'Lo
First time DS forum user, so please be gentle.
I was wondering if anyone out there has come across or invented rules for unarmed damage for cyberlimbs. Technically speaking, its metal and wire that you're pressing into someone else's meat, so you'd think that it would damage a bit more. By no means do I think it should be on par with bone lacing, but it seems odd to me that there isn't some sort of increased damage...something of the difference between being hit with a chicken drum stick or an aluminum baseball bat. Also I'm not sure wether there should be concessions for those that beef up the armor in a cyberlimb...not sure wether that would significantly increase damage potential.
Question 2, although I'm sure it's been addressed previously, are there any hard and fast rules for those that would dual-wield weapons? I fond the -2 penalty for fighting with the off-hand, but wondered what the mechanic was for dealing with a player using two guns, or swords...etc.
Full Version: Physical damage from cyberlimbs?
To which edition are you referring? (I guess it's SR4, but I want to be sure).
And welcome to DS. Enjoy your stay.
And welcome to DS. Enjoy your stay.
welcome to DS, sorry, changed your thread to a title a bit more helpful.
| QUOTE (ruknabard) |
| 'Lo First time DS forum user, so please be gentle. |
Sure. This won't hurt a bit ...
| QUOTE |
| I was wondering if anyone out there has come across or invented rules for unarmed damage for cyberlimbs. |
I would probably use the rules for (Plastic or Aluminum) Bone Lacing/Density ... damage is Physical, at either STR/2 +1 or +2.
| QUOTE |
| are there any hard and fast rules for those that would dual-wield weapons? I fond the -2 penalty for fighting with the off-hand, but wondered what the mechanic was for dealing with a player using two guns, or swords...etc. |
Technically there is no mechanic for dual weilding during Melee combat, but there is no reason why the ranged rules would not adequately apply.
For guns, you split the Dice Pool (Agility + Firearm Skill), then apply any modifiers (both positive and negative) to each new Pool before rolling each attack seperately. The -2 for off-hand applies if you don't have the Ambidexterity Edge, and recoil from each gun counts as a modifier against the other.
HELLO, AND WELCOME TO MOVIEPHONE...close enough...
Personally, here is how I would handle these situations, but I am by no means an authority.
So with the cyber limbs damage, The way I handle it is to keep any, bone lacing/etc, damage+whatever the strength of the arm is, or if you don't have that sort of thing, just make it normal unarmed damage, but you can choose between P or S, either useing your cyberlimb, or a normal one. By limb I mean at least half of the limb in question, so elbow or knee at the least to get the bonus, a hand or foot just isn't enough in my thinking.
As for the two weapons, this is handled on pg 141 SR4, you split your dice pool between two pistol or SMG class weapons.
Now for melee, as you only get on attack per complex action, there are two ways to do this, either allow a second attack in the same action while spliting the pool, suffering off hand modifiers.
Or as I suggested in a thread about this topic, just add +1 to the reach of the weapon, applying offhand mods as normal, this one has to use a little GM logic but, I like it, it is more subtle than splitting the pool, and still has one attack, and is really only effective for people with ambidexterity, as you may get +1 for over reaching your target, but a -2 on the total attack roll, it helps but really only shines with someone trained to do it.
One tip for being here on DSF, use the search feature before posting any sort of question, most things have been adressed, and quite well by players and even the developers sometimes. There are fellow posters out there who will come down hard on someone asking a question that there is a 5 page thread about the very thing you ask about. But if you can't find what you want to know, or your search-fu is not strong enough to find it, post, and either you'll be directed to what you seek by a kindly person or someone grumpy, but either way you will get where you need to be, or mabye what you ask is something no one has thought of and will spur new ideas...
So have fun... and I'm sure most of these people aren't such assholes in real life, or have as many firearms as they seem to based on their knowledge, which would be indicative of some sort of impending coup, or some such thing.
This is a great place to find out info about Shadowrun, just take it all with an open mind, a grain of salt, a shot of tequila, and a slice of lime and you'll be kosher. Although emo samurai's ideas may need a bit more to drink on occasion, they are lots of fun.
-Bryce
Personally, here is how I would handle these situations, but I am by no means an authority.
So with the cyber limbs damage, The way I handle it is to keep any, bone lacing/etc, damage+whatever the strength of the arm is, or if you don't have that sort of thing, just make it normal unarmed damage, but you can choose between P or S, either useing your cyberlimb, or a normal one. By limb I mean at least half of the limb in question, so elbow or knee at the least to get the bonus, a hand or foot just isn't enough in my thinking.
As for the two weapons, this is handled on pg 141 SR4, you split your dice pool between two pistol or SMG class weapons.
Now for melee, as you only get on attack per complex action, there are two ways to do this, either allow a second attack in the same action while spliting the pool, suffering off hand modifiers.
