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Just got to thinking about how the PetroChempire situation seems to have staggered in teh Sixth World, but, at the same time, there's still activity in the middle east an oil getting pumped. From where I have *no* idea, but, they're scraping those barrels.

The question is, then; What are the cars being powered by?

Biodisel? Hydrogen? Rechargable batteries? Still chugging gas?

Anybody know?
My guess would be electric, fuel cells, and biodiesel.
Most of them in Seattle are run on batteries powered through induction from the city ran GridGuide. Though you can still get vehicles that are ran using some form of fuel burning. I'm pretty sure they have moved past petrol and are using some sort of alternative like hydrogen or some organic type fuel.
Before the first Crash there was (is) a large petrol/car company "conspiracy" to keep cars running on gas. The Crahs fixed all that. IMO, (and not based on anything in the books, which I don't have that many of) anyway.

After that, well, my guess is the newcomers tried to reduce the importance of fuel as quickly as possible in order to undermine the old-timers' powerbases.
SL James
There are solar cells in SR3 that can keep almost any ground-based vehicle running indefinitely (though it doesn't account for Seattle being one of the most cloud-covered cities in North America, but logic and SR vehicle rules have never gone together). Otherwise, there's GridLink (GridGuide is what navigates cars), which is tied into the city's fusion and renewable energy production systems. Methane has also been used, but petroleum products are also still used for certain vehicles (planes, mostly) based on some sort of excuse about thrust or power usage. But generally speaking, while the world has long-since passed the Hubbert Peak, it has not run out of oil. Plus, there is coal gasification. The United States currently has enough coal to last until approximately 2175, and most of it is within the UCAS. Canada, IIRC, has quite a bit as well.

There is a lot about oil production that was assumed and then glossed over from the beginning in keeping with the whole cyberpunk genre, and SR's never really done a good job of covering petroleum politics (e.g., how Saeder-Krupp miraculously became the king of the middle east while most of the largest corporations are still in existence and without the House of Saud selling them the entirety of ARAMCO).
I don't have a book at work with me, but I'm pretty sure it says that they're run on electricity unless otherwise noted.
In the books and references in game, virtually everything is electric. I think one book mentioned a powered grid but all vehicles had batteries as well. Several books reference a road grid for autopilots.

I think you could get bio-diesel versions of everything pretty easy.

The latest solar cells today are a lot more effecient than than a few years ago, but still can't generate a lot of power per sqr/meter. Certainly not enough to run even a sub-compact car.
In previous editions, the most common internal combustion engine fuel was Methanol. So... if you want consistency with SR cannon, that's your common liquid fuel.

Methanol isn't something that there's much support for as a fuel IRL, but it would be pretty easy to imagine some cheap bacterial technique that just happened to generate it really cheap.
Soylent Ork?! ork.gif


SL James
You have to do something with creatures that birth in litters.
Heh, Tell that to my brother Darl and my other brother Darl smartass. ork.gif

I know grocery getters are mostly electric but I'm thinking that most of the heavier vehicles need more torque. [edit] I mean more torque for extended periods of time of course.[/edit] If Arsenal deals with those kinds of details and it has stuff like the Nordcap road trains (fingers crossed) I'm betting we'll see alot of internal combustion. Either that or all the free power from shadowrun fusion reactors and japanacorp microwave satalite power transmiters makes a hydrogen economy feasable.

I've always wondered what shadowrun batteries are capable of. Maybe arithmeticly inclined persons like FrankT or Demerzel could reverse engineer the SR3 lazer weapons and tell us how much power their batteries can store.
Well consider today you can buy a sports car with rediculous torque at zero RPMs and still get 250 miles per charge.

See: Tesla Motors.

While I don't generally like to extrapolate today's technology into SR on principal (They are different universes), batterey technology has a lot of room for growth.
in my campaign it is either electric or BioDiesal. BioDiesal engines will run just about forever as long as you keep them full of oil and you dont do anything stupid. a BD car engine in a regular "VW"/Honda/Toyata type care will get 250k miles at a minimum. And get north of 40mpg. Semi trucks can get 250k easily, generally north of 300k.

just my opinion...
dog -

What corp is making a shit-ton of money on Biodiesel sales?

The problem with Biodiesel is that we don't know an easy way to make it without taking up a shitload of space yet. I guess in 2070 you could set up some compact electricity -> hydroponics -> algae plant, but I think there's still an extra step from there over methanol. My guess is that in 2070, if diesel engines are common they'll normally be running off of diesel from coal rather than diesel from soy or microorganisms - it's just cheaper.
SL James
QUOTE (OneTrikPony @ Dec 24 2006, 03:39 AM)
I've always wondered what shadowrun batteries are capable of. Maybe arithmeticly inclined persons like FrankT or Demerzel could reverse engineer the SR3 lazer weapons and tell us how much power their batteries can store.

