AFAIK, you can't use teamwork for skills like spellcasting (that'd be ritual sorcery), conjuring, etc with the possible esception of counterspelling which I'm under the impression you can use teamwork with
SO my idea is Ritual Summoning. An advanced metamagic technique that requires great ritual as a prereq.
It would essentially follow the same rules or ritual summoning substituting characters conjuring skill. The spirit would then be under the control of the ritual leader. The technique could also be used for binding (might be another advanced metamagic technique) and invoking
comments, ideas, corrections, flames?
Full Version: yet another magical idea
sounds like a terrible idea.
i mean.. great idea, spirits aren't already stomping the crap out of everything in sight nearly half as much as they need to be! let's add some power to summoning, because clearly summoning is just not strong enough as is... [/sarcasm].
yeah, like i said in the first line when i was serious... don't want it. don't think it's needed. sounds like a terrible idea (and not a new one, incidentally).
i mean.. great idea, spirits aren't already stomping the crap out of everything in sight nearly half as much as they need to be! let's add some power to summoning, because clearly summoning is just not strong enough as is... [/sarcasm].
yeah, like i said in the first line when i was serious... don't want it. don't think it's needed. sounds like a terrible idea (and not a new one, incidentally).
...mage teams who conspire to do this and the spirit they summon are moved up on the target queue for forthcoming Thor Shots.
...or at the very least, a Firkin size FAE.
Either of these should be good enough to get past the immunity to normal weapons.
...or at the very least, a Firkin size FAE.
Either of these should be good enough to get past the immunity to normal weapons.
Oh and don't forget this variation. You have each mage summon their spirit and then they can do a summoning ritual together to combine their spirits into basalt spirit that will wreak havoc.
Ex) Five young explorers who each have their companion animal (lion) spirits. When it gets too much for them, they can all get together and have their spirits form together and make a large humanoid spirit with lion features. Each ends of the limbs can also have a feature of each individual spirit and the spirit can call forth it's sword to smite its foes, and the basalt spirit's true name will be Voltron.
Ex) Five young explorers who each have their companion animal (lion) spirits. When it gets too much for them, they can all get together and have their spirits form together and make a large humanoid spirit with lion features. Each ends of the limbs can also have a feature of each individual spirit and the spirit can call forth it's sword to smite its foes, and the basalt spirit's true name will be Voltron.
Actually why not go in the other direction and have ritual summoning a requirement for Invokation? Fits with the stories of old cabals summoning powerful spirits from beyond!
| QUOTE (Garrowolf) |
| Actually why not go in the other direction and have ritual summoning a requirement for Invokation? Fits with the stories of old cabals summoning powerful spirits from beyond! |
....I could go for (as in houserule) that.
Yeah, great idea! Maybe with a required total of initiation degrees equal to the force of the spirit?
One of the things I am working on for my game is that I want lower level spirits to be more useful. I am working in several different directions.
More powerful:
Larger damage tracks
AP ignored on immunity to normal weapons
Possibly no effect by normal weapons but focus on the willpower effect fom street magic.
Can negotiate for more services without binding them (etiquette test) with threshold based on what you had asked it to do and how you treated it and how long it has already been around.
Less powerful:
Can't summon anything higher then your magic rating at all - no over summoning
Lower rating spirits can be summoned in a complex action but the higher the force the longer to takes.
Spirits are more independant to start with and may either try and refuse something that hurts someone they like or delay their action debating with you. They might argue about hurting a guard just doing their job but they would be more willing to attack someone attacking you. (watchers would still do patrols though)
They can also get bored with doing something and loose interest (ie they are not drones and dont do guard duty well). They will be more likely to stay interested in doing something with you related to magic then having them go off and do something mundane on their own.
Now I would add this idea about multiple summoners required to invoke. I like the idea of their combined initatory grade limiting the force of the spirit.
I would also say that you can't bind any spirit of a force higher then your magic rating, you could only ask it or bargain with it in exchange for something.
More powerful:
Larger damage tracks
AP ignored on immunity to normal weapons
Possibly no effect by normal weapons but focus on the willpower effect fom street magic.
Can negotiate for more services without binding them (etiquette test) with threshold based on what you had asked it to do and how you treated it and how long it has already been around.
