I'm playing a technomancer and the GM and I are trying to grasp a few concepts related to the crack sprite usage.
We all know that an unregistered sprite will not function when it leaves the node that the technomancer is in. (exact wording may be off, dont have book with me)
Can an unregistered crack sprite break into another node and have the technomancer piggyback in to thereby avoid their de-rez when they hop? If thats the case could the technomancer do an assist to the sprite?
Or can only a registered crack sprite do system breakins via the remote task option. If so, what are some valid uses for an unregistered crack sprite as to me, they have more of a 'break into nodes' flavor.
Thanks
Full Version: Technomancer + crack sprite
theoretically, you could treat hacking on the fly as being like the extended probe option... that is, you're looking for a way to access, and that way of accessing the system is not limited to you. so, for example, your sprite could find the way in, give it to you, and then you could enter.
or at least, that seems a reasonable interpretation to me.
alternately, you could crack the system while the sprite merely uses it's alarm suppressing ability on it...
or at least, that seems a reasonable interpretation to me.
alternately, you could crack the system while the sprite merely uses it's alarm suppressing ability on it...
Decrypting for you instead of having to take the CF or thread.
Defuse bombs.
Leave it to edit the camera feeds of security while you search for paydata or open doors, etc.
Leave it to watch your back while you do stuff (Analyze)
Scan for hidden nodes, wireless traffic, etc.
They're also pretty good hackers in their own right and a force 6 could probably do a run by itself if you plan it right.
Defuse bombs.
Leave it to edit the camera feeds of security while you search for paydata or open doors, etc.
Leave it to watch your back while you do stuff (Analyze)
Scan for hidden nodes, wireless traffic, etc.
They're also pretty good hackers in their own right and a force 6 could probably do a run by itself if you plan it right.
Its called a 'Remote Task', just like spirits. Lets say you want into a node, well you remote task the sprite to edit an admin account for you to log in, and it just has to log in to do it. Within the rules of how to do it.
Course, if your GM rules that you dont actually leave your node if you hack in, more power to you.
Course, if your GM rules that you dont actually leave your node if you hack in, more power to you.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Its called a 'Remote Task', just like spirits. Lets say you want into a node, well you remote task the sprite to edit an admin account for you to log in, and it just has to log in to do it. Within the rules of how to do it. Course, if your GM rules that you dont actually leave your node if you hack in, more power to you. |
he was asking if it was possible to use it to hack in without putting it on a remote task though
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
he was asking if it was possible to use it to hack in without putting it on a remote task though |
Ah, ok, my bad. By my thoughts, probably not.
yea the remote task option for unregistered sprites consumes all remaining tasks.
Looking to see if you can break in but yet still keep tasks since it may come up that you get a great rating sprite and it flubs so you have a large net success.
I'm ok with making on the fly one shot sprites for this, but was looking for other possible options.
Sorry, Whenever i post the questions they sound better in my head. Its usually a scenerio of actions with the questions pop up as they play out.
Looking to see if you can break in but yet still keep tasks since it may come up that you get a great rating sprite and it flubs so you have a large net success.
I'm ok with making on the fly one shot sprites for this, but was looking for other possible options.
Sorry, Whenever i post the questions they sound better in my head. Its usually a scenerio of actions with the questions pop up as they play out.
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
| Decrypting for you instead of having to take the CF or thread. |
Better off with an data sprite for this.
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
Defuse bombs. |
I dont have my books with me, but i'm not sure if they have defuse. I want to say defuse and databomb are data sprite abilites.
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
Leave it to edit the camera feeds of security while you search for paydata or open doors, etc. |
Depending on situation, this might cause node changes and therefore it would 'suspend'
| QUOTE (Cheops) |
Leave it to watch your back while you do stuff (Analyze) Scan for hidden nodes, wireless traffic, etc. They're also pretty good hackers in their own right and a force 6 could probably do a run by itself if you plan it right. |
Thanks for the input, though for many of your suggestions it would be for either a different sprite or it would still need to be registered.
I'll agree with you, a prepared technomancer is like having multiple hackers.
