Full Version: Scourge in the 6th world.
So I was wondering what's gonna happen when the horrors come this time. It would seem that metahumanity has better chances this time, at least if those damn immortals would warn them. But could the horrors somehow enter the matrix? If they can corrupt your mind, couldn't they enter the matrix that way? And how about space? With a couple of thousand years of time, I think it wouldn't be too hard for metahumanity to seek refuge in the stars, but, could the horrors somehow exit the manasphere?
About the only clear answer: The horrors can´t leave the manasphere. If they want to leave earth the physical way, they need to take the manasphere with them.
Else: Different games, so hard to say. Without stronger magic on the metahuman side, they´ll win. But the mana is just starting to flow.
Else: Different games, so hard to say. Without stronger magic on the metahuman side, they´ll win. But the mana is just starting to flow.
The horrors are going to get their asses royally handed to them.
Magic power is essentially a lottery where every child born gets a ticket. More people means more tickets. More tickets means more winners. The world population at the time of the Scourge last time around was about 6.5 million. Scourge 2.0 is looking down the barrel of a world pop that is over 6.5 billion.
That means that the magical armies on the side of humanity are going to be one thousand times as large! And they are going to be backed up with lasers, and nuclear bombs, and orbital weapons platforms, and so on and so forth.
Furthermore, this time around the forces of humanity are coming in prepared, and with more allies than they ever had. As soon as horrors come into the picture, the Invae have shown that they are willing to team up with humanity to beat the Scourge.
By the time it arrives, Verjigorm will be a minor social problem whose destruction will get on page 6 of the newsfeeds in continents other than the one he appeared in.
When Scabiel the Maker of Ruins arises, he will be smashed before a tenday has run its course.
-Frank
Magic power is essentially a lottery where every child born gets a ticket. More people means more tickets. More tickets means more winners. The world population at the time of the Scourge last time around was about 6.5 million. Scourge 2.0 is looking down the barrel of a world pop that is over 6.5 billion.
That means that the magical armies on the side of humanity are going to be one thousand times as large! And they are going to be backed up with lasers, and nuclear bombs, and orbital weapons platforms, and so on and so forth.
Furthermore, this time around the forces of humanity are coming in prepared, and with more allies than they ever had. As soon as horrors come into the picture, the Invae have shown that they are willing to team up with humanity to beat the Scourge.
By the time it arrives, Verjigorm will be a minor social problem whose destruction will get on page 6 of the newsfeeds in continents other than the one he appeared in.
When Scabiel the Maker of Ruins arises, he will be smashed before a tenday has run its course.
-Frank
While I doubt it'll be near that easy, humanity does have a rather massive advantage via technology and numbers compared to the last round. However theres one catch; metahumanity has to stay in one piece long enough to fight the Horrors. My guess is they have maybe a thousand years to do so. Thats a long time and alot could happen, and the Scourge has agents that are insanely crafty (literally) and subtle. Not to mention the constant environmental damage that has the potential to reduce said population to crippling numbers instead.
In the end, its a test of cohesion and endurance.
In the end, its a test of cohesion and endurance.
The smarter horrors would figure out pretty quickly that a frontal assault on Metahumanity would be suicidal. Some would work behind the scenes and cause strife by making Metahumanity war with itself.
Go Metahumans Go!
| QUOTE (Smed) |
| The smarter horrors would figure out pretty quickly that a frontal assault on Metahumanity would be suicidal. Some would work behind the scenes and cause strife by making Metahumanity war with itself. |
Absolutely. The problem is that the big ones like Ristul don't have any choice. Their presence is visible until blocked by the curvature of the Earth and they will get drawn into a full frontal with humanity it will turn out badly for them.
The smaller horrors, however, can fade away into crime statistics. Wraiths and Falsemen will probably wander cities and rural areas cacking people for centuries. Maybe forever. It's a Scourge of Scourges - where all the major horrors will go down in a blaze of glory and the minor horrors will plot an uprising that will doubtless gain traction in some places.
Some cities will be razed, but the hands will be of minor horrors who stole biological weapons not major horrors who crushed the cities beneath an astral claw.
-Frank
The question was not "can we beat the horrors?".
We had that discussion long ago.
We had that discussion long ago.
Bah! 
We need both a new Horrors thread, and since it's only a little early for New Years, this one will do.
Horrors Drool!
We need both a new Horrors thread, and since it's only a little early for New Years, this one will do.
Horrors Drool!
