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lorechaser
So here are a couple new negative qualities I'm thinking of introducing (once I manage to actually get people to, you know, show up to the game). Any thoughts on the balance or appropriateness? Or better names? Or better wording?

Human Throwback (10 pts): This quality may only be taken by a metahuman. Choose a starting attribute that has a racial bonus, and reduce that attributes by one. Your augmented maximum for that attribute is now the same as your racial maximum. In certain circumstances, you may suffer a charisma penalty dealing with members of your own metatype.

The intent is that you get a smaller bonus than a normal member of your race, and you can never be as good as a normal member. The 10 pts is conveniently enough to raise another attribute, but since just shuffling felt cheesy, this also penalizes the attribute you weakened. The pseudo-science is a partially expressed UGE - you didn't get the full benefits of your goblinization.


Dain Bramage (15 pts): Whether you used too many BTL's, burned your brain out on Black IC, or just never quite kept up with the kids, you just aren't as quick as the average bear. You take a -1 penalty on all reaction based checks, and can never spend Edge to go first in a round, or gain extra init passes.


I considered a -2 penalty, but then it seemed like no one would ever take it. I also considered 10 points, but again, for 10 points, you basically get -1 reaction, plus other penalties.


Thoughts? Anyone else have neg. quals to share?

Edit:

Here's the current list, stolen from later in the thread.

Page 1:

Human Throwback (10 pts): Penalty to a racial bonus
Dain Bramage (15 pts): Slow to react.
Grandstander (20 pts): Must be the center of attention.
Enemy(Variable): Enemies.
Flashbacks(Variable,5 to 20)
Whore Hound (5 pt): You want to make sexy time?
Groupies (5/10/15/20 pt): Eeek! There he is!
Temper (10 pts): You wouldn't like me when I'm angry.
Glass Jaw (5 pts): Uppercut! He's down!

Page 2:
Haunted(5/10/15/20): Spoooooky ghosts!
Mean as a Rattler (10pts): Kick em when they're up, kick 'em when they're down.
Grim Servant O Death (20pts): And he was the only one that lived...
Big Britches (5pts): Our fearless leader
Gambling Freak (5/10/15/20): Just one more roll....
Distinctive Style(5): It's all retro SR3!
Swimming with Sharks (0 BP): A pound of flesh.
Stepped on Toes (10 BP): You made someone real big real mad.
emo samurai
Grandstander (20 pts)

The grandstander has to make a Willpower + Charisma (4) check to avoid taking center stage whenever there is a lot of people. It is recommended that the grandstander has a lot of charisma.
ElFenrir
I like the Dain Bramage and the Grandstander flaws a lot. Heck, i like all of them.

We used the Enemy negative quality; you gain BP as if you were buying Contacts. If your enemy has Power 3 Motivation 3, for example, youd gain 6 BP. Youd gain a whopping 12 with 6 and 6, but would you want that on your tail? grinbig.gif

Also, the Flashback flaw can be reinstated, at variable points....Composure roll is taken when 'trigger' is encountered. Flaw points are rated on Trigger and Severity, like an allergy....(or could be flat 5 and 10.) Like, Common is 8 points, Uncommon 3. Mild is 2, Moderate is 7, Severe is 12. Either one could work.


Distinctive Style can be reinstated easily as a 5 point Negative quality, with opponents getting +2 dice to remember/notice character. The opposite Positive quality of Blandness can cost 5 and give opposite benefit.

Butterblume
Dain Bramage rotfl.gif. Cool name, reminds me of the munchkin card game.
But I think 15 BP is to much.

For Grandstander, just think what might happen if you hear Surrender, you are surrounded during a run biggrin.gif.
Kyoto Kid
...Dain Bramage would have been a good one for KK 4.1. It actually would have fit with her character story better than Uneducated [Severe Learning Disability] since she was repeatedly beaten by her father.

The original Pre SR4 Kyoto Kid also had Distinctive Style. Man, the fashion police were always on her butt. Gives her better reason to have learned the Facial Sculpt and Melanin Control powers.

GM? You out there?
ChicagosFinest
Grandstander. LOL thats a good one I recomend that to be official. (it totaly describes the way I play my characters)
Grinder
I would love to see some Deadlands-based flaws like
- mean as a rattler
- grim servant o' death
- big britches

There are tons more, but I don't have my Deadlands-books handy, neither do I have the time to think about BP values for it now.
SL James
QUOTE (emo samurai)
Grandstander (20 pts)

The grandstander has to make a Willpower + Charisma (4) check to avoid taking center stage whenever there is a lot of people. It is recommended that the grandstander has a lot of charisma.

