Has anyone begun converting the submersion abilities from SR3?
My thoughts were a Intuition + Magic/Resonance test, but I'm not sure if it should be an extended test or a one-time one.
For TMs it would be an ability which could be picked up during submersion, so a metamagic would be appropriate for adepts.
thoughts?
Full Version: Info Sortilage
why would adepts get it?
There are no digital adepts in SR4... They were a type of otaku, weren't they? Since there are no more otaku, there are no more digital adepts
Digital adepts was a term that I was using for Hacker Adepts, since making a PhysAd Hacker is now doable within SR4.
yep, i understand the hacker adept thing... that's what i read it as...
i'm just not getting why adepts would get this ability (of course, perhaps i'm just not fully clear on what it does... never played an otaku in 3rd)
seems to me we should be letting the TM have at least something for himself that others can't get. it's all very well and good that a TM can have sprites, but it's nice to not totally suck without them every once in a while...
i'm just not getting why adepts would get this ability (of course, perhaps i'm just not fully clear on what it does... never played an otaku in 3rd)
seems to me we should be letting the TM have at least something for himself that others can't get. it's all very well and good that a TM can have sprites, but it's nice to not totally suck without them every once in a while...
Info Sortilage is the ability to take seemingly disparate pieces of information from data searches and make logical leaps to get the pieces to fall together properly. (In cinema this is often seen in a montage, The Usual Suspects has the detective do it at the end of the movie.)
Because this ability is not inherently technical, it draws a lot on intuition and half-remembered data to fill in the holes, I thought it was a viable metamagic for PhysAds.
Because this ability is not inherently technical, it draws a lot on intuition and half-remembered data to fill in the holes, I thought it was a viable metamagic for PhysAds.
| QUOTE (McQuillan @ Nov 16 2006, 08:18 PM) |
| Info Sortilage is the ability to take seemingly disparate pieces of information from data searches and make logical leaps to get the pieces to fall together properly. (In cinema this is often seen in a montage, The Usual Suspects has the detective do it at the end of the movie.) Because this ability is not inherently technical, it draws a lot on intuition and half-remembered data to fill in the holes, I thought it was a viable metamagic for PhysAds. |
so, in other words...
| QUOTE (Street Magic @ Pg 174) |
| Analytics Cost: .25 per level Analytics improves the adept’s logical ability to detect and analyze patterns, puzzles, and ciphers. It is especially useful for clue-hunting and evidence analysis, providing the subject with amazing deductive powers. |
kinda like that?
(on a side note, given what it does, i am changing my question: why would TMs get it?)
[edit] didn't want to post the whole power, but if you read further in it basically does what you're looking for [/edit]
OK, see, It's divining for otaku. It'll work just like the divining metamagic, only using data search in place of arcana. A technomancer would pick it up as a echo or whatever it's called when they get a submersion grade.
| QUOTE (McQuillan) |
| Info Sortilage is the ability to take seemingly disparate pieces of information from data searches and make logical leaps to get the pieces to fall together properly. |
Damn, now I have to try build a mentat-like char. (As in mentats from Frank Herberts Dune.)
Hacker adepts should just use the Divination metamagic, since there is nothing to stop them taking it.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| Hacker adepts should just use the Divination metamagic, since there is nothing to stop them taking it. |
once again, look up the analytics power from street magic. it appears info sortilage has been combined into the anlaytics power, as far as i can tell.
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
once again, look up the analytics power from street magic. it appears info sortilage has been combined into the anlaytics power, as far as i can tell. |
However, since some areas still don't have Street Magic that may not be possible (and I'm too cheap to fork out shipping for non-limited or special editions).
I don't see a reason not to have it as an ability for TMs. Analytics seems like it would work in the real world as well whereas Info Sortilage is only useable in the Matrix/AR. Actually kinda underpowered compared to the new adept power.
Which raises the question of why aren't adepts the masters of the Matrix? Just because they don't have sprites?
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
| Which raises the question of why aren't adepts the masters of the Matrix? Just because they don't have sprites? |
Pretty much.
| QUOTE (Fortune) | ||
Pretty much. |
they need a few things to help them along. first off, they need a sustaining focus equivalent, imo. as in, burning through sprite tasks is not enough, they need something to eliminate (or at least reduce) the 2 dice penalty from sustaining a CF, because they sure as heck can't afford to have all their CFs at the level they need.
personally, i think the best way to make TMs viable is to use the skill + attribute capped by program rating houserule (or even one where you add the program rating instead of just replacing your attribute, though this requires some changes to the rest of the system to compensate for the higher dice pools).
however, if you really really really want to be amazingly good at one and only one thing, technomancers are the archetype for you. for example, from chargen, you can bust out the technomantic "rigger":
resonance 6
command 6
thread command up to 12 (may require edge)
have a registered sprite assist operation on your command CF (presumably you register sprites as soon as you are able, rather than paying BP to start with them. assume rating 4 registered sprite, and keep at least one more handy for taking over the sustaining of the CF).
have a machine sprite diagnose your vehicle. (rating 6, does not need to be registered, needs either one or two services depending if your GM requires separate use for the weapon; typically gives 4 extra dice).
pilot: (vehicle type of choice) (specialisation of choice) 5 (+2)
gunnery (weapon type of choice... my preference is ballistic) 5 (+2)
add in hotsim bonus for remote controlling in hotsim.
that's 16 (attribute via command) + 4 (diagnostics) + 7 (skill) +2 (hotsim) = 29 dice.
