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twilite
I'm still trying to understand the matrix (I'm playing an infiltration/combat type now) and was looking at the differences between AR and VR for a hacker adept (not TM's). Please tell me if I'm missing something about the trade-offs.

VR
Benefits
+2 dice to all tests
Cold sim: Matrix Initiative is Response + Intuition with 2 passes
Hot sim: Matrix Initiative is Response + Intuition + 1 with 3 passes

Penalties
You may be affected by Black Hammer and Blackout, both for damage and preventing you from logging off
Need Biofeedback filter
You suffer dumpshock if kicked off the matrix
You may only effectively interact with the matrix and not the real world (-6 dice)

AR
Benefits
Use meat initiative and passes
Unaffected by Black Hammer and Blackout
Don't suffer dumpshock
Can interact with physical world without penalty
Do not need Biofeedback filter

Penalties
Do not get the +2 dice for VR

So considering that you can be just as fast out of the box in terms of initiative (8 Reaction, 5 Intuition, 3 Passes v. 6 Response, 6 Intuition, +1, 3 Passes), it seems that you are trading 2 dice for physical safety and utility. Is that about it? Is there anything else you can't do from AR that you can from VR (Other than perhaps the Reality Filter program)? It seems like it may be worthwhile, with the right build, to use AR as your primary connection mode, and save VR for safer efforts like Data Searches.
hyzmarca
Actually, you can get 4 AR passes out of the box by using Wired 3, Improved Reflexes 3, or a Force 3 Increases Reflexes spell.
twilite
True, but I was aiming for a reasonably balanced character, especially considering that it's an adept and so needs somewhat essence-friendly solutions, and that self-buffing means more skill points pulled from other skills to get to casting and for the foci (get to 4 passes by using edge up front on the casting, right, as you are limited in successes by the force and capped by rating 3 sustaining focus otherwise?). But sure you can, even starting out, be much faster and have more passes in AR than VR. Is that worth it compared to the +2 dice all the time? And is there anything that I missed?
FrankTrollman
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Actually, you can get 4 AR passes out of the box by using Wired 3, Improved Reflexes 3, or a Force 3 Increases Reflexes spell.

That would be a Force 4 Imp Reflexes, and Wired 3 and Synaptic Boosters 3 aren't available at chargen due to availability restrictions.

-Frank
lorechaser
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 24 2006, 02:49 AM)
Actually, you can get 4 AR passes out of the box by using Wired 3, Improved Reflexes 3, or a Force 3 Increases Reflexes spell.

That would be a Force 4 Imp Reflexes, and Wired 3 and Synaptic Boosters 3 aren't available at chargen due to availability restrictions.

-Frank

You could pick up improved reflexes 3 (the adept power) for 5 pp, but then you only have 1 pp left (if you have 6 magic and no ess) - hardly ideal for playing a hacker adept.

+2 dice is pretty significant, too.
Jaid
just a couple of other things to note:

1) the +2 dice from VR are hotsim only. similarly, you only worry about physical damage from IC if you are in hotsim. cold VR you only worry about stun and don't get the 2 dice

2) you get a couple of other benefits as well. if you like to rig stuff, then in hotsim VR your vehicle tests have a threshold 1 lower. for certain matrix tasks, the time for an interval goes way down (probing the target, for example).

3) needing biofeedback filter isn't much of a disadvantage. let's face it, with the program costs the way they are pretty much any non-TM hacker is gonna have every program anyways. and you only need the biofeedback filter when you're actually facing black IC anyways.

basically, what it comes down to is this: is it worth the essence (and accompanying magic loss) for the benefits of AR with multiple IPs? possibly. depends how much hacking you plan on doing while interacting with the real world at the same time. if you're an on-site decker (and it kinda sounds like you are) then using AR would be worth it, as a general rule. if you hack from afar, then VR should be just fine.
PlatonicPimp
Also, extended matrix tests take a shorter amount of time in VR than AR.

Don't forget that your GM might use the optional rule where you can Geas your adept powers for a points rebate. I've written up a hacker adept who geased all his powers to "while using AR without a simlink." That was overly specific, but I likes teh Idea that his magic only worked when he was using the sense by sense interfaces. Anyway, that geas is like getting yourself 1.5PP extra, so long as you can think of an appropriate geas for your character.