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman @ Nov 30 2006, 12:39 PM) |
| The horrors are going to get their asses royally handed to them. Magic power is essentially a lottery where every child born gets a ticket. More people means more tickets. More tickets means more winners. The world population at the time of the Scourge last time around was about 6.5 million. Scourge 2.0 is looking down the barrel of a world pop that is over 6.5 billion. That means that the magical armies on the side of humanity are going to be one thousand times as large! And they are going to be backed up with lasers, and nuclear bombs, and orbital weapons platforms, and so on and so forth. Furthermore, this time around the forces of humanity are coming in prepared, and with more allies than they ever had. As soon as horrors come into the picture, the Invae have shown that they are willing to team up with humanity to beat the Scourge. By the time it arrives, Verjigorm will be a minor social problem whose destruction will get on page 6 of the newsfeeds in continents other than the one he appeared in. When Scabiel the Maker of Ruins arises, he will be smashed before a tenday has run its course. -Frank |
That assumes a co-ordinated humanity. But look how the British empire was built, piecemeal alliances and betrayals. I understand that these Horrors are intelligent? I think you would see a very clear divide and conquer strategy.
And even if mankind is united in terms of nation with nation, are they united socio-economically? You look at the world of 2070 and you see a ruling class of very wealthy and a sprawling underclass of SINless and workers that are indentured in all but name. Suppose the horrors start formenting revolution? Or maybe they simply side with the ruling elite? After all, as you point out, there are 6 billion people this time (and more by by the next scourge, perhaps), so that's more people to munch on and perhaps the ruling elite will save themselves an expensive war by tossing some of the disenfranchised the horror's way, because those people are always a nuisance anyway.
And I may be wrong with this, but don't the horrors start appearing gradually, with smaller ones like Wraiths coming across to begin with. I don't know what the big horrors are like, but the rules for Shadow Spirits provide for some pretty ugly scenarios. I would envision the coming of the horrors to be preceded by increasing unrest, violence, fear and division as the lesser ones start making their presence felt.
I'm not saying that you're wrong in your position, but I'm showing how easily a GM can represent it differently and I think my take is plausible. Unless human nature has changed radically, and Shadowrun history suggests it has not, then there will be plenty of people ready to sell their neighbours down the river, to standby and let others suffer, to take advantage of another groups distraction, to split along lines of race, religion or wealth. Humanity may be stocked to the gills with weaponry when the horrors arrive, but on a divided, overcrowded Earth, that isn't going to help if the horrors turn mankind on itself.
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| The smaller horrors, however, can fade away into crime statistics. Wraiths and Falsemen will probably wander cities and rural areas cacking people for centuries. Maybe forever. It's a Scourge of Scourges - where all the major horrors will go down in a blaze of glory and the minor horrors will plot an uprising that will doubtless gain traction in some places. |
Sounds plausible. Mankind will probably unite against an overpowering foe, while lesser ones get away.
And, like they say, hell is other people. Who needs horrors?
| QUOTE (MITJA3000+) |
| So I was wondering what's gonna happen when the horrors come this time. It would seem that metahumanity has better chances this time, at least if those damn immortals would warn them. But could the horrors somehow enter the matrix? If they can corrupt your mind, couldn't they enter the matrix that way? And how about space? With a couple of thousand years of time, I think it wouldn't be too hard for metahumanity to seek refuge in the stars, but, could the horrors somehow exit the manasphere? |
It occurs to me that humanity might escape into space. Or at least the most able portions of it which would leave the rest to survive on a defenceless Earth. But the horrors make their way to Earth when the mana level is sufficiently high to open the way / support them. As the exodites spread and grow, gradually forgetting what they fled, their manaspheres grow in size and richness. A glorious civilisation progressing ever onwards... to the point at which the ancient evil can enter their world and destroy them. Sounds like the plot of every other sci-fi movie, but it fits cannon, I think.
Yeah Frank's right, because after all with all the raw magical power metahumanity has, no horror could possibly hope to taint or mark us...oh wait. Huh there are rules for raw magic use and horrors in Earthdawn? Huh. Well what do you know?
The magicians in the 4th Age developed matrices to channel the magic and save themselves of the consequences that raw magic has.
| QUOTE (Grinder) |
| The magicians in the 4th Age developed matrices to channel the magic and save themselves of the consequences that raw magic has. |
i think that's his point... the 6th world does not (generally) have that... which could be problematic
although, otoh, there are certain metamagics which do something similar.
There's a couple of years yet for metahumanity to (re)develop them, and more. And there is a being or three that has direct knowledge about all those magical things that require the mana level to be just a touch higher.