Why? You don't.
Eleazar
QUOTE (SL James)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ Nov 28 2006, 08:47 AM)
Grandstander (20 pts)

The grandstander has to make a Willpower + Charisma (4) check to avoid taking center stage whenever there is a lot of people. It is recommended that the grandstander has a lot of charisma.

Why? You don't.

question.gif Where did that come from SL James? That was completely uncalled for, I at least hope you were being facetious, or joking. Or maybe at least you were being so obviously childish for our amusement.
lorechaser
QUOTE (Butterblume)
Dain Bramage rotfl.gif. Cool name, reminds me of the munchkin card game.
But I think 15 BP is to much.

For Grandstander, just think what might happen if you hear Surrender, you are surrounded during a run biggrin.gif.

15 was a tough choice. I could accept it at 10 points, though. But combat paralysis is 20 points.

I also considered: You take a -1 penalty to all reaction rolls, and an additional -1 to all initiative rolls. You may not spend edge to go first or gain extra init passes.

That's a -2 penalty to init, plus you never go faster. Under the combat is special paradigm of SR, that might be more worth 15 points.
lorechaser
QUOTE (Eleazar)
question.gif Where did that come from SL James? That was completely uncalled for, I at least hope you were being facetious, or joking. Or maybe at least you were being so obviously childish for our amusement.

QUOTE (SL James,)
I am an elitist asshole.


Just a guess. wink.gif
ElFenrir
Hmm...perhaps we should catalogue some of these up in this thread. Use it to post any and all of the qualities(Negative AND Positive) that we can. Let's face it, the reason why folks are taking 'Moderate Allergy: Hamsters' 'Incompetent: Badger Wrangling' and 'Ambidexterity' is the lack of qualities overall. When there are only, say, 30 qualities and thousands of characters that get made, of course they are going to have similar qualities.

While there are a lot, i think they should be a broader range. Bring back the Phobias, they could work well. I dunno, but the way the negative qualities are...about 80% of them get complaints for being 'cheap and twinky', and 10% are 'unnecessary'.

BUT, thats all you have to choose from, so people are stuck taking these 'cheap and twinky' qualities because their Technomancer must pull points out of their asses for the Complex Forms(i wont even get into a drone technomancer who must buy vehicle skills.)

So, lets gather up all the qualities! Maybe we can get a good range of them together that wont get accused of being twinky.
Butterblume
And the last 10% are just to crippling, like infirm or gremlins.

I agree that they are not enough flaws.
ElFenrir
Yeah, I mean, Flaws SHOULD be a disadvantage, but there is a difference between 'pain in the ass' 'disadvantage' or 'im now useless'.

I mean, its all well and good to have Situational flaws....in a pirate campaign, Allergy: Seawater is a tough flaw, in Severe cases it could be deadly. But its balanced, the person that takes Severe Allergy to Seawater in a sealubbing campaign is asking for it.

Allergy: Seawater in a campaign that takes place in Kuopio, Finland would be utterly useless.

I think thats one problem...the flaws can be twinky because they are very situational. A balanced flaw in once campaign could be twinky in another, as said above.

What we need are some good, general purpose, flaws(and positive qualities...come on, not EVERY shadowrunner can be ambidexterous ) that are balanced any way you look at them.

Well, i mean, supposedly, based on that, a campaign based around protecting some crazy rich old Hamster Lady who collects them, Allergy: Hamsters would become balanced. grinbig.gif
SL James
QUOTE (Eleazar)
QUOTE (SL James @ Nov 28 2006, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ Nov 28 2006, 08:47 AM)
Grandstander (20 pts)

The grandstander has to make a Willpower + Charisma (4) check to avoid taking center stage whenever there is a lot of people. It is recommended that the grandstander has a lot of charisma.

Why? You don't.

question.gif Where did that come from SL James? That was completely uncalled for, I at least hope you were being facetious, or joking. Or maybe at least you were being so obviously childish for our amusement.

