Say you're in the Hive, and you've made a deal with the King of Songbirds. He'll hand you a bunch of spirit formulae for his subjects, and in return, once you get to the Hive, you'll summon his army so they can feast. If you're holding a shitload of spirit formulae, can you summon them all at once? And if one of them is inhabiting, would you be able to let them persist in the Hive if you make a trueform out of them?
I read the summoning rules for free spirits, and it doesn't say if it takes a complex action, a simple action, or free action. I'd assume then that it's a "Whenever you want" action.
Full Version: Questions about the metaplanes and free spirits.
In the past, it required you to say the Free Spirit's True Name three times.
This, of course, has led to the unfortunate deaths of many children in relation to the traditional horror game "Bloody Mary."
This, of course, has led to the unfortunate deaths of many children in relation to the traditional horror game "Bloody Mary."
FRANK! FRAAAAAAAANK!!!!
Summoning is always a complex action, but there's a fatal flaw in this plan.
No magic affects cross planar boundaries. A targetted effect like a free spirit summoning is dno different from a ritual spell or a spirit power - it doesn't work if you and the spirit aren't on the same plane.
So if the spirits you are hoping t summon aren't already in the hive, they can't be summoned with their spirit formulae. Ouch.
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What you could do is summon up all the spirits before going on the astral quest, and then you'd be able to take them with you if you had the appropriate spirit guide to get you there in the first place.
Of course, then everybody gets to stand before the dweller together and hear each others' dirty laundry. What do you do when the dweller tells you that one or more of the pirits intends to kill you after the mission is complete to safeguard the spirit formulae?
-Frank
No magic affects cross planar boundaries. A targetted effect like a free spirit summoning is dno different from a ritual spell or a spirit power - it doesn't work if you and the spirit aren't on the same plane.
So if the spirits you are hoping t summon aren't already in the hive, they can't be summoned with their spirit formulae. Ouch.
---
What you could do is summon up all the spirits before going on the astral quest, and then you'd be able to take them with you if you had the appropriate spirit guide to get you there in the first place.
Of course, then everybody gets to stand before the dweller together and hear each others' dirty laundry. What do you do when the dweller tells you that one or more of the pirits intends to kill you after the mission is complete to safeguard the spirit formulae?
-Frank
Dude, if you have astral gateway, don't you avoid the Dweller altogether?
And if you make a deal with them while on their home plane, don't they have to agree to it, or does that only apply to spirit pacts?
And if you make a deal with them while on their home plane, don't they have to agree to it, or does that only apply to spirit pacts?
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| Dude, if you have astral gateway, don't you avoid the Dweller altogether? |
Yep. But that lowers the number of ways to get there substantially. Then you essentially need a Great Form Nymph Spirit - which is a rare bird indeed.
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| And if you make a deal with them while on their home plane, don't they have to agree to it, or does that only apply to spirit pacts? |
I assume you mean "abide" by it rather than "agree" to it. But regardless, a spirit must behave according to the stipulations of a spirit pact or the services demanded of a successful conjuring. Spirits don't have to do jack diddly they don't want to the rest of the time. If a spirit wants to lie to your face in the heart of its home plane it can totally do that.
-Frank
So spirit pacts can include simple contracts? Like an "If I say 'Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice, Beetlejuice' you'll be summoned no matter what" pact?
| QUOTE (FrankTrollman) |
| No magic affects cross planar boundaries. A targetted effect like a free spirit summoning is dno different from a ritual spell or a spirit power - it doesn't work if you and the spirit aren't on the same plane. |
Wait a second. That makes no sense.
Isn't the whole point of summoning a spirit that you're summoning it from its home plane (or wherever it happens to be)?
| QUOTE (Chandon) | ||
Wait a second. That makes no sense. Isn't the whole point of summoning a spirit that you're summoning it from its home plane (or wherever it happens to be)? |
Lends more credence to the theory that you are in fact creating the spirits, doesn't it?
-Frank
Then why would spirits have home planes?
Does that mean that when an insect shaman summons a queen, they're actually creating it rather than summoning it from the Hive? Or that only queens that are already here can be summoned?
What about bound spirits that go back to their home planes to hang out?
Summonings being inter-planar makes way more sense.
Does that mean that when an insect shaman summons a queen, they're actually creating it rather than summoning it from the Hive? Or that only queens that are already here can be summoned?
What about bound spirits that go back to their home planes to hang out?
Summonings being inter-planar makes way more sense.
The planar boundary thing may apply to other planes, the material/real world may be an exception.
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| Does that mean that when an insect shaman summons a queen, they're actually creating it rather than summoning it from the Hive? Or that only queens that are already here can be summoned? |
That's a very real possibility, and a lot of magicians believe that.
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| What about bound spirits that go back to their home planes to hang out? |
Has anyone actually seen them "hanging out"? No. They sometimes say that they go to the metalanes to "hang out", but spirits say a lot of things.
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| The planar boundary thing may apply to other planes, the material/real world may be an exception. |
It may well be. Spirits may actually come from outside the world where they are "conjured" across the boundary by magicians. The skill of Summoning may, in fact, be the exception to the rule that magic cannot affect a target on another plane. But it also may not be.
There's a big argument in Magical ttheory going about that point, it's been going since before 1st edition, and I sure as hell am not going to end it myself. There are very valid points on both sides.
Summoning a free spirit with its spirit formula actually does require that you be on the same plane for it to function. This leads many people to suspect that regular summoning works the same way and that there is - somewhere in real space - a repository of spirits that the summoned spirits are drawn from. You can't disprove that theory, because the repository could be literally anywhere and there's no guaranty that you'd know it if you saw it.
If you go on metaplanar quests, you encounter things that do appear to be real places that have actual events in them and actual inhabitants. Spirits talk about these experiences as if they corresponded to real locations with an independent existence. You can't prove or disprove that one either, because it's an inherently solipsistic argument. The claim and counter claim center on whether personal experience corresponds to real locations. How do you know you aren't in the Matrix now?
-Frank
I thought that the thing about cross planar boundaries only applied to sorcery. I don't recall a mention limiting magic.
| QUOTE (Ophis) |
| I thought that the thing about cross planar boundaries only applied to sorcery. I don't recall a mention limiting magic. |
Banishing, for example, fails to mention that you can't use it from half the world away just by thinking about the target. That's an error as far as I know. While the basic book is somewhat telegraphic on this point, Banishmet can only be used if the spirit is on the same plane of existence and within Line of Sight.
At least, that's what I was told when I was writing the spirit chapter for Street Magic. Rob may have changed his mind, but I doubt it.
-Frank
Okay banishment makes sense to only work on stuff in the same world as you, but was any mention given to summoning specifically?
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