Invae??
Whats books can I find reffences from?
Whats books can I find reffences from?
Invae = Bugs. 
Spell Matrices weren't perfect. Any magic use opens you up to a horror mark form the nastier and subtler ones, such as Taint.
The big problem with fighting the Horrors is metaplaner shortcuts. It is a trick that any being which originates on the metaplanes can use when on our world, and a very useful one. In order to defend against Horror incursion you need 4-dimensional wards such as those created by the Rites of Passage and Protection. Without warding against metaplaner incursion they can pop in at any time. The problem is that, the way wards work, you'd have to have something like a Kaer. You can't just ward the entire planet.
Now, within Arcologies that have been warded by the Rites of Passage and Protection you are pretty much safe. The chances of a single horror breaking though are minimal. But, and this is the big problem, in order to attack the horrors you'll have to go outside. In order to go outside you have to open the door. If you open the door then things can get in. Kaers were completely sealed for a reason.
The second problem is probably worse, sheer numbers. No one knows how mnay Horrors ravage the land during the peak of the Scourge, save for Chantrel, who lived through it due to the protection of her Eternal Friend, and the Horrors themselves. However, it isn't unreasonable to assume billions of Horrors cross over at this time, perhaps even trillions and you'll probably get into the quadrillions and quintillions if you start counting the individual Dread Iotas.
When your 10-magician horror hunting party gets ambushed by 100s Gnashers who took advantage of the metaplanes to surround you completely, you've got a problem.
The Named Horrors have never been the problem. The biggest baddest Horrors are subtle, take very few victims, and work alone. A small party of adepts decently skilled adepts can take down a solitary Named Horror. This is one of the reasons why the Named rarely stay and fight once exposed. The real problem is the Unnamed.
But this isn't because they'll just kill a few people in the barrens and avoid notice. No, it is the Named that will avoid notice. The unnamed will instead overwhelm with sheer numbers.
Just think about it.
Aazhvat drives individuals insane with pseudo-illusions, one at a time. It isn't into the giant acts of violence.
Artificer builds trap mazes. That'll destroy a city
Bonecrown is a consumate politian who cultivates the love of the masses and uses their loyalty to fuel his power Heck, he's probably Angela Colloton.
Chantrel's Eternal Friend picks one person to grant immortality and kills all of that individual's friends and family. Its a nice plot for a horror movie but not exactly earthshattering.
Despairthought convinces neglectful parents to sacrifice their children.
Druistdadt targets entire riverboats full of Tskrang sailors. Yeah, Tskrang riverboats are very important to the Sixth World's economy.
Fla Tra Lys gives undead servants to whoever plays its pipes. If you like good music then he's evil incarnate. Otherwise, it ain't really dangerous.
Giftbringer sells crap. Selling crap is the only thing that he does. This does lead to the destruction of entire communities, but only because he is a blatent rip-off of Leland Gaunt from Needful Things.
Hate sows distrust amongst groups by attacking some and leaving others unharmed. Dangerous, but not major at all.
The Hunter of Hunters eats other horrors.
Joie turns people into masochists, causing them to revel in their own suffering as if it were the greatest of joys. There are enough S&M clubs in the sixth world that this is unlikely to turn heads.
Nebis gets killed alot. That's what he does. He gets himself killed. He marks whoever kills them and manipulates them into doing random violent crap until he can steal their body parts. This isn't a very big deal on a global scale.
Nemesis is a goddamn capitalist. Like Giftbringer, he buys and sells; but his goods don't inspire havoc and they're actually worth more than what he sells them for. As a political lobbyist, he's primarily a "tough on crime" guy who believes in high taxes and metahuman slavery. He'd right at home in the Sixth World if he'd rethink the tax issue. If he doesn't already own a megacorp he probably will in the future.
Ristul can't be killed any more than you can kill all of the water in the world. He doesn't exactly act much, either. The Rift is a big exception to this, but he seems content to spread himself slowly.
Taint corrupts magicians. If you aren't a magician then it is not a big deal.
Tempter corrupts well-meaning adventurers by offering them the power to do good. If you aren't a well-meaning adventurer then it isn't a big deal.
Ubyr, okay, Ubyr essences drains entire cities at once. He's a giant destructive essence leach. I'll give you that one.
Verjigorm hunts dragons. Terrible, if you are a dragon.
Ysrthgranthe abuses Aina. Terrible, if you are Aina.
But, just look at the Unamed
Baggi eat people. That's all they do. They eat people whole.