Or as I suggested in a thread about this topic, just add +1 to the reach of the weapon, applying offhand mods as normal, this one has to use a little GM logic but, I like it, it is more subtle than splitting the pool, and still has one attack, and is really only effective for people with ambidexterity, as you may get +1 for over reaching your target, but a -2 on the total attack roll, it helps but really only shines with someone trained to do it.
One tip for being here on DSF, use the search feature before posting any sort of question, most things have been adressed, and quite well by players and even the developers sometimes. There are fellow posters out there who will come down hard on someone asking a question that there is a 5 page thread about the very thing you ask about. But if you can't find what you want to know, or your search-fu is not strong enough to find it, post, and either you'll be directed to what you seek by a kindly person or someone grumpy, but either way you will get where you need to be, or mabye what you ask is something no one has thought of and will spur new ideas...
So have fun... and I'm sure most of these people aren't such assholes in real life, or have as many firearms as they seem to based on their knowledge, which would be indicative of some sort of impending coup, or some such thing.
This is a great place to find out info about Shadowrun, just take it all with an open mind, a grain of salt, a shot of tequila, and a slice of lime and you'll be kosher. Although emo samurai's ideas may need a bit more to drink on occasion, they are lots of fun.
-Bryce
since this is the SR4 forum I'll give SR4 answers.
There are no rules (yet) for the damage done by cyberlimbs. The problem is that bonelace and bone dencity augmentation effect every striking surface you can concieve of on the metahuman body. A cyberlimb only effects the use of one limb. You have to keep in mind that a turn or phase of melee combat involves several feignts, strikes, dodges and other maneuvers that collectivly add up to one attack roll with a damage rating of 1/2 str + weapon mod.
In my opinion the flavor of the game in SR4 is such that SoTA advancement to 2070 means that synthetic cyberlimbs are now a close enough analogue to natural limbs that the difernce is neglegable in game stats. I mean that the bones or frame is probably plastic, the muscles or actuators work/weigh/feel almost like natural muscle, and the skin is vat grown synthetic stuff that looks just like skin. (the really high end stuff might even grow hair and get tan from UV. I suspect that it might have to be maintained or nourished by a topical lotion of some sort.)
Obvious limbs with heavy armor mods are a horse of a diferent color of course.
I would suggest these house rules.
If the character has one cyberlimb and the character declairs that he is Leading with that limb you could change the damage from S type to P type.
If the character has two limbs give unarmed attacks a +1 damage mod with P type damage
Add one point to the Damage mod for each additional limb up to +3 for 2 arms and 2 legs.
Remember you can get +3P damage from instaling spurs in a single or even a partial limb.
Welcome
There are no rules (yet) for the damage done by cyberlimbs. The problem is that bonelace and bone dencity augmentation effect every striking surface you can concieve of on the metahuman body. A cyberlimb only effects the use of one limb. You have to keep in mind that a turn or phase of melee combat involves several feignts, strikes, dodges and other maneuvers that collectivly add up to one attack roll with a damage rating of 1/2 str + weapon mod.
In my opinion the flavor of the game in SR4 is such that SoTA advancement to 2070 means that synthetic cyberlimbs are now a close enough analogue to natural limbs that the difernce is neglegable in game stats. I mean that the bones or frame is probably plastic, the muscles or actuators work/weigh/feel almost like natural muscle, and the skin is vat grown synthetic stuff that looks just like skin. (the really high end stuff might even grow hair and get tan from UV. I suspect that it might have to be maintained or nourished by a topical lotion of some sort.)
Obvious limbs with heavy armor mods are a horse of a diferent color of course.
I would suggest these house rules.
If the character has one cyberlimb and the character declairs that he is Leading with that limb you could change the damage from S type to P type.
If the character has two limbs give unarmed attacks a +1 damage mod with P type damage
Add one point to the Damage mod for each additional limb up to +3 for 2 arms and 2 legs.
Remember you can get +3P damage from instaling spurs in a single or even a partial limb.
Welcome
Wow..
Thanks for the warm and very timely replies...
I'll be sure to try out the search feature from here on out..to avoid being repititous
to avoid being repititous...
I like the ideas on the cyberlimb stuff so far...i just didnt want to obsolete bone lacing with it, that would be neglecting the relative balance stuck so far.
I like the idea of the +1 reach, from a stand point of someone who has watched a bit of fencing and historical re-enactment, it makes more sense. Given, effectively cutting weapon swinging arcs (and hence, power) is cut down by the inability to make full strokes and arcs with the weapon...me likes.
I did, however, storm up two more questions that a player of mine is likely to ask in response:
How should dual wielding affect a parry roll?
My assumption would be to apply the same +1 reach for a subtle effect.