18 dice (16 reaction, 2 hotsim) on passive defense, and an extra 2 dice for attacking with a smartlink. of course, this only lasts for a few rounds, though. but it is bloody scary to be up against such a monstrosity for those few rounds, which is probably more than enough time to kill you and then some.
as another example: the cybercombat TM.
resonance 6
attack/black hammer/blackout 6
thread up to 12, get help from sprite, and you have a rating 16 attack program. which, for the record, means if you hit, you are dealing a lot of damage. enough to one-shot them most likely if you use the physical damage black IC.
as yet another example: the stealth TM. same thing but with stealth. good luck to the system on detecting him anytime soon.
basically, TMs can get really really crazy for a while (or just moderately crazy for a short while) when the program rating becomes really significant, as it does for damaging programs, stealth, and command.
so, sure, hacker adepts may be much more versatile... but within a few specific realms of specialty, the technomancer can do scary things™.
TMs do however run into a problem with what you outlined in 1 and 2. That is that it takes time for them to power up like that. That means that they are either the aggressors or they get panel beaten for a pass or two before they are ready to go.
But yes, they are the ghost in the machine as far as #3 goes.
But yes, they are the ghost in the machine as far as #3 goes.
well, it takes them a little time to power up if they are surprised, it's true.
trick 1 requires three simple actions, the others require two.
of course, even without those, 12 dice on passive defense (12 reaction -2 sustaining +2 hotsim) for the "rigger" should keep him alive nicely, and 21 dice to attack is not exactly a laughing matter either. and in the second one they can choose to instead just straight up attack with their massive threaded form that they've been keeping handy (ie, you thread in the morning and sustain it, then tell the sprite to take over if you have time, otherwise just use it) and probably knock out most targets in one hit (heck, with normal rules they're probably tossing around 16 dice on their matrix attack). and of course, trick number 3 works just fine for a good while with stealth "only" at 12, and can buy you time to prepare for cybercombat for the previous trick if needed.
trick 1 requires three simple actions, the others require two.
of course, even without those, 12 dice on passive defense (12 reaction -2 sustaining +2 hotsim) for the "rigger" should keep him alive nicely, and 21 dice to attack is not exactly a laughing matter either. and in the second one they can choose to instead just straight up attack with their massive threaded form that they've been keeping handy (ie, you thread in the morning and sustain it, then tell the sprite to take over if you have time, otherwise just use it) and probably knock out most targets in one hit (heck, with normal rules they're probably tossing around 16 dice on their matrix attack). and of course, trick number 3 works just fine for a good while with stealth "only" at 12, and can buy you time to prepare for cybercombat for the previous trick if needed.
Besides, Runners usually ARE the agressors.
| QUOTE (PlatonicPimp) |
| Besides, Runners usually ARE the agressors. |
well, the ones that survive, anyways.
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
| However, since some areas still don't have Street Magic that may not be possible (and I'm too cheap to fork out shipping for non-limited or special editions). |
| QUOTE (Aaron) | ||
|
well, one could potentially also not have a bank account, paypal account, or credit card you know
(after all, it is theoretically possible that people on these boards are minors, and i know i've heard of at least one country where minors may not have bank accounts).
Where do they put their gold?
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Nov 17 2006, 08:04 PM) | ||
well, one could potentially also not have a bank account, paypal account, or credit card you know (after all, it is theoretically possible that people on these boards are minors, and i know i've heard of at least one country where minors may not have bank accounts). |
Okay, that's fair.
Although, as a bit of an aside, while the generation at the younger end of FanPro's target demographic is famous for complaing, I am a member of the generation at the high end of of FanPro's demographic that is famous for not caring. =)
And on the other end of things, we're not going to post the rules from a book up just because you don't have it. That's against Dumpshock's policies. Only stuff out of print gets linked.
On the topic at hand, I don't think that Analytics is the equivalent of info sortiliage. The old Otaku Power specifically worked as the otaku version of divination. It was an echo (otaku metamagic), and it didn't come in grades.
So the technomancer would get info sortiliage proper, which I still think acts just like the divination metamagic only using data search. The hacker adept gets analytics, and has to make due without special computer divination (they can det the regular version, though).
On the topic at hand, I don't think that Analytics is the equivalent of info sortiliage. The old Otaku Power specifically worked as the otaku version of divination. It was an echo (otaku metamagic), and it didn't come in grades.
So the technomancer would get info sortiliage proper, which I still think acts just like the divination metamagic only using data search. The hacker adept gets analytics, and has to make due without special computer divination (they can det the regular version, though).
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