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
| theoretically, you could treat hacking on the fly as being like the extended probe option... that is, you're looking for a way to access, and that way of accessing the system is not limited to you. so, for example, your sprite could find the way in, give it to you, and then you could enter. or at least, that seems a reasonable interpretation to me. |
I'll run that by my GM
| QUOTE (Jaid) |
alternately, you could crack the system while the sprite merely uses it's alarm suppressing ability on it... |
Wish that was an option, but crack sprites can only supress alerts they create. I invision it as the "I'm so good a breaking into stuff, ahh crap an alert. hmmm lets just bump that process to the end of the queue a few times. *a few phases pass and it then forgets about resetting it as its found something else shiny to poke at* Alert happens"
*hindsight* i should of probabaly done this all in one huge post /shrug
Actually crack sprites do have all those powers but as optional ones. My suggestions are valid just not always applicable depending on what options it has. I was assuming that any sprite would be at least rating 3.
With 6 Res, 3 Compile and 5 Will, I routinly compile rank 6 sprites with full resist or 1 stun damage. This allows 2 optional CFs and pushes alarms back 3 turns, though a R6 sprite rarely triggers alarms, even when going up to Admin level hacking.
If you do trigger an alarm, you still have enough time in 3 turns to do alot of damage or find that piece of data to copy to your own commlink or whatever. Hell, you even have enough time to edit the security logs and get rid of your actions.
If you do trigger an alarm, you still have enough time in 3 turns to do alot of damage or find that piece of data to copy to your own commlink or whatever. Hell, you even have enough time to edit the security logs and get rid of your actions.
| QUOTE (Blog @ Dec 8 2006, 01:15 PM) |
| I'm playing a technomancer and the GM and I are trying to grasp a few concepts related to the crack sprite usage. We all know that an unregistered sprite will not function when it leaves the node that the technomancer is in. (exact wording may be off, dont have book with me) Can an unregistered crack sprite break into another node and have the technomancer piggyback in to thereby avoid their de-rez when they hop? If thats the case could the technomancer do an assist to the sprite? Or can only a registered crack sprite do system breakins via the remote task option. If so, what are some valid uses for an unregistered crack sprite as to me, they have more of a 'break into nodes' flavor. Thanks |
I take the opposite view of most everyone who has replied so far.
A technomancer's persona is her brain. When she hacks another computer, the persona doesn't actually leave her brain. I refuse to carry the TM / Mage analogy to the point of hacking = astral projection. I don't see how a TM can "leave your node" as Konsaki suggests.
A sprite should be able to hack a node, and perform operations on it, as long as the TM is also connected to that node. The TM should be able to perform operations on a node that has been hacked open by her sprite.
At the same time, the TM is at risk wrt. countermeasures. If the sprite is detected, and perceived to be a sprite, security should be able to search for the TM.
When a Sprite performs a remote task, it is operating on a node that the TM is NOT connected to.
--------------------
As far as having the TM assist the sprite, I never tried that because I thought it would be cheesy. Only a registered sprite can assist a TM; having a TM assist an unregistered sprite seems like cheating to me.
| QUOTE (De Badd Ass @ Dec 9 2006, 04:59 AM) | ||
I take the opposite view of most everyone who has replied so far. A technomancer's persona is her brain. When she hacks another computer, the persona doesn't actually leave her brain. I refuse to carry the TM / Mage analogy to the point of hacking = astral projection. I don't see how a TM can "leave your node" as Konsaki suggests. A sprite should be able to hack a node, and perform operations on it, as long as the TM is also connected to that node. The TM should be able to perform operations on a node that has been hacked open by her sprite. At the same time, the TM is at risk wrt. countermeasures. If the sprite is detected, and perceived to be a sprite, security should be able to search for the TM. When a Sprite performs a remote task, it is operating on a node that the TM is NOT connected to. -------------------- As far as having the TM assist the sprite, I never tried that because I thought it would be cheesy. Only a registered sprite can assist a TM; having a TM assist an unregistered sprite seems like cheating to me. |
Three flaws that I saw when I first read this, while a persona (Hacker or TM) doesnt have to leave their home node (Commlink or Brain), they do have to split their persona so they can log into the new node. (Read multiple persona in the BBB)
Second, you cant actually legally connect to a node without a user ID/profile (User/Sec/Admin) to log in with. During the hacking in process, you are connected with it because you are actively trying to gain entrance. Therefor, unless you with to try and hack with your sprite, it would leave your home node (Brain) to hack in, because sprites and agents cannot split like personna can.
Third flaw, if the sprite is seen by IC or whatever, unless they are a TM themselves, all they see is a weird looking agent and they might just look past that to see an agent acting on the behalf of a hacker (You).