Also, if you are going hacker adept, you MUST take multitasking. The ablity to perceive in detail as a free action is invaluable on the matrix, and those extra free actions when not in cyber-combat are useful as well. It's only .5 points, and it's worth way more than 2 extra dice on tests.
twilite
Thank you for the feedback. I was looking at an on-site decker, and I had been looking at Multi-tasking, +1 Hacking, +1 Perception for the power point that remained after buying cyber at character gen.
Butterblume
Multitasking is a great power, especially for a tech-savy adept. I am so taking it for my infiltrator, so he can listen to different sound filters and pictures from surveillance equipment he planted, simultaneously.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Also, extended matrix tests take a shorter amount of time in VR than AR.

sadly the only action i can think of that takes less time in VR is the actual act of cracking(hacking) the targets firewall. outside of that, it takes the same whatever the mode. thats all iirc btw...
Jaid
QUOTE (hobgoblin)
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp @ Nov 24 2006, 06:27 PM)
Also, extended matrix tests take a shorter amount of time in VR than AR.

sadly the only action i can think of that takes less time in VR is the actual act of cracking(hacking) the targets firewall. outside of that, it takes the same whatever the mode. thats all iirc btw...

they also take a shorter amount of time because of the +2 dice if you're in hotsim though nyahnyah.gif

+2 dice is not that big of a deal... until you add it up over 10 initiative passes wink.gif
PlatonicPimp
Well, here's the million nuyen question: Does improved ability (hacking) work when you are in full VR?

The question really comes down to this: the rules state that no magic works in the matrix. Does using an adept power count? You use the adept power on yourself, but you are on the matrix: tricky question. It's kinda a GM tossup.

But if adept powers do not work on the matrix, it's a question of free +2 initiative passes and +2 dice, or a half dozen points of adept powers to do the same thing in AR. If they DO work in VR, then you just get the improved ability and go at it.

Like I said, I avioded the question purposefully by having my Geasa be that his powers only worked in AR. Mostly because I liked the flavor of an all AR hacker.

toturi
QUOTE (FrankTrollman)
QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Nov 24 2006, 02:49 AM)
Actually, you can get 4 AR passes out of the box by using Wired 3, Improved Reflexes 3, or a Force 3 Increases Reflexes spell.

That would be a Force 4 Imp Reflexes, and Wired 3 and Synaptic Boosters 3 aren't available at chargen due to availability restrictions.

-Frank

I know Wired 3 and Syn Boost 3 aren't available, but why is Force 4 Imp Reflexes not available? I thought you simply cast the damned spell at whatever Force you like once you learn it?
PlatonicPimp
QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Nov 24 2006, 04:27 PM)

That would be a Force 4 Imp Reflexes, and Wired 3 and Synaptic Boosters 3 aren't available at chargen due to availability restrictions.

-Frank


Grammer wise, the comma there mightbe better suited as a semicolon. Nevertheless, the first half of the sentence responds to a previous poster's question, while the second half lets you know that those two specific things are unavailable at chargen. While I can see how you might read it differently, he never actually said that force 4 imp. reflexes was unavailable. It is, as you note, quite doable at character generation.
Ranneko
Remember though, that a F3 sustaining focus is the best you can get at Chargen.
ixombie
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Well, here's the million nuyen question: Does improved ability (hacking) work when you are in full VR?

The question really comes down to this: the rules state that no magic works in the matrix. Does using an adept power count? You use the adept power on yourself, but you are on the matrix: tricky question. It's kinda a GM tossup.

The rules generally state that magic does not work in the matrix, but there is no blanket rule to that effect. The justification is really easy: magic operates on the real world, on physical and spiritual objects. If you try to use magic on VR or AR objects, you'll find that it doesn't work, because the things you're trying to affect aren't really there.

However, physad powers and health spells like improved reflexes work on YOU, not on the matrix. If you're in AR where your physical attributes matter, the fact that your attributes are boosted by magical means is irrelevant. You're enhancing your own reflexes and then using them on the trix, you're not trying to make your magic project into the matrix. In VR, powers that affect you purely physically wouldn't work of course, but that goes without saying. None of your physical attributes matter in VR (except your body and willpower for resisting meatbody damage, where again there's no reason magic wouldn't help). Power that affect your mind, though, are no problem. Your mental powers are enhanced by magic, and then you use your mind to control VR. You're not using magic on the VR, only on yourself.
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