Crystaline entities Possess homes, garages, and toolsheds and then makes people inside grow spikes if it doesn't kill them outright with spells.
Dread Iotas are bacterium or viruses. But worse, each and every one of them is sentient and capible of using magic. They exist to infect as many people as is possible and they will communicate with their victims and manipulate them in order to propagate the infection.
Gnashers eat and jump. Those are the only two things they do. They don't even poop. They are truly omnivorous and their appetites are insatiable. They eat anything and everything untill they were full, which is never. Enough Gnashers could eat the entire planet.
Kreescra Give people nightmares and prevent the healing of wounds.
Mindslugs crawl into people's skulls while they sleep and feed of of their brains.
Slipshades are harmless unless you trespass onto their territory.
Wingflayers are flying clouds of razor-sharp splinters. They shred any living being in their path.
Wormskulls, I'm not sure what they do.
The unmaned are generally all much more obvious and, more impotantly, they cause more destruction due to their sheer numbers. Gnashers can eat entire cities and without 4d wards there is no way to prevent them from infiltrating a city. Likewise, there is no way to prevent a Crystaline entiry from possessing your home and killing you in the most painful way possible without a 4d ward. Dread Iotas can potentially infect and kill millions, if not billions. They'll make VITAS look like a freaking rhinovirus.
The big problem with fighting the Horrors is metaplaner shortcuts. It is a trick that any being which originates on the metaplanes can use when on our world, and a very useful one. In order to defend against Horror incursion you need 4-dimensional wards such as those created by the Rites of Passage and Protection. Without warding against metaplaner incursion they can pop in at any time. The problem is that, the way wards work, you'd have to have something like a Kaer. You can't just ward the entire planet.
Now, within Arcologies that have been warded by the Rites of Passage and Protection you are pretty much safe. The chances of a single horror breaking though are minimal. But, and this is the big problem, in order to attack the horrors you'll have to go outside. In order to go outside you have to open the door. If you open the door then things can get in. Kaers were completely sealed for a reason.
The second problem is probably worse, sheer numbers. No one knows how mnay Horrors ravage the land during the peak of the Scourge, save for Chantrel, who lived through it due to the protection of her Eternal Friend, and the Horrors themselves. However, it isn't unreasonable to assume billions of Horrors cross over at this time, perhaps even trillions and you'll probably get into the quadrillions and quintillions if you start counting the individual Dread Iotas.
When your 10-magician horror hunting party gets ambushed by 100s Gnashers who took advantage of the metaplanes to surround you completely, you've got a problem.
The Named Horrors have never been the problem. The biggest baddest Horrors are subtle, take very few victims, and work alone. A small party of adepts decently skilled adepts can take down a solitary Named Horror. This is one of the reasons why the Named rarely stay and fight once exposed. The real problem is the Unnamed.
But this isn't because they'll just kill a few people in the barrens and avoid notice. No, it is the Named that will avoid notice. The unnamed will instead overwhelm with sheer numbers.
Just think about it.
Aazhvat drives individuals insane with pseudo-illusions, one at a time. It isn't into the giant acts of violence.
Artificer builds trap mazes. That'll destroy a city
Bonecrown is a consumate politian who cultivates the love of the masses and uses their loyalty to fuel his power Heck, he's probably Angela Colloton.
Chantrel's Eternal Friend picks one person to grant immortality and kills all of that individual's friends and family. Its a nice plot for a horror movie but not exactly earthshattering.
Despairthought convinces neglectful parents to sacrifice their children.
Druistdadt targets entire riverboats full of Tskrang sailors. Yeah, Tskrang riverboats are very important to the Sixth World's economy.
Fla Tra Lys gives undead servants to whoever plays its pipes.
If you like good music then he's evil incarnate. Otherwise, it ain't really dangerous.Giftbringer sells crap. Selling crap is the only thing that he does. This does lead to the destruction of entire communities, but only because he is a blatent rip-off of Leland Gaunt from Needful Things.
Hate sows distrust amongst groups by attacking some and leaving others unharmed. Dangerous, but not major at all.
The Hunter of Hunters eats other horrors.
Joie turns people into masochists, causing them to revel in their own suffering as if it were the greatest of joys. There are enough S&M clubs in the sixth world that this is unlikely to turn heads.
Nebis gets killed alot. That's what he does. He gets himself killed. He marks whoever kills them and manipulates them into doing random violent crap until he can steal their body parts. This isn't a very big deal on a global scale.