We are attaching multiple meanings to the word connection.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Three flaws that I saw when I first read this, while a persona (Hacker or TM) doesnt have to leave their home node (Commlink or Brain), they do have to split their persona so they can log into the new node. (Read multiple persona in the BBB) |
A hacker doesn't have multiple persona, she has one persona that can connect to a maximum of system*2 nodes at once. She can only act in one node at a time, and her persona only has one condition monitor.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Second, you cant actually legally connect to a node without a user ID/profile (User/Sec/Admin) to log in with. During the hacking in process, you are connected with it because you are actively trying to gain entrance. Therefor, unless you with to try and hack with your sprite, it would leave your home node (Brain) to hack in, because sprites and agents cannot split like personna can. |
A sprite can't enter a node before it hacks in. That means it has to hack in from another node. It is running on the other node while hacking in to the target node. That other node could be the TM, or any node the TM is connected to.
The hacking process establishes an illegal connection (not a legal connection). The fact that a sprite that hacked in on-the-fly doesn't obtain a passcode for future logins doesn't prevent the TM from sharing the current login.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Third flaw, if the sprite is seen by IC or whatever, unless they are a TM themselves, all they see is a weird looking agent and they might just look past that to see an agent acting on the behalf of a hacker (You). |
Did you make that up? I can't find that anywhere.
| QUOTE (SR4 p217: Matrix Perception Tests) |
| Your net hits determine how successful the examination is. For each net hit scored, you can ask for one piece of information about the object—this could be type, rating, alert status, or any other pertinent information. |
Does type equal sprite or wierd looking agent?
When you connect to a node, your persona logs in and is now in that node, whether or not you are also in other nodes at the same time.
Fine, after you hack into the node, your agent now has an illegal account and automaticly logs in, leaving your own node. Agents and Sprites cannot log into multiple nodes at the same time. If the sprite leaves the node the TM is in, it is considered a remote task.
Can a normal hacker sense the resonance around a TM or Sprite? No.
A sprite performs the same as an agent, as in the same tasks and functions. Yes.
When spotted, someone thinks Agent, because its the most plausible. Yes.
Fine, after you hack into the node, your agent now has an illegal account and automaticly logs in, leaving your own node. Agents and Sprites cannot log into multiple nodes at the same time. If the sprite leaves the node the TM is in, it is considered a remote task.
Can a normal hacker sense the resonance around a TM or Sprite? No.
A sprite performs the same as an agent, as in the same tasks and functions. Yes.
When spotted, someone thinks Agent, because its the most plausible. Yes.
It seems like you are making up stuff to support your argument.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| after you hack into the node, your agent now has an illegal account and automaticly logs in, leaving your own node. |
| QUOTE (SR4 P221: Hacking on the Fly) |
| If you beat the threshold, you have bypassed the security and now have access to the node. |
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| unless you with to try and hack with your sprite, it would leave your home node (Brain) to hack in, because sprites and agents cannot split like personna can. |
| QUOTE (SR4 P227: Using Agents) |
| Agents can be loaded into your persona like other programs (taking a Complex Action), allowing the agent to accompany you to any nodes you access. |
That's nodes - plural.
| QUOTE (Konsaki) |
| Can a normal hacker sense the resonance around a TM or Sprite? No. A sprite performs the same as an agent, as in the same tasks and functions. Yes. When spotted, someone thinks Agent, because its the most plausible. Yes. |
As seen above, an agent could be running in a hacker's persona, so it might be wise for security to search for the hacker when it detects an agent.
An agent loaded into your persona can be everywhere you are. Like you, it can only act in one location at a time.
Fine, I'm done with the top portion, it's just going to be a difference of opinion, since I stated my stance and you have yours. Even though you quoted lines from the book, they dont specificly counter my points in the context I put them out with.
As for the last section, you are correct that a sprite can run in the TM persona, just like agents with a Commlink persona, but when on a remote task, they arnt. So your point is moot. I was talking about sprites acting on remote tasks, since that was what I was going after with the previous points.
Just like if a sec hacker found a TM, they woudnt think 'OMG, It's a TM!'. They would think, 'OMG, there is a HACKER here!' and would act accordingly.
As for the last section, you are correct that a sprite can run in the TM persona, just like agents with a Commlink persona, but when on a remote task, they arnt. So your point is moot. I was talking about sprites acting on remote tasks, since that was what I was going after with the previous points.
Just like if a sec hacker found a TM, they woudnt think 'OMG, It's a TM!'. They would think, 'OMG, there is a HACKER here!' and would act accordingly.
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