Hoi all,

I'm trying to figure out a few things with regards to fake IDs.

I've looked through both SR3 and Sprawl Survival Guide, and think I have a solid enough understanding on what you need to do to set up a fake ID. You buy a credstick for the new ID at the rating you want. I'm also assuming you can set up lifestyles for that new ID.

What I'm wondering is, when that credstick gets used, how to verify whether it's a forgery or not.

I guess what I'm unclear about, and haven't found any information that gives something of a guide, is when rolling on the check, how do you determine what the credstick reader's level is.

Is there a guide that I've missed that gives a suggestion? I imagine the more upscale the establishment, the higher the credstick reader's rating. But, is there a guide, or has anyone come up with guidelines, for what type of place will have what rating of reader/verification system?

Thanks in advance.

Pinnocchio

And I'm an idiot. Totally misread your post (I originally gave the mechanics, you're looking for "what place has what rating reader"). Sorry about that.

It's very possible that what I wrote originally wasn't very well worded.

I actually got halfway through the post, then thought of another place to look. I hadn't looked at the actual gear description for the credstick verifiers. When I checked though, there wasn't really anything.

I don't have access to all my books right now, but should when I get home. I just have a copy of the main book here at work. I'm hoping that in one of the books it gives at least a couple examples.

Pinnocchio

A fake ID is generally associated with a SIN which is bought at a particular rating (in the Running the Shadows section, I think, NOT in street gear where it should be). Generally a credstick is associated with a SIN, but not always. Many credsticks rely on no method of identification, and thusly are a preferred tool for runners.

If you have bought a credstick and it has legitimate funds, the test for a forgery only really comes up when your SIN is checked. For practical purposes, that's when a system will try and ID you and actually cares about the result (so police, big buys, stuff like that). There's no reason why the stuffer shack cares if you're Joe Blow or Sarah Johnson, as long as you have the cash to pay for what you're taking. Like I said, it'll basically only come up when there's a reason to check your ID, so when extending credit or doing banking or making some sort of large purchase, as well as when pulled over by the police, trying to enter a restricted area, so on and so forth

When your SIN is put to the test, the tester will have some sort of SIN reader with a rating. The SIN reader at the stuffer shack is 2 or below (if anything). Cops I believe are closer to the 4-5 level, banks are around 6-8. It's basically an opposed roll (if memory serves) - they roll the rating of the credit checker with a TN of your fake SIN, you roll the fake SIN with a TN of the credit checker. Whoever gets more successes wins. 0 successes indicates an 'error' and the guy will generally try again.

Cops have a rating 4-5 ID checker at the station, but their portable (or in-car) ones will be closer to the rating 2-3 range.

Thank you very much for the info. I'd picked up a lot of that from the book, but my main question was in what level of verifier you'd have to pit your fake ID against if it got checked.

Those ranges make sense to me, and goes along with the idea that those groups with more at stake will have the higher rated verification systems. I imagine a credstick verifier at a Customs station would probably also be in the 6-8 range that a bank is at, if my thinking is correct.

Was the suggested range published anywhere Or has this discussion come up before?

Pinnocchio

The reader ratings are given in The Neo-Anarchist's Guide to Real Life on page 103.

Thank you very much! I'll have to take a look in my copy when I get home. Though, I guess it's mainly because I'm curious.

I decided to start up an SR3 game with my regular group, and have been working through outlines for some scenarios. One of my goals is to not have to go to the books very often, so knowing where stuff is is a great help.

Pinnocchio

I'd assume a customs station in most places would be lower than a bank. After all, if a bank is defrauded, it's their money they lose. Customs offices aren't losing much of anything.

I think sprawl survival guide also covers this sort of thing quite well if memory serves. I know it gives alot of advanced rules for SINs and lifestyles.

But yeah your fake SIN shouldnt be under much risk for the normal day to day type things. Infact the lack of them might draw abit of attention. Generally though to be more or less realistic about it, just have it actually roll against the SIN in cases where your ID would be checked against somethign IRL.