Nemesis is a goddamn capitalist. Like Giftbringer, he buys and sells; but his goods don't inspire havoc and they're actually worth more than what he sells them for. As a political lobbyist, he's primarily a "tough on crime" guy who believes in high taxes and metahuman slavery. He'd right at home in the Sixth World if he'd rethink the tax issue. If he doesn't already own a megacorp he probably will in the future.
Ristul can't be killed any more than you can kill all of the water in the world. He doesn't exactly act much, either. The Rift is a big exception to this, but he seems content to spread himself slowly.
Taint corrupts magicians. If you aren't a magician then it is not a big deal.
Tempter corrupts well-meaning adventurers by offering them the power to do good. If you aren't a well-meaning adventurer then it isn't a big deal.
Ubyr, okay, Ubyr essences drains entire cities at once. He's a giant destructive essence leach. I'll give you that one.
Verjigorm hunts dragons. Terrible, if you are a dragon.
Ysrthgranthe abuses Aina. Terrible, if you are Aina.
But, just look at the Unamed
Baggi eat people. That's all they do. They eat people whole.
Crystaline entities Possess homes, garages, and toolsheds and then makes people inside grow spikes if it doesn't kill them outright with spells.
Dread Iotas are bacterium or viruses. But worse, each and every one of them is sentient and capible of using magic. They exist to infect as many people as is possible and they will communicate with their victims and manipulate them in order to propagate the infection.
Gnashers eat and jump. Those are the only two things they do. They don't even poop. They are truly omnivorous and their appetites are insatiable. They eat anything and everything untill they were full, which is never. Enough Gnashers could eat the entire planet.
Kreescra Give people nightmares and prevent the healing of wounds.
Mindslugs crawl into people's skulls while they sleep and feed of of their brains.
Slipshades are harmless unless you trespass onto their territory.
Wingflayers are flying clouds of razor-sharp splinters. They shred any living being in their path.
Wormskulls, I'm not sure what they do.
The unmaned are generally all much more obvious and, more impotantly, they cause more destruction due to their sheer numbers. Gnashers can eat entire cities and without 4d wards there is no way to prevent them from infiltrating a city. Likewise, there is no way to prevent a Crystaline entiry from possessing your home and killing you in the most painful way possible without a 4d ward. Dread Iotas can potentially infect and kill millions, if not billions. They'll make VITAS look like a freaking rhinovirus.
| QUOTE |
| The problem is that, the way wards work, you'd have to have something like a Kaer. You can't just ward the entire planet. |
Correction: in the Fourth Age, you couldn't just Ward the entire planet. Now we have geosynchronous sattelites which can hold little pieces of paper and you can ward the entire planet. Thing is... noone sees any reason to do that... yet.
-Frank
Would the villain Talon from the sega genesis shadowrun be counted as one of the horrors?
Well, if we applied the Rites of Passage and Protection to the entire planet it would prevent more Invae from crossing over and spirit summoning, in general. But a horror could just materialize in outerspace and smash up the satellites. All it needs is some astral armor or a purely physical presence
hmmm... wasn't demonseed elite talking about how you were supposed to be able to ward vehicles?
so 4-D ward a few tanks, install mage goggles, and go to town nuking the crap out of everything!
(or of course, you could just pull an Ares, nuke everything, and release swarms of magic-eating bacteria all over the place. I'm sure FAB III loves horrors )
so 4-D ward a few tanks, install mage goggles, and go to town nuking the crap out of everything!
(or of course, you could just pull an Ares, nuke everything, and release swarms of magic-eating bacteria all over the place. I'm sure FAB III loves horrors
)
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Well, if we applied the Rites of Passage and Protection to the entire planet it would prevent more Invae from crossing over and spirit summoning, in general. But a horror could just materialize in outerspace and smash up the satellites. All it needs is some astral armor or a purely physical presence |
I don't think they can actually. Horrors need a higher than normal amount of mana to arrive at all. So while I'm sure that many a horror could survive at least brief exposure to the mana ebbs - they can't appear in one. No bridge as it were.
As to shutting off all conjuring, that really depends upon what kind of ward they made. There are wards that are permeable to certain directions or types of trespassers.
The Sattelite Horror Defense (SHD) is really looking extremely plausible from where I'm standing. Well within Shadowrun Magitechnical capability.
-Frank
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Nov 30 2006, 09:11 PM) |
| hmmm... wasn't demonseed elite talking about how you were supposed to be able to ward vehicles? so 4-D ward a few tanks, install mage goggles, and go to town nuking the crap out of everything! (or of course, you could just pull an Ares, nuke everything, and release swarms of magic-eating bacteria all over the place. I'm sure FAB III loves horrors ) |
What about capturing weaker horrors infecting them with FABIII then sending them home.
