it was a razor'd garotte instead of a normal strangulation one?, etc.)

Just thought I'd throw it out there...

Thanks,
Aemon

A garrote would be most closely related to grappling under the combat rules, IMO. Obviously it'll help keep them from shouting out to some extent, and as long as you keep them grappled and the garrote on, I believe they take damage by default (meaning they can only resist damage).

Or so I think. I tried to plot out a grapple killer at one point...grappling is normally unarmed combat, perhaps you can claim the garrote as a unique grapple weapon to boost the DV for your efforts?

As per razor-wire garrotes...well, treat it like a razor wire whip instead of normal grapple damage? ouchies.

Subduing combat, but with physical damage instead of stun? +1 DV with razorwire?

I love the rules for subduing combat. If you have decent strength and a superior unarmed skill then your target, you will likely be able to inflict your full strength in damage (as opposed to half strength for regular attacks) and the opponent wont be able to dodge. Even better; all they can do on their turn is try and get out of the grip, and if they fail you do it again next turn. Yet if your a worse fighter or a weak guy trying to wrestle a troll, it will be almost useless. I think it works perfectly.

If you add surprise it's even better. Then the target does not get to roll to resist the initial attack, and you can use all your hits as a threshold for breaking the grapple. That way you may even be able to keep a formidable opponent in a vice for a few initiative passes. And if you got your strength cybered up past 6 you should be sending the target into a downward spiral of damage modifications pretty damn fast. Man, that's evil!

Hmm, I could be facing a problem then, because my character has a strength of 2...

I can work on that - that and I have no hand-to-hand combat skill... I figured it'd be some sort of exotic weapon, although I can see how it can be ruled as a grappling attack.

Thanks for the input everyone!

You'd want to be strong anyway, don't want that troll grabing you and throwing you across the room. The second danger is if you don't take them down fast they have a nice easy shot at your head with any pistol sized weapon.

The last problem you could run into are those guys with internal air tanks in there chest a nice bit of cyberware for a 2 hour air supply.

Look to the rope section for climbing rope ... no grappling gloves, eat 8S for yoru trouble.

Sounds like an excellent base for a Monowire (Or nearly so) Garrotte to me.

if you merely want a silent kill from behind: cut the target's throat. House-Rule it this way: if the target has unprotected throat (that is, no full body armor), you only resist the knife attack with Body (and no bonus from bone lacing either), and things like dermal plating "armor".
of course, the target can't roll to dodge (surprise), so you basically roll your blades skill + agility, and you get str/2 + 1 + hits vs bare Body.

Here's another question for you; If I hit someone with a Stunbaton - do my extra successes count as extra damage? I doubt it; since the damage comes from the electrical discharge as opposed to my braining them particularly well.

I need to find quick take downs in stealth situations, even against armoured opponents. I know, tough deal, but that's sort of the way my character is trying to roll...

For quick, guarenteed takedowns in a stealth situation, I'd start looking at toxins. Throw ether over their mouth and nose, inject them with a poison, something along those lines. Toxins are usually quick acting and lethal.

Making a called shot to ignore armour from Surprise with a knife and decent skill would model slitting someone's throat from behind fairly well. But then, making a called shot (this time for bonus damage) to the back of the head with a silenced pistol would probably be more painful.

Just a note, our group changed the rather powerful -1/+1DV called shot to -2/+1DV. Seems to be working well so far. In this situation that -8 dice from ignoring armour or boosting damage would be fine, since they can't dodge.

problem is that a monofilament garrote would cause a mess, while a regular one would keep the floors clean. This may be a factor in a lot of sneaky situations.

You would want one that was hot enough to cauterize as it cut. Though that would stink. Toxins are probably still your best bet.

Toxins would be best, though the good ones are expensive and highly illegal. I still say the idea about garrote is a good one if you want a simple down and dirty variant. By the rules, it's possible to equal the efficiency of toxins if your strong enough and good enough compaired to the target.

Wow! Some great ideas here. I think there will be some cases where a mono-filament wire will be useful; if you don't care about creating a mess. Or even the heated one if you're in a well-ventilated area (or outdoors). Plus, it would be faster and more efficient (i.e. requiring less strength) than a straight up strangulation garrote.

I think I will look into toxins/poisons. I haven't really looked over those rules at all so I know practically nothing about them. What are effective delivery mechanisms? I assume some sort of dart/tranq gun. Would I need to have knowledge (Toxicology) to make use of these, or would that just mean I could brew my own concoctions?

Afaik slitting someones throat can be very noisy, when the air inside the lungs escapes through the cut.

Take a look at the following two injection toxins, and either use disposable syringes in Melee or take the exotic weapons skill and use a super-squirt. Both take immediate effect.

Narcojet: 10 stun (minus the toxin resistance test), 50¥. Double-tapping a guard with this would take him out for certain.

Gamma-scolpamine: They need 8 hits on a toxin resistance test or else they're paralyzed for an hour. When they wake up, their Willpower is downed by 3, making for easy interrogation. 200¥

Gamma-scolpamine is really good, but also availablity 14. Narcojet is only availability 8.

The mono-filament garrote still good though.
My Elf will have to try that with his a mono-filament whip.

I have heard tales of a British Spec Forces hitter using a Garotte of Piano wire and being able to decapitate people...

Two related questions. A, what are the statistics for Cyanide. It is listed in the Street Gear chapter, but not mentioned in the section on toxins.

Second, can shuriken be used as a delivery method for injection based toxins?

Umm about that 8 power toxin Gamma-scolpamine, You don't have to score 8 hits to avoid being paralyzed.
After you make your resistence test if the power is still higher then your reaction then your paralyzed otherwise its just a -2 penalty for a while. This applies to all toxins with the paralysis effect.
Check page 245


So if your reaction is 7 say from your various cyberware. You'd only need to score 2 hits againts gamma-scolpamine to avoid the paralysis.

Cyanide was left out of the book accidentaly and is to be included in a future update. Or so I was told by the wondful folks who wrote it.

They'd be immune to the normal dosage for paralysis. A higher dosage would have a higher power at DM's discretion.
They would still take a -2 penalty to all actions for one hour if they failed to net 8 hits and they'd still suffer the truth serum effect.

Huh! Good to know, if a slightly wonky rule. I'd probably play it more like D&D- each point of remaining power reduces reaction by 1, and anyone with 0 reaction is paralyzed. Alternately (or in tandem), much like bone lacing isn't counted for anything besides damage tests, not count wired reflexes when it comes to being paralyzed. Not much thought behind all this, just musings.

Edit: Still works well for taking out guards, though, since they're unlikely to be cyber'd up the wazoo enough for it to matter. Double-tapping them with the stun juice is still more reliable and cheaper, though.

Actually wired reflexs would easily count because of how the paralysis works on these toxins. The drug paralysis the target by Blocking the "body’s neuromuscular signals", things such as wired reflexs and reaction enhancers target the same area.


And you can always hit some one with a higher dose which can increase the power.