Going to the bank for a large loan etc (daily banking pays no real attention beyond what the card says the account number an dpassword is usually. Which is why if you steal some one's bank card and get the pin you can drain it dry, even if you walk in and do it with a real live assistant.)

General expected billpayments etc is real easy. Buying a car or some other expensive item might be abit more iffy depending on circumstances. A car for example would have to have certain information associated with your ID etc. But really only a 'serious' ID check really calls for an actual roll.

Buying a car or renting living space generally depends on long-term payments, and so they're going to put a lot of money in making sure that cash doesn't walk. If you're paying the whole amount in cash up front, it'd be different.

Hmm....this small thread has actually been quite good, while ive always bought fake SINs for my characters they never really came into play unless for those big or restricted purchases(cars, etc), but now i have an idea how to use them.


Another question...Certified Credsticks. When can you use these, and when can't you? Im getting the idea this is just basically 'cash in your pocket', so its not traceable like a credstick. Im guessing riding a bus, buying crap from the Stuffer Shack, Mchugh's, etc, could be done with certified cred...but the things aformentioned like cars, etc. would need the actual credstick(with SIN, etc)....am i off here?

IMO, you can use certified cred for anything someone would let you pay cash for without seeing ID in real life.

~J

I'm pretty sure using the Cert Credstick will raise some eyebrows if purchasing certain items. Like paying for a vehicle with 4-5 cert credsticks. (IIRC, you cant consolidate cred from one stick to the other without a credstick reader of some sort) Also, anything with a R or F legallity will do the same if paying with credsticks, though this is through a normal store and not the black market.

Agreed for large purchases. I've heard stories of bank robbers being caught because they were dumb enough to buy a brand new car with cash. The dealer called in to check, cops checked it out, guy went to jail.

The book explicitly gives the example of lifestyles. Unless you're buying low (or below) or luxury, ID checks are basically required. Legally you can't make any major purchases without a SIN, so imagine anything more than $1,000 and anything sold by certain retailers (I imagine most major chains) will prompt for a SIN (which is why we have some legal items with street index or availability).

Which is kinda weird, since it means that the Spikes should have crap security.

~J

I don't think it applies if you have someone with the skills to install security equipment yourself. You just need to buy the parts through the normal channels. Assumedly someone in the Spikes has this knowledge.

Thanks for the cert cred info...i had a notion in the back of my head thats how it went, but it seems like the man likes to check some things that we take for granted these days, when it comes to purchasing. But i think that using a RL ratio of ID checks would work.


And DV, i totally know what you mean...when someone purchases a Fake ID...they might as well call it 'Fake Lifestyle' because that's what it turns into.

I mean, i suppose having a low end fake credstick ID could come in handy for say, going to a club or something.(ie, like a RL fake id, where they would have equivalent to a 'guy at the door' or just a little reader.) But anything more than that, and its time to set up the fake lifestyle. For Face types or the like, or anyone who thinks they need more than one, keeping up two false lifestyles can get quite interesting. Suggested you try to split this down a couple of cities, because if you, 'klaus bernheardt' and 'jonas ericsson' happen to all live in Seattle and look like you things get interesting.

I usually play characters not from UCAS..but they typically have one fake lifestyle, which could be country of origin or UCAS. If from UCAS, they usually have another lifestyle in another country, and if im heavy on the resources, a third somewhere. Its excellent idea to have a few cover ups...but i can say maintaining three different lives can turn anyone sane into Multi-Personality Harry.

That's assuming you're doing all the legwork yourself. There are people (what's the term, used shoe salesmen?) who set everything up for you. They're the ones who set the price for the initial fake ID, and I don't think it's hard to believe that they could maintain that ID if it's unused. After all, all they need to do is add 'previous balance' lines to a few poorly guarded databases every month.