Use those 4-D wards in a prison sense.
Nah, FAB is easy to kill w/ magic and a lot of stronger horros have magic. That and no one really knows precisely where they come from ('cept Dunkie apparetnyl, since he has a godo view )
)
Go Metahumans!
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| The horrors are going to get their asses royally handed to them. |
As Paul noted, you're forgeting that with Ristul corrupting the astral, those magical armies will be burning and dying from their own physical drain, or their adept powers will be useless due to the high mana warps/voids such corruption would cause. And Ristul cannot be touched or beaten - matrixes are one way around him as Grinder noted, but even that solution is limited. But hyzmarca said it better
| QUOTE (knasser) |
| It occurs to me that humanity might escape into space. Or at least the most able portions of it which would leave the rest to survive on a defenceless Earth. But the horrors make their way to Earth when the mana level is sufficiently high to open the way / support them. As the exodites spread and grow, gradually forgetting what they fled, their manaspheres grow in size and richness. A glorious civilisation progressing ever onwards... to the point at which the ancient evil can enter their world and destroy them. Sounds like the plot of every other sci-fi movie, but it fits cannon, I think. |
Sounds like the makings of the 7th world - aka Battletech
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| Correction: in the Fourth Age, you couldn't just Ward the entire planet. Now we have geosynchronous sattelites which can hold little pieces of paper and you can ward the entire planet. Thing is... noone sees any reason to do that... yet. |
Wouldn't work - mana void would kill the effect or weaken it to the point of uselessness. Plus, there are size limits on wards, as you know.
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| I'm sure FAB III loves horrors ) |
Until it gets corrupted, possibly by those dread iotas. Essence draining sentient FAB anyone?
The other big assumption here is that the Horrors will be relatively unchanged when/if they ever arrive on Earth again. The Horrors are not hibernating for thousands of years between Earth's mana cycles. They are just unable to make the journey to Earth and sustain their presence once they arrive.
In the meantime, however, there is no telling what they are up to. They are certainly active, as we've seen a few up to no good on Earth here and there. Technology might not be a surprise to the Horrors when they arrive. They may have already developed ways to deal with it. Some may have found ways to take advantage of technology to sustain themselves, much like earlier Horrors took advantage of magical, social, or economical conditions to feed themselves in their own special ways.
EDIT: I'm half-expecting people to start interpreting FanPro's new DeGenesis game as a post-Horrors future, even though it wasn't really developed that way. But I can certainly see where people could get the idea from, since it's a post-apocalyptic Earth setting with some supernatural overtones.
In the meantime, however, there is no telling what they are up to. They are certainly active, as we've seen a few up to no good on Earth here and there. Technology might not be a surprise to the Horrors when they arrive. They may have already developed ways to deal with it. Some may have found ways to take advantage of technology to sustain themselves, much like earlier Horrors took advantage of magical, social, or economical conditions to feed themselves in their own special ways.
EDIT: I'm half-expecting people to start interpreting FanPro's new DeGenesis game as a post-Horrors future, even though it wasn't really developed that way. But I can certainly see where people could get the idea from, since it's a post-apocalyptic Earth setting with some supernatural overtones.
| QUOTE (NightmareX) | ||
Wouldn't work - mana void would kill the effect or weaken it to the point of uselessness. Plus, there are size limits on wards, as you know. |
Warding the entire planet only requires a character with a magic rating of 21664140000000 according to the rules, a little over twenty-one trillion. It is extreme but you can do it with a Blood Spirit. And once you have your Force 21664140000012 Blood Spirit you might as well have it make a ward with a force in the low millions, at those scales you can pretty much ignore the mana warp. You can make a ward with a force of 1000000 in only 114.16 centuries.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| Warding the entire planet only requires a character with a magic rating of 21664140000000 according to the rules, a little over twenty-one trillion. It is extreme but you can do it with a Blood Spirit. And once you have your Force 21664140000012 Blood Spirit you might as well have it make a ward with a force in the low millions, at those scales you can pretty much ignore the mana warp. You can make a ward with a force of 1000000 in only 114.16 centuries. |
Good luck getting that blood spirit - strike that, Blood God - to Force 21664140000012 anytime soon and keeping control of the thing past the mid to high double digits of Force. But yeah, at those scales the mana warp wouldn't mean jack. However, the time to make the Blood God and presuade him (very, very nicely) to make said uber ward would obviously make it redundant - the Horrors would be here and gone (along with the 6th world) before the ritual to make the uber ward would be complete. Not to mention the
cost 
But you already pointed that out, of course
Umm what about many mages making many smaller wards that touch each other.