Also I think he may ask: what if i wield a normally one handed weapon (say, a longsword) with two hands?
The response I'm tinkering with right now is that it would add a flat +1 to base damage, but only to weapons of appropriate size (using a dagger with two hands doesn't really add much in the leverage department), thinking that the larger weapons already have the extra damage accounted for.
Thoughts?
Thanks for the warm and very timely replies...
I'll be sure to try out the search feature from here on out..to avoid being repititous
to avoid being repititous...
I like the ideas on the cyberlimb stuff so far...i just didnt want to obsolete bone lacing with it, that would be neglecting the relative balance stuck so far.
I like the idea of the +1 reach, from a stand point of someone who has watched a bit of fencing and historical re-enactment, it makes more sense. Given, effectively cutting weapon swinging arcs (and hence, power) is cut down by the inability to make full strokes and arcs with the weapon...me likes.
I did, however, storm up two more questions that a player of mine is likely to ask in response:
How should dual wielding affect a parry roll?
My assumption would be to apply the same +1 reach for a subtle effect.
Also I think he may ask: what if i wield a normally one handed weapon (say, a longsword) with two hands?
The response I'm tinkering with right now is that it would add a flat +1 to base damage, but only to weapons of appropriate size (using a dagger with two hands doesn't really add much in the leverage department), thinking that the larger weapons already have the extra damage accounted for.
Thoughts?
Parry does not take into account the weapon, but I would say look at the reaches and if you win, +1 die to parry with, as always taking into account offhand, so parrying with an offhand weapon that you take -2 with isn't really effective.
If you want a big weapon, just say the combat axe is a greatsword, give it to a troll, and have him make corp sec sushi....
On the cyberlimb, giving the option of P or S, to me takes care of it, unless you have specific ware that gives you a damage bonus, you shouldn't get one while not paying the essence and monetary costs.
If you want a big weapon, just say the combat axe is a greatsword, give it to a troll, and have him make corp sec sushi....
On the cyberlimb, giving the option of P or S, to me takes care of it, unless you have specific ware that gives you a damage bonus, you shouldn't get one while not paying the essence and monetary costs.
Should have been more specific on the one about parrying...
When using weapon skill to parry:
The +1 reach die I was talking about was in application of the mechanic presented before for dual wielding...being that in lieu of a second seperate roll, merely add +1 reach to the attack (signifying the unified motion of using two weapons in concert, not as individual attacks). So, more or less, just add +1 reach when parrying with two weapons as well (to reflect using them together, not as two seperate on-hand/off-hand attempts to block a strike)
I -think- that makes sense...
When using weapon skill to parry:
The +1 reach die I was talking about was in application of the mechanic presented before for dual wielding...being that in lieu of a second seperate roll, merely add +1 reach to the attack (signifying the unified motion of using two weapons in concert, not as individual attacks). So, more or less, just add +1 reach when parrying with two weapons as well (to reflect using them together, not as two seperate on-hand/off-hand attempts to block a strike)
I -think- that makes sense...
Ok, gotcha, we're saying the same things differently, what I mean is just look at the reach numbers, and if yours is greater taking into account the extra weapon, you get a plus one, if they out reach you, or if its even, you really couldn't put the extra weapon into an advantage, just it helps you parry the weapon, but won't add anything extra.
Righto...we made the ends meet.
| QUOTE (Fortune) |
| Technically there is no mechanic for dual weilding during Melee combat, but there is no reason why the ranged rules would not adequately apply. |
Thats because in melee combat you can split your dice pool to attack multiple foes. Even with only one weapon in your hand.
Yeah I know. The rules just don't make any provision at all for using multiple weapons in melee.
It would be something nice. I've noticed there arnt really ANY advanced combat rules in SR4 yet. Which makes me wonder if they will be in arsenal just like martial arts etc is in CC for SR3
Well, with the basic Strength/2 setting, Cyberlimbs can get a damage bonus just right there.
If you wanted even more, quick and dirty would be to make it physical, with a damage bonus equal to the limb's Armor bonus. (Thus, Armor 2 would be (Str/2) +2) ... Reflects that with more metal on there, it'll hit harder, and gives a way to increase the damage later without having some bottomless pit that it can dig into.
So, if Tater tot the adorable mechanic has a Strength of 2, but her Cyberarm has a Strength of 5 and Armor 1, she can dish out 4P with her punch.
If you wanted even more, quick and dirty would be to make it physical, with a damage bonus equal to the limb's Armor bonus. (Thus, Armor 2 would be (Str/2) +2) ... Reflects that with more metal on there, it'll hit harder, and gives a way to increase the damage later without having some bottomless pit that it can dig into.
So, if Tater tot the adorable mechanic has a Strength of 2, but her Cyberarm has a Strength of 5 and Armor 1, she can dish out 4P with her punch.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.