It came from spending the last year of wading through his crap.
ChicagosFinest
Here are some other suggestions:

Whore Hound, Groupies, Temper, Social Retard, Glass Jaw

Just some off the top of my head. If someone could make some BP blueprints and a description to go along with it that would be cool. I can't do it because my boss is paying attention to what I doing for a little bit

BTW SL James.... LOL! I wish I could feel your pain.
lorechaser
Whore Hound, Groupies, Temper, Social Retard, Glass Jaw

Whore Hound (5 pt): Your passions not only rule you, they override your better judgement. You take a -2 penalty on seduction tests and negotiation tests involving your preferred gender, and must make a composure test (3) to avoid pursuing any sort of sexual gratification when it presents itself.

Groupies (5/10/15/20 pt): You are easily recognizable to a certain group. Whether you're a well-known simsense star, a retired Urban Brawl star, or simply have the misfortune to look like the Biff and Buffy love interest of the week, people recognize you, and will actively seek you out, point you out to their friends, etc. This makes it particularly difficult to be subtle. If you take this quality, you may not take Blandness.

The number of points for this flaw depends on the group of people that recognize you.

5 pts: Known to a small niche group (you look like the brother of an actor on a 2nd rate network) or a local area (you are the kid that faced down the Star when they came to arrest Tommy Two Tusks).
10 pts: Known to a reasonbly large group (Your Urban Brawl team never won the Crunch Bowl, but most people can name you as member) or a large area (You are the mayor of Seattle)
15 pts: Known to most of the population ("Hey! Aren't you the 'Can you hear me now' guy?") or to a significant amount of area ("Oh, sure, everyone in the UCAS knows Daniel Boone!")
20 pts: Known to almost everyone on the planet ("Look! Hitler!")

Temper (10 pts): When the going gets tough, you get smashing. Whenever you are insulted, provoked, or wounded, you must make a Willpower + Charisma
Test (3) (wound modifiers apply). If you fail, you must immediately attack your assailant (although non-lethal means are permitted).

Note: The GM is free to request a Temper check whenever he feels it is appropriate. The temper flaw grants the character a point of Notoriety.

Glass Jaw (5 pts): If you take a number of boxes of damage (Stun or Physical) from a single attack that equals or exceeds half your Body (Rounded down), you are automatically knocked down.
ElFenrir
QUOTE
Groupies (5/10/15/20 pt): You are easily recognizable to a certain group. Whether you're a well-known simsense star, a retired Urban Brawl star, or simply have the misfortune to look like the Biff and Buffy love interest of the week, people recognize you, and will actively seek you out, point you out to their friends, etc. This makes it particularly difficult to be subtle. If you take this quality, you may not take Blandness.

The number of points for this flaw depends on the group of people that recognize you.

5 pts: Known to a small niche group (you look like the brother of an actor on a 2nd rate network) or a local area (you are the kid that faced down the Star when they came to arrest Tommy Two Tusks).
10 pts: Known to a reasonbly large group (Your Urban Brawl team never won the Crunch Bowl, but most people can name you as member) or a large area (You are the mayor of Seattle)
15 pts: Known to most of the population ("Hey! Aren't you the 'Can you hear me now' guy?") or to a significant amount of area ("Oh, sure, everyone in the UCAS knows Daniel Boone!")
20 pts: Known to almost everyone on the planet ("Look! Hitler!")


Ahh, that is cool. biggrin.gif Im surprised there hasnt been a 'fame' like flaw like this...it certainly would be appropriate for SR, the main thing of SR having to stay 'under the radar' as much as possible. I think that each flaw could grant different bonuses for the people to find you (+1-4 dice for people to track you.) Among other problems. Groupies would actually be even worse than straight 'Fame'...because while you might be famous, the Groupies are the people that end up finding out where you are and showing up in a big crowd while you are trying to sneak in the back/underground somwehre at the venue to kidnap someone. biggrin.gif
Fortune
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Distinctive Style can be reinstated easily as a 5 point Negative quality, with opponents getting +2 dice to remember/notice character. The opposite Positive quality of Blandness can cost 5 and give opposite benefit.

I believe that Blandness already exists as a 10 BP Quality. wink.gif
emo samurai
QUOTE (SL James @ Nov 28 2006, 11:51 AM)
QUOTE (Eleazar @ Nov 28 2006, 10:50 AM)
QUOTE (SL James @ Nov 28 2006, 11:38 AM)
QUOTE (emo samurai @ Nov 28 2006, 08:47 AM)
Grandstander (20 pts)

The grandstander has to make a Willpower + Charisma (4) check to avoid taking center stage whenever there is a lot of people. It is recommended that the grandstander has a lot of charisma.