But I think that still leaves you with the problem of "opening the door" when you go from one to the other. So you're really just making more hidey-holes.
I don't know much about the special 4 dimensional horror wards, though. I'm not really an earthdawn scholar.
I don't know much about the special 4 dimensional horror wards, though. I'm not really an earthdawn scholar.
| QUOTE (Jack Kain) |
| Would the villain Talon from the sega genesis shadowrun be counted as one of the horrors? |
Maybe. He isn't any Horror I know of and his presence at this point in the mana cycle suggests that he was just a Free Spirit of substantial power, but it is possible.
| QUOTE (NightmareX) |
| Good luck getting that blood spirit - strike that, Blood God - to Force 21664140000012 anytime soon and keeping control of the thing past the mid to high double digits of Force. But yeah, at those scales the mana warp wouldn't mean jack. |
That depends on how far the GM lets you abuse Essence Drain. Give him an optical microscope and let him drain bacteria for 6 essence each and he'll be up into the trillions in no time.
| QUOTE |
| But I think that still leaves you with the problem of "opening the door" when you go from one to the other. So you're really just making more hidey-holes. I don't know much about the special 4 dimensional horror wards, though. I'm not really an earthdawn scholar. |
Kaers were usually sealed with no possible entrance or exit except for a single narrow passage that can only be opened from the inside by people who are able to use the correct magical rituals. Thera created a giant magical wall of True Air to fully seal themselves off from the outside world while most others went underground.
It is very important that Kaers be completely sealed, both physically and magically. You don't want a porous kaer. Ask Alachia why. (And taunt her about how stuipid her wooden kear was while you are at it.)
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| You don't want a porous kaer. Ask Alachia why. (And taunt her about how stuipid her wooden kear was while you are at it.) |
Ummm, because the big bad wolf is a horror?
| QUOTE (hyzmarca) |
| It is very important that Kaers be completely sealed, both physically and magically. You don't want a porous kaer. Ask Alachia why. (And taunt her about how stuipid her wooden kear was while you are at it.) |
would you recommend asking that *before* or *after* large, painful spikes start growing out of her flesh?
(being as how we're already taunting an IE, i'd just like to know how to get the best mileage before i die
)
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| would you recommend asking that *before* or *after* large, painful spikes start growing out of her flesh? (being as how we're already taunting an IE, i'd just like to know how to get the best mileage before i die ) |
After. Just wait untill the mana level gets high enugh to reactivate her Ritual of THorns and then say "Yeah, that wooden kaer was a brilliant idea."
The Big Bad Wolf is a horror alright, but don't worry. You can just torture yourself and your children in the most horrific and painful manner possible and he'll leave you alone. Certain Horrors can only feed off of the pain that they themselves have caused. Torruting yourself and your loved ones to the point that you can no longer distinguish one pain from another makes you very unappetizing.
This doesn't help against Gnashers, but they aren't smart enough to break into half-destroyed Renamed blood-magic-tainted wooden kaer en mass. Baggi won't eat you because of the giant spikes, though, and that's a plus.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 1 2006, 11:56 AM) |
| You don't want a porous kaer. Ask Alachia why. (And taunt her about how stuipid her wooden kear was while you are at it.) |
Err... help me out who is Alachia?
| QUOTE (Mercurialrogue @ Dec 1 2006, 01:44 PM) | ||
Err... help me out who is Alachia? |
The elven queen in the 4th world who decides that her people should hide out in a kaer made of wood. Needless to say it doesn't stand too long (ala the Three pigs analogy of making a strong hut/kaer). As the horrors were coming in, she and her people decided to save themselves by making themselves suffer (by having thorns sprout from their bodies, so that most of the horrors will leave them alone. This is how the blood elves were started. They're constantly in pain... as people have mentioned in 6th world, there's enough S&M clubs that well... anyway.
*edited too make my explanation a little clearer.
| QUOTE (Hyzmarca) |
| Gnashers eat and jump. Those are the only two things they do. They don't even poop. They are truly omnivorous and their appetites are insatiable. They eat anything and everything untill they were full, which is never. Enough Gnashers could eat the entire planet. |
This description reminds me of that terrible movie, Tremors 2. The mini-graboids.
