There is an obvious incentive to always take level 6 (or possibly level 3) program given their cost because of the linearity. Each dice is worth as much as the next so you never have to consider diminishing return.

I didn't have this situation when I started because the Hacker simply used a customized version of the hacker archetype in the book. Basically swapped a few things around to decrease social ineptitude and increase combat effectiveness by making a few sacrifice.

But latest session there there was a buying spree following the biggest payday of the campaign and it has become rather obvious programs that rating 5 and below programs are a dying breed. And it looks like the same situation occurs with most rated piece of equipment.

Time to bring back some exponentiality to SR4, methinks.

Does that program cost looks like an improvement?

Common use program

1 : 25
2 : 100
3 : 225
4 : 400
5 : 625
6 : 900

Hacking Program

1 : 250
2 : 1000
3 : 2250
4 : 4000
5 : 6250
6 : 9000

It's simply rating^2 x 25 or 250.

I like using 25 and 250 as a multiplier since rating 2 and 4 yield the same value as the classic table so you know the balance won't be thrown out of whack.

To have roughly the same effect with other rated gears that don't double the multiplier at rating 4, you'd need the use 25% of the multiplier in the BBB. Rating^2 x 0.25 multiplier

Then level 1-3 are cheaper, level 4 cost the same while 5 - 6 are more expensive.

so i see that you added a zero to all of the prices of the common programs if i followed you right, making them insanely expensive and then if you did that same thing with hacking programs...well i don't think anyone would want to be a hacker anymore. but by reader your post more i think i am more confused then anything else? simple i think i just dont get it

In my experience, everyone has programs at rating 6. That does indeed distort the power balance as it leaves less room for distinction between hackers. It's also impossible to justify a corporation's hackers using less than rating 6. So re-aligining the costs might be a good way of bringing things back into line with 3 returning to an average value.

There are around 17 must have programs for a hacker ( about 5 of them common use? ). If you assume that you want a standard hacker player in your game to be able to start with all of these at rating 3, then you're looking at 12 * 2,250 + 5 * 225 = 28,125 . That's a reasonable price for the necessary equipment. That is to say that it's not going to stop anyone with a viable concept.

Getting the same lot at rating 6 is going to be 112,500 . Again, it's in reach, but this time it's actually going to mean a little more sacrifice compared to the 75,000 it costs in RAW.

So first impressions, it looks like it would be around right and not throw things too out of whack. You'll see more of a distinction between riggers and hackers and the hacker type (if there is one) wont be so closely followed by the samurai that dabbles. Yeah - this will put a bit of a slant on the game to redress things. Not a huge one, but it will be there.

Currently, I assume that Bob teh Hacker is running with rating 3's acros the board for common use and rating 2 for Cracking programs ... since his System rating is only a 3, he gets system drag when running 3-5 prgrams, so only bothers with rating 2 at that level. Hotshot teh Hacker, similarly, is running with 4's on Common Use and 3's for Hacking, since he has a high end system with System 4.

Corporate setups, being immune to slowdown, only have a system 3, but all programs run at 3, since, well, no point in geting a cheaper one. The more tech-centric corporations run at 4's across the board, which is a *huge* cash expendature (Rating 3 program = 150, rating 4 = 400, a 166% markup per employee!)

That keeps rating 5's and 6's in the hands of big name Hackers and serious corporate strike teams. It's, what, Availability 16 for a 5, 20 for a 6? Those things are *rare* and heavily controlled. Since it takes months and months to code your own, getting to that level should take forever and a day.

Mind you, I also grouse at the "Just crack and share" SR4 program stuff. I mean, if that's teh case, why even include a cost? Everything should cost what a chip does, since it'd all be ready for download in hundreds of places, traded in school hallways, etc. I won't even talk about how the companies must feel, since the new stuff tehy ship out is ripped and done before it even hits market. Why even *make* product at that stage? I mean, geeze, you can rip a BTL, now, where it won't burnout when used. And there's a profit in the Bettlemarket?! Happychips would be at every party, ever. "Free! Take a handful and enjoy!"

Madness.

Wakashaani:

Everything can be downloaded via BitTottenrt and Emule TODAY. Still people are selling software.
Whats the problem?

I have to agree with Serbiter. I don't like most of the hacker program cost stuff. I think that they would either get it from hacker friends or write their own.

I think that the best way to bring hacker program ratings down is to either lower the rating available on the blackmarket or restrict it by contact connection ratings or get rid of any buyable hacking programs able a 3 and make hackers write thier own above that. Restrict the rating of their programs to the level of their Hacking and their Software skills. This way there is reason to keep working on on your skill levels as well.

If there is no real reason to not have the programs at max then that is what you will always get. Making them more expensive is just going to make players think that you are driving the cost of making a proper hacker up as opposed to making the other ratings more likely. My way will actually open it up because everyone will be limited.

Yeah but I mean unless i'm mistaken raiting 6 is as high as a program gets. ANd while there's no real reason not to have it at raiting 6 it shoudlnt be lickity split look at me! with almost no work I am an uber hacker!

I mean look at how much money and time it takes runners to get things like betaware, or god forbid even deltaware. ANd a top of the line R6 everything comlink isnt hard to get either (Some one said you can get higher than R6 with a comlink but other than on signal I dont see where thats actually possible atm as the tables cut off at 6)

I think the idea is more along the lines of making hackers have to actually -work- towards SOTA gear for their profession like everyone else. Of course ultimately you allways wind up with some one who's proffesion is far cheaper to maintain than others.

So is it a situation do you think that they wanted to have something money wize for them to buy up? I mean it seems like that is a balence point that they seem to want. Everyone should have their own pieces of equipment that they will try and buy up?

If there needs to be a cost why not have a BP cost or karma cost representing time and effort spent, then chuck the nuyen cost.

Well because experience has nothing to do with money. So i wouldnt associate karma cost with gear. The only time karma is used with gear is if it's a focus or some other similar item.

BP is abit of another story, but if it's something very expensive or beyond R12 they cant get it out of CG anyway. It's not hard at all to come up with money sinks for PCs. And there are quite a fwe allready.

New Fake IDs
New Gear
Replacement for lost/damaged/purposesly destroyed gear
Rent
Vehicles
Ammunition
That 'good' set of clothes so you can do that job at that high end hotel without automatically looking like a complete thug.

So if their a low level runner making bit pay jobs they wont have the cash for the really totally uber SOTA stuff. Unless they work at savnig up that cash to buy that totally killer stealth program or what ever. (Or even work at coding it from scratch which takes time)

I mean to an extent I definately feel some 'basic' gear should allways be relatively cheap and easy to aquire. But to me it's less of a challenge when I can get the very best stuff off the rack shortly after stepping out of chargen (Or even in chargen). I mean personally I like having to work abit towards that high end piece of stuff. But thats really just a personal preference. Because after you have all the best stuff, a permanent luxury lifestyle and all the money you could want....

The heck else do you have to work for? At that point any sane person would retire from the shadows. Of course I suppose on the flipside with a really good GM they could still keep things quite interesting by simply upping the ante with really high end jobs that also happen to require to spend some of that huge sum of cash you've aquired now and then.

I suppose thats the other thing, in a total saturation atmosphere where you have infinate karma and money, the sammies will eventually hard cap every skill and attribute, where awakened will hard cap everything but magic and infinately grow in power till they run outo f spells, foci and other things to spend karma on.

Forum somewhat fucked. I got two posts for some reason. Deleted this one.