Why? You don't.

question.gif Where did that come from SL James? That was completely uncalled for, I at least hope you were being facetious, or joking. Or maybe at least you were being so obviously childish for our amusement.

It came from spending the last year of wading through his crap.

Dude, how many times have you been banned?

And my charisma comes from AWESOME. Not seeing it, you are therefore NOT AWESOME. My former theory that you were a pissed-off blood spirit is wrong, because blood spirits are AWESOME.
ChicagosFinest
QUOTE (lorechaser)
Whore Hound, Groupies, Temper, Social Retard, Glass Jaw

Whore Hound (5 pt): Your passions not only rule you, they override your better judgement. You take a -2 penalty on seduction tests and negotiation tests involving your preferred gender, and must make a composure test (3) to avoid pursuing any sort of sexual gratification when it presents itself.

Groupies (5/10/15/20 pt): You are easily recognizable to a certain group. Whether you're a well-known simsense star, a retired Urban Brawl star, or simply have the misfortune to look like the Biff and Buffy love interest of the week, people recognize you, and will actively seek you out, point you out to their friends, etc. This makes it particularly difficult to be subtle. If you take this quality, you may not take Blandness.

The number of points for this flaw depends on the group of people that recognize you.

5 pts: Known to a small niche group (you look like the brother of an actor on a 2nd rate network) or a local area (you are the kid that faced down the Star when they came to arrest Tommy Two Tusks).
10 pts: Known to a reasonbly large group (Your Urban Brawl team never won the Crunch Bowl, but most people can name you as member) or a large area (You are the mayor of Seattle)
15 pts: Known to most of the population ("Hey! Aren't you the 'Can you hear me now' guy?") or to a significant amount of area ("Oh, sure, everyone in the UCAS knows Daniel Boone!")
20 pts: Known to almost everyone on the planet ("Look! Hitler!")

Temper (10 pts): When the going gets tough, you get smashing. Whenever you are insulted, provoked, or wounded, you must make a Willpower + Charisma
Test (3) (wound modifiers apply). If you fail, you must immediately attack your assailant (although non-lethal means are permitted).

Note: The GM is free to request a Temper check whenever he feels it is appropriate. The temper flaw grants the character a point of Notoriety.

Glass Jaw (5 pts): If you take a number of boxes of damage (Stun or Physical) from a single attack that equals or exceeds half your Body (Rounded down), you are automatically knocked down.

Lorechaser you did me justice!
Jack Kain
I think whore hound would be covered under addiction. In most cases. I don't see a burn out sex addict losing essence then dying out.
Maybe creating its own table for it.


When it comes to allergies remember there is common and uncommon.
During the campaign the guy has a moderate allergy to an uncommon substance. Then they talk with the DM about what would be uncommon. The DM is supposed to approve allergies.

Every runner can actually be ambidextrous, its highly unlikly.
FACT: You don't have to be born ambidextrous, anyone who tells you otherwise is wrong.
You can train yourself to be ambidextrous, A friend of mine trained to be ambidextrous.
Being ambiddextrous is not like being double jointed or having the ability to wiggle your ears.
(It really annoys me when people ask me how they can wiggle there ears like I do)


The groupies quality reminds me of the chick magnet quality from the Tenchu RPG game.
GWCarver
I like these, especialy glass jaw, keep'em coming.
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
Groupies would actually be even worse than straight 'Fame'...because while you might be famous, the Groupies are the people that end up finding out where you are and showing up in a big crowd while you are trying to sneak in the back/underground somwehre at the venue to kidnap someone. biggrin.gif

...they can also get in the way when the lead starts a flyin, becoming collateral statistics.
Digital Heroin
QUOTE (lorechaser @ Nov 28 2006, 07:16 PM)
20 pts: Known to almost everyone on the planet ("Look!  Hitler!")

Lordy that bit had me rolling, and it's a flaw I've thought of several times before, given one of my rolling concepts is an Urban Brawl Rookie of the Year drawn back into the shadows after one of his former associates threatens to reveal that he's an undeclared Adept...

Other flaws which come to mind: Facial Tick, Unexplained Growth, Crumudgeon, and the granddaddy of them all... Tourettes.

I kid too much about the latter at times, but hell, I was misdiagnosed with it, so, yeah.