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| being as how we're already taunting an IE, i'd just like to know how to get the best mileage before i die |
Then you absolutely must describe how much more attractive Aina is, and how the dark elf's intelligence makes Alachia appear as simple as a baby ork.
| QUOTE (Mercurialrogue) |
| Err... help me out who is Alachia? |
The only way for everyone to survive would be to create superhuman soldiers who wear incredibly heavy armour and unite the rest of the people by preaching the word of an immortal god emperor. They'll even use the horror's own "mana warp" powers against them. And we'll colonise space and the elves will piss off on their own and slowly die away. Then they'd complain about the humans and stuff. The orks would run amok, killing and fighting in a single minded fury. And the humans would sand off the trolls horns and call them "ogryns". And the dwarves would all die out after a giant bug invasion of jupiter.
And for many millenia we would fight the horrors, but it still the only way to win. You may all kill me now.
And for many millenia we would fight the horrors, but it still the only way to win. You may all kill me now.
Metahumans for the win!
| QUOTE |
| Warding the entire planet only requires a character with a magic rating of 21664140000000 |
During the last Scourge the entire subcontinent of India (Indrisa) was protected by 144 holymen, sathalunta, who entered a trance state and produced healing energy, vimithritan, to keep the mana of the country stable and safe from the horrors.
| QUOTE (hyzmarca @ Dec 1 2006, 10:56 AM) | ||
Maybe. He isn't any Horror I know of and his presence at this point in the mana cycle suggests that he was just a Free Spirit of substantial power, but it is possible. |
I asked because Frosty and Harlequin who I know are cannon are involved in trying to stop them.
I also got the name wrong its Thon.
| QUOTE (ThreeGee) | ||
During the last Scourge the entire subcontinent of India (Indrisa) was protected by 144 holymen, sathalunta, who entered a trance state and produced healing energy, vimithritan, to keep the mana of the country stable and safe from the horrors. |
Well sure, allowing a mile of vertical head room, the surface of india can be warded by a volume of approximately 1.2 million cubic miles. Considerably smaller than the volume enclosed by geosyncronous sattelites.
| QUOTE (Lazerface) |
| And for many millenia we would fight the horrors, but it still the only way to win. You may all kill me now. |
With pleasure.
You forgot about Deus and co, maybe they went off and made an army of biomechanical drones, developed teleportation, and move around in giant flying pyramids.
Here's an important question. How far into the 4th world was it until the horrors appears.
500 years? 1,000 years, 2500 years? Just prior to the end of that age of magic.
Shadowrun is what in the 50th year of its mana cycle. Do we really think we can theorize what the battle with the horrors will be like when they come around? I mean really it be a seperatre game.
You'd have colonies on mars and stuff. Mages would put in cryostatis for transport as to avoid the effects of space's mana void.
Isn't it possible that mages of the 4th age suffered from drain just like the magicans of shadowrun before developing matrices and earthdawn is just set after the matricies had been developed.
Perhaps every mana wave is different somehow and requires there own unique matricies to be developed.
500 years? 1,000 years, 2500 years? Just prior to the end of that age of magic.
Shadowrun is what in the 50th year of its mana cycle. Do we really think we can theorize what the battle with the horrors will be like when they come around? I mean really it be a seperatre game.
You'd have colonies on mars and stuff. Mages would put in cryostatis for transport as to avoid the effects of space's mana void.
Isn't it possible that mages of the 4th age suffered from drain just like the magicans of shadowrun before developing matrices and earthdawn is just set after the matricies had been developed.
Perhaps every mana wave is different somehow and requires there own unique matricies to be developed.
The Scourge occurs at the higher end of the mana scale, and as such it won't be happening for another 1500 years, give or take a few centuries.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| The Scourge occurs at the higher end of the mana scale, and as such it won't be happening for another 1500 years, give or take a few centuries. |
So bascily people are arguing over how shadowrun of the now could defend againts the horrors in 1,500 years.
Concidering they have advanced warning and tactics due to surrivors (Ie immortal elves) from the last scourge. Magic and technology will be far beyond what it is in 2074.
Magic may be as powerful as it was in earthdawn by then, and technology (assuming it hasn't destoried the planet) would be far beyond what it is now.
We can't guess on anything. They may develop a mana void bomb a blending of technology and magic capable of temporarily creating a mana void. Or perhaps massive mana siphons that will keep the mana level on earth to low for the sourge to occur.
Then again maybe the horrors will never come because all life on earth will have been wipped out by then.
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