Less powerful:
Can't summon anything higher then your magic rating at all - no over summoning
Lower rating spirits can be summoned in a complex action but the higher the force the longer to takes.
Spirits are more independant to start with and may either try and refuse something that hurts someone they like or delay their action debating with you. They might argue about hurting a guard just doing their job but they would be more willing to attack someone attacking you. (watchers would still do patrols though)
They can also get bored with doing something and loose interest (ie they are not drones and dont do guard duty well). They will be more likely to stay interested in doing something with you related to magic then having them go off and do something mundane on their own.
Now I would add this idea about multiple summoners required to invoke. I like the idea of their combined initatory grade limiting the force of the spirit.
I would also say that you can't bind any spirit of a force higher then your magic rating, you could only ask it or bargain with it in exchange for something.
| QUOTE (Ryu) |
| Yeah, great idea! Maybe with a required total of initiation degrees equal to the force of the spirit? |
...if the group is large, this doesn't work.
I would maybe go with the highest initiate grade in the group as the limiting factor.
| QUOTE (Garrowolf) |
| One of the things I am working on for my game is that I want lower level spirits to be more useful. I am working in several different directions. More powerful: Larger damage tracks AP ignored on immunity to normal weapons Possibly no effect by normal weapons but focus on the willpower effect fom street magic. Can negotiate for more services without binding them (etiquette test) with threshold based on what you had asked it to do and how you treated it and how long it has already been around. Less powerful: Can't summon anything higher then your magic rating at all - no over summoning Lower rating spirits can be summoned in a complex action but the higher the force the longer to takes. Spirits are more independant to start with and may either try and refuse something that hurts someone they like or delay their action debating with you. They might argue about hurting a guard just doing their job but they would be more willing to attack someone attacking you. (watchers would still do patrols though) They can also get bored with doing something and loose interest (ie they are not drones and dont do guard duty well). They will be more likely to stay interested in doing something with you related to magic then having them go off and do something mundane on their own. Now I would add this idea about multiple summoners required to invoke. I like the idea of their combined initatory grade limiting the force of the spirit. I would also say that you can't bind any spirit of a force higher then your magic rating, you could only ask it or bargain with it in exchange for something. |
@Garrowolf:. Can be done almost entirely within the rules. Have spirits roll edge to resist binding / summoning as standard. Have them go violently uncontrolled every time the magician fails to extract services from them. This ties with the general principle of mages in Shadowrun of greater power for more risk.
Actually I never use edge with NPCs. They don't have the trait. The NPCs already have alot of advantages because they are the majority and I tend to run the setting dark. In exchange NPCs take their lumps as the rolls say. They get no professional rating stuff either.
I could see some form of it working, but more along the lines of more tasks, longer duration, several at a time, etc. Not Force 20 spirits.
A cabal of 5 mages summoning 20 earth spirits to bore a tunnel or do construction work might not be out of line.
A cabal of 5 mages summoning 20 earth spirits to bore a tunnel or do construction work might not be out of line.
| QUOTE (Lord Ben) |
| I could see some form of it working, but more along the lines of more tasks, longer duration, several at a time, etc. Not Force 20 spirits. A cabal of 5 mages summoning 20 earth spirits to bore a tunnel or do construction work might not be out of line. |
a cabal of 5 mages can already summon 20 earth elementals to tunnel through the earth, assuming they have an average charisma of 4 or better... not terribly unlikely, imo.
that being said, what i *might* consider allowing, is for some sort of ritual that replaces the karma for a 1 year spirit binding.
I'm afraid maebe there's been some misunderstanding as to how this would work. a couple of clarifications.
you'd wtill be limited to 2xmagic of the leader (or maybe the lowest rating of the mages involved).
All it really does is allow you to get more services out of your spirit.
and make it more likely you'll be able to bind it.
And remember, all the mages involved have to take drain based on the force of the spirit. Most cabals won't be wanting to risk killing their mages this way unless it's something really important.
you'd wtill be limited to 2xmagic of the leader (or maybe the lowest rating of the mages involved).
All it really does is allow you to get more services out of your spirit.
and make it more likely you'll be able to bind it.
And remember, all the mages involved have to take drain based on the force of the spirit. Most cabals won't be wanting to risk killing their mages this way unless it's something really important.
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