And as an aside, SL James, a kind word of advice: hate on someone all you like, but unless you've got something to contribute to the thread aside from personal attacks, sod off. You just come off looking like a snivelling punk when you threadjack for flaming.
ElFenrir
QUOTE

I believe that Blandness already exists as a 10 BP Quality. wink.gif



*smacks head*

Doh. Oops. Forgot there biggrin.gif


Hmm...well, if they still have Blandness...(which was in old book), why the hell did they take away Distinctive Style? It was the perfect counteract to it, opposite (Lucky/Unlucky, Spirit Bane/Spirit Knack, etc)....and it wasnt broken at all....5 point Negative to a 10 point Positive.

Like anything, it had to be GMd...your character, 90% of the time, will not want to brush down his triple layered blue mohawk and take off his 1973 Swiss army jacket.

Well, hell, i can always reinstate it into my games. grinbig.gif Problem solved.

I also liked Day Job.

Dependent was a flaw that was quite difficult to monitor. It could go from twinky to crippling, depending on dependent...im glad for that one gone, i could never find a good middle ground for it.

QUOTE

...they can also get in the way when the lead starts a flyin, becoming collateral statistics.


That happens enough, and the character might also find himself with a crapload of new 'enemies.'

Hmm...as for new ones...

Haunted(point value figuring out...variable maybe...5,10,15,20)

Since they say all kinds of spirits hang out in the Astral, and forensic magicians have been known to communicate with them and have the evidence hold up in court, some of these spirits might be pretty well annoying or vindictive to downright destructive. Characters with this Quality have done something to attract one of these wayward folks, and now they are paying for it, one way or another.

5 BP: The spirit is annoying. Occationaly coming out and distracting the character certain times(mild negatives to dice pools), sometimes causing something to fall off the shelf, drink to spill on the girl's shirt in front of him, etc. Sort of like a poltergeist.

10 BP: The spirits a little angry for some reason...perhaps the runner had ended up doing something negligent resulting in this persons removal from the mortal coil. This spirit might try to harm the character occationaly if their in one of the particulary bad moods, but not to kill. Sometimes they act as above, but slightly more often.

15 BP: Here is a spirit thats rather pissed at the character...hosed down in a runners spray of bullets, or the like...this one will probably try to cause harm to this character more often, and the most of the remaining time, cause other problems in their life, be it some sort of evidence planting, etc. Could lead to their capture by dropping something off a roof nearby where the character is hiding, blowing his cover. Still, this one is unlikely to TRY to kill the character, tho something unfourtunate may happen. It doesnt, however, try to mess with the characters teamates.

20 BP: This is a severely vengeful spirit that will most of the time try to harm the character, sometimes outright trying to kill them. This spirit was probably shot face to face by the character himself...and now wants his revenge from beyond the grave. From causing 'accidents' with his vehicle while driving on a dangerous road, to 'accidents' during important runs, this is a dangerous thing to have.

I dunno, it could work, but hopefully not to the huge detriment of the rest of the team. But i think the idea could go somewhere.



emo samurai
Could you go to the spirit's home plane and kill it?
Grinder
QUOTE (lorechaser)
20 pts: Known to almost everyone on the planet ("Look! Hitler!")


rotfl.gif That's great!

Can you try to flesh out my suggested Deadlands-ones? If you're familiar with the flaws, that is.
ElFenrir
QUOTE
Could you go to the spirit's home plane and kill it?


Well, since you can buy off flaws with Karma, i dont see why not, but im sure the GM should make it into a big deal and somehow tie in the Karma buyoff in the process. Getting 20 free points, then going to the home plane in the second adventure might be cheap.

then again, if they reside on the metaplanes...it might just take awhile to do so. Im sure it would be possible, just tough. smile.gif
Lord Ben
QUOTE (Grinder)
I would love to see some Deadlands-based flaws like
- mean as a rattler
- grim servant o' death
- big britches

There are tons more, but I don't have my Deadlands-books handy, neither do I have the time to think about BP values for it now.

Mean as a Rattler (10pts) - Someone must have pissed in your cheerios when you were a kid. When your teammates flexcuff a security guard they tasered you like to kick them a couple times for good measure. Around you interregations always get physical. Charisma+Will (3) to avoid being mean and aggressive even when the situation doesn't call for it. Notoriety 1 with this.

Grim Servant O Death (20pts) - Your teammates seem to wind up dead while you emerge smelling sweet as a rose. When you spend edge to enhance any defensive roll and it's successful the attack is instead directed at a nearby person (PC's preferably, NPC's if alone) who must defend as if it were targetted at them instead. (ignoring called shots). Notoriety 1

Big Britches (5pts) - You were born to be in charge, and it's only right - you ARE the best. Willpower+charisma roll (3) to avoid giving orders and expecting them to be followed when there is conflict over the course of action.
Garrowolf
one quality I thought would be good would be addiction to lifestyles. Characters may want the high life and hate meeting in warehouses and such. It may be the primary reason for Shadowrunning for them. Different levels of medium and high would cost 5 and 10. They would get will rolls to tolerate the bad conditions but will seek out and try to live at their chosen lifestyle as soon as possible.

Gambling addiction. Have the points based on how much you must put at risk each month, similar to a lifestyle cost but allow them to roll their edge to keep some of it.

Konsaki
Neg Qual
Gambling Freak (5/10/15/20)

Each month, just before you pay your lifestyle costs, you must gamble 2000 Nuyen per rank of the quality. (Rank 3 = 6000 Nuyen) The character cannot hold money back if it has it available.
The GM rolls one die to simulate the acts of the character betting the Nuyen either in one sitting or one big game of chance, which ever is better for the story or situation. Check the results table and multiply the Nuyen bet by the percentage listed from the roll. The player cannot spend edge to have this result re-rolled.

6 - 120%
5 - 80%
4 - 60%
3 - 40%
2 - 20%
1 - 0%

If the character fails to bet the full amount required by the negative quality, all dice rolls, except damage resistance and drain, are reduced by 1 die per 2000 not bet. The character suffers this negative modifier until either it bets the full amount or the next bet comes around the following month. (Character bet 2000 out of the 6000 required for Rank 3, character is at a -2 until it completes the requirement.)
Grinder
QUOTE (Lord Ben)
QUOTE (Grinder @ Nov 28 2006, 11:33 AM)
I would love to see some Deadlands-based flaws like
- mean as a rattler
- grim servant o' death
- big britches

There are tons more, but I don't have my Deadlands-books handy, neither do  I have the time to think about BP values for it now.

Mean as a Rattler (10pts) - Someone must have pissed in your cheerios when you were a kid. When your teammates flexcuff a security guard they tasered you like to kick them a couple times for good measure. Around you interregations always get physical. Charisma+Will (3) to avoid being mean and aggressive even when the situation doesn't call for it. Notoriety 1 with this.

Grim Servant O Death (20pts) - Your teammates seem to wind up dead while you emerge smelling sweet as a rose. When you spend edge to enhance any defensive roll and it's successful the attack is instead directed at a nearby person (PC's preferably, NPC's if alone) who must defend as if it were targetted at them instead. (ignoring called shots). Notoriety 1

Big Britches (5pts) - You were born to be in charge, and it's only right - you ARE the best. Willpower+charisma roll (3) to avoid giving orders and expecting them to be followed when there is conflict over the course of action.

Cool, thank you smile.gif
ElFenrir
QUOTE
Gambling Freak (5/10/15/20)

Each month, just before you pay your lifestyle costs, you must gamble 2000 Nuyen per rank of the quality. (Rank 3 = 6000 Nuyen) The character cannot hold money back if it has it available.
The GM rolls one die to simulate the acts of the character betting the Nuyen either in one sitting or one big game of chance, which ever is better for the story or situation. Check the results table and multiply the Nuyen bet by the percentage listed from the roll. The player cannot spend edge to have this result re-rolled.

6 - 120%
5 - 80%
4 - 60%
3 - 40%
2 - 20%
1 - 0%

If the character fails to bet the full amount required by the negative quality, all dice rolls, except damage resistance and drain, are reduced by 1 die per 2000 not bet. The character suffers this negative modifier until either it bets the full amount or the next bet comes around the following month. (Character bet 2000 out of the 6000 required for Rank 3, character is at a -2 until it completes the requirement.)


Hmm...this could be interesting. The chart is there to give it a payment ONCE in awhile...but this is one the character can suffer from. Especially every month. If these guys have a high or even mid lifestyle i can see it being a big problem. While it has the ability to be a touch positive,(like Day Job, which gave you a bit of money each week), this is negative enough...i kind of like this.

QUOTE
Big Britches (5pts) - You were born to be in charge, and it's only right - you ARE the best. Willpower+charisma roll (3) to avoid giving orders and expecting them to be followed when there is conflict over the course of action.


biggrin.gif I'd like to see someone with Big Britches and Incompetence: Leadership.
lorechaser
QUOTE (ElFenrir)
QUOTE
Gambling Freak (5/10/15/20)

Each month, just before you pay your lifestyle costs, you must gamble 2000 Nuyen per rank of the quality. (Rank 3 = 6000 Nuyen) The character cannot hold money back if it has it available.
The GM rolls one die to simulate the acts of the character betting the Nuyen either in one sitting or one big game of chance, which ever is better for the story or situation. Check the results table and multiply the Nuyen bet by the percentage listed from the roll. The player cannot spend edge to have this result re-rolled.

6 - 120%
5 - 80%
4 - 60%
3 - 40%
2 - 20%
1 - 0%

If the character fails to bet the full amount required by the negative quality, all dice rolls, except damage resistance and drain, are reduced by 1 die per 2000 not bet. The character suffers this negative modifier until either it bets the full amount or the next bet comes around the following month. (Character bet 2000 out of the 6000 required for Rank 3, character is at a -2 until it completes the requirement.)

My problem with this is conceptual, though.

There's no provision included for skill. The greenest poker player and a world champion would each lose the same amount gambling each month.

If this were an official flaw, I can guarentee you there would be 10 page threads titled "No skill applies to gambling freak?!"

wink.gif

Course the flip side of that is a character with gambling skill would use it during real time, this is just an upkeep roll.

So I'd add flavor reading something like "You can't resist a bet, whether it's which sugar cube a fly will land on or a game of high stakes poker with an obviously marked deck. While you certain gamble via traditional methods, you also make bets that you know you can't win, just for the adrenaline rush."

Also as a picky point - you change the wording from "You" at the beginning to "the character" at the end. wink.gif And you should never use "it" in these situations - just pick a gendered pronoun, and stick with it through the entire example.
Wakshaani
Distinctive Style (5 BP)

You just can't help it. Stay low, stay quiet, stay normal? Null that! You gotta be you, baby! Even in the larger-than-life underbelly, there's something about you that always sticks out, or gets stuck out, making you pretty well known. This can be good, this can be bad. The distinction can be something you can hide if you choose, such as gang or Yakuza tatoos, always wearing a Seattle Seahawks jersey no matter where you go, or being "That guy that always clicks his lighter open and closed all day." Whatever it is, people notice it and can use it to track you down. A character can try to hide this on occasion with an Intuition + Willpower (3) roll, but the GM can require it to be bought off or refuse RP Karma bonuses if this becomes commonplace.

Distinctive Style gives anyone searching for you, physically or socially, a +2 dice modifier. Characters with Blandness cannot take Distinctive Style.

Distinctive Style results in +1 Notoriety.

Swimming with Sharks (0 BP)

Swimming with Sharks is a bit different than a typical negative quality. You've taken out a loan with someone or some organization and now you owe 'em, two for one. You may take out from one to ten markers of 5000Y each, but, it costs 10,000Y to buy a marker off. Most Sharks require one marker to be paid off every three months. If a marker due date is missed, treat it as if missing a lifestyle payment... if the check is passed, the character was able to pawn off enough stuff to cover it for now, but a failure can have dire consequences indeed.

Unlike a normal negative quality, Swimming with Sharks may not be bought off with Karma, but may (And in fact must!) be paid off in Nuyen. Swimming with Sharks may also be gained in play with great ease.

Stepped on Toes (10 BP)

A character who Stepped on Toes chooses a GM-approved organization, be it a megacorporation, a crime syndicate, or other organization (Such as Lone Star or the IRS) that he's gotten good and mad. Treat all interactions with this group as if the character had Spirit Bane and they were the Spirit type in question... they live to frag with the poor slot who stepped on their toes. Maybe you knocked up the Don's daughter, maybe you insulted the Obyan's honor, maybe you're a cop-killer, or maybe Ares knows about you and that one time with the thing and needs to make an example. Whatever it is, chummer, you've Stepped on Toes.

Stepped on Toes results in +1 Notoriety.
lorechaser
I told them that the guy wasn't really there, it was the other thing!

Stupid Ares.
Lord Ben
Another version of stepped on toes could be Vengeful. Pick a corp or organization that wronged you. Shot up your buddy, didn't pay you on a run, etc. Make some type of roll to avoid taking revenge on them when you get the opportunity.
ElFenrir
Ok, so far, we have listed....(im just cataloging every couple pages)...that way if they are wanted to be used by people, they can look em up, and see if they fit their game...or if they could use improvements, etc.

Page 1:

Human Throwback (10 pts)
Dain Bramage (15 pts)
Grandstander (20 pts)
Enemy(Variable)
Flashbacks(Variable,5 to 20)
Whore Hound (5 pt)
Groupies (5/10/15/20 pt)
Temper (10 pts)
Glass Jaw (5 pts)

Page 2:
Haunted(5/10/15/20)
Mean as a Rattler (10pts)
Grim Servant O Death (20pts)
Big Britches (5pts)
Gambling Freak (5/10/15/20)
Distinctive Style(5)
Swimming with Sharks (0 BP)
Stepped on Toes (10 BP)
lorechaser
Indeed. I'm going to go back and make comments on a few, but I'd really like to see these get ripped apart until at least the majority of the people reading would be okay allowing them in their games....
ElFenrir
Well, im leaving soon to a show, but when i come back i might have had enough, errm, mana in me to comment on a few grinbig.gif


One Flaw comment i always have...some of the 'someone/thing gunning for character' flaws can be difficult to balance at times i think...because just because ONE character took a flaw, doesnt mean the whole party should be screwed. And some of those high level type of flaws can result in that.

Now, of course, sometimes Gms like to pull 'well, you adventure withh this guy...i can make bad stuff dissapear with you if you turn him in....' etc. But sometimes it runs into trouble...but it could be balanced out with some work.
hyzmarca
Not original, but they forgot to port this one over from SR3 so I'll give it a shot.

Borrowed Time -10BP
A character with this flaw suffers from a terminal condition of some sort, which could be natural, technological, mystical, or something else entirely.
At any time, the GM may simply declare that your character dead due to this condition.
The point value of this flaw comes solely from the fact that the player implicitly waves the right to complain about asinine GM fiat deaths, since the GM can always fiat deaths, anyway.
Jaid
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
Stepped on Toes (10 BP)

[...]

Maybe you knocked up the Don's daughter, maybe you insulted the Obyan's honor...

or maybe you just spelled his official title wrong wink.gif
Wakshaani
QUOTE (Jaid)
QUOTE (Wakshaani @ Nov 29 2006, 11:52 AM)
Stepped on Toes (10 BP)

[...]

Maybe you knocked up the Don's daughter, maybe you insulted the Obyan's honor...

or maybe you just spelled his official title wrong wink.gif

With the week I'm having, you're lucky I didn't spell it "Ob-Gyn" at this point. biggrin.gif
PlatonicPimp
I've always run enemies as contacts with a negative loyalty score, called an emnity rating. The emnity rating goes from 1 to 6, like loyalty, but represents how far the enemy will go to get at your character. Enemies have a connections rating just like contacts do, representing the same thing.

The enemy gives you back a number of points equal to the emnity rating plus the connections rating.

Or in my game it's multiplied, because that's a common house rule I like.

Anyway, the contacts rules can simply be expanded to cover enemies too with little work and a great payoff.
warrior_allanon
ooh i like that double P, very very cool idea
PlatonicPimp
Thank you. Never call me that again.
Wakshaani
QUOTE (PlatonicPimp)
Thank you. Never call me that again.

No problem, PeePee!
Garrowolf
Well I like the idea of the edge trait being the only thing that you roll. In each case you would be rolling a gambling skill but even if you win you are likely to spend that too. It all goes back to how addicted you are and how lucky you are.

According to that movie "Two for the money" it is more of a thrill for the gambler to loose then to win anyway.

You might end up with a extra money every once in a while. This could either be the result of critical success of some sort or you could assume that their lifestyle jumps briefly as they party hard.

I had a game where the street sammie had a gambling problem and his bookie was an additional fixer as he had to do extra jobs to work off his debts he kept on gaining!
Grinder
Today we decided to start a SR4 campaign finally, so I'm looking for more flaws'n'edges (hence the thread necromancy). I have just checked my beloved Deadlands rulebook and would like to throw these in the mix:

- All Thumbs: you're just not good at B/R skills
- Bloodthirsty: you don't like to make prisoners
- Curious: it can kill the cat...
- Pacifist: well, a classic.
- Heroic: you can't turn down a plea for help
- Loco: you have a mental "illness".
- Poverty: you can't get it with money.

- Brave: mabye gives you bonus Edge?
- Mechanically inclined: you have knack for working with machines & tech
- The Stare & The Voice

I'm not good in giving BP values to these stuff (and it's really late here), so I just post this suggestions and hope that someone will work on them. smile.gif
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