A previous freelancer did that a long time ago, but his SR page is currently down. The most relevant link I could find is this.
QUOTE (OneTrikPony)
I've always wondered what shadowrun batteries are capable of. Maybe arithmeticly inclined persons like FrankT or Demerzel could reverse engineer the SR3 lazer weapons and tell us how much power their batteries can store.

The assorted EE type I deal with elsewhere are suggesting that batteries will be replaced with super capacitors well before this point. The cool thing is capacitors are capable of dumping their entire charge in a tiny amount of time. Can you say "energy grenade"?
I'm pretty sure I already suggested those, as a form of EMP grenade. A super capacitor discharging through an electromagnetic series.
my guess would be a kind of biodiesel/metanol+capitator/battery with gridlink unduction and/or solar backup.

as in, the wheel will be directly powered by electrical engines, but where said electricity comes from could be any number of sources. and most likely more then one pr vehicle.

you have diesel or methanol for long haul, with battery or capitator storage (kinda like the prius or whatever). when within a city you can go gridlink on the main roads, saving fuel and recharging the batteries at the same time.

hell, it may even be that your engine can burn methanol and diesel interchangeably...
QUOTE (OneTrikPony)
Soylent Ork?! ork.gif



I was *wondering* if anyone'd catch that or not. smile.gif

As for the cars, GridLink's fine for innercity drivers, but, when you have interstate commerce, such as trucking interests, or off-grid drivers like many zero zones or the backwoods (Yes, Virginia, there's life outside the 'Plex!), there's gotta be something.

If only because having Joe and Kimiko Corp wander into teh Bad Part of town, where motorcycles belch fire and roar around ... well, that's just too good of an image to mess with. It just isn't the same when the Ork gang comes gliding up on Segueways.

*bzzzzzzzzzt* "Out of our turg, breeders!" *bzzzzzzzzzzzt*
QUOTE (Wakshaani)
*bzzzzzzzzzt* "Out of our turg, breeders!" *bzzzzzzzzzzzt*

Is that a combination of burg and turf in City Speak, or is it Or'zet for Candy Store?
I see nothing to indicate that the vehicles of 2070 are powered any differently than the vehicles of 2064. Paraphrased from Rigger 3:

Electric Batteries - Low performance but cheap
Electric Fuel Cell - Better performance than batteries; uses hydrogen to generate electricity
Methane - Popular in the NAN and other eco-friendly places
Gasoline - Primary source for most ground and air vehicles, and some aircraft. Restricted in the NAN and some metroplexes
Diesel - Better for large vehicles
Jet Turbines - Usually for aircraft, but some ground vehicles use them too.
Nuclear (fission OR fusion) - Naval vessels and space stations only
Damn! And I wanted a nuclear-powered Harley. frown.gif
QUOTE (Fortune @ Dec 24 2006, 08:38 PM)
Damn! And I wanted a nuclear-powered Harley. frown.gif

"Gasoline is harmful to both living beings and the atmosphere, as your people discovered. I have installed a Minbari power source instead. Clean and efficient."
-- Lennier, Babylon 5, Season 1, "Eyes"
QUOTE (Fortune)
Damn! And I wanted a nuclear-powered Harley. frown.gif

I'm pretty sure a viable reactor that small is impossible, unless nuclear power is vastly different in 2070. But it would have been sorta cool.
hell they experimented with real life nuclear powered aircrafts and cars.

problem was that unless you wanted to kill the market (literary) the amount of lead shielding made the power to weight impractical at best.

Just a thought, but one reason why everyone has to eat soylent ork, or more commonly soy-everything, could be that so much landmass is taken up with fuel crops, for the manufacture of bio-diesal, or whatever. It certainly would leave a lot for cattle farming, etc.
Oddly enough, a leading beacon for biodesel is from, I kid you not, chicken feathers.

There's work being done with new sorting technology that can slit the fibrous portion of teh feather from the 'stem', and feathers, currently a major source of irritation as a waste product, could become five to ten times as valuable as teh chicken's meat.

Biofuel from chicken feathers.

Might have it in three years.
Damn and here I am allergic to chicken feathers...
Soylent chicken feathers? silly.gif

Anyway, that's a really cool piece of info, Wakshaani. And a new awesome location for a shadowrun: The chicken farm (or manufacturing plant, I don't think animal rights or free-ranging chickens are that important). Oh, and dedicated chicken departments in corporations. nyahnyah.gif
Yeah, they've got a way to make teh fibrous part into fiberboard and are just getting the proceedure down in price a bit. In a couple years, they could be replacing fiberglass insulation and car bodies with chicken feather versions of the same.


Did I mention that agriculture is shockingly cool?
There's a number of different alchohol and biodiesel processes that are being developed, including trees. NYC is experimenting with this. I believe the 'waste" wood pulp can be used as filler in various paper products.

For game terms, I generally assume that econo-vehicles rely on GridLink (itself fed by one of the fusion generators or solar satellites), standard vehicles run on "gasahol" (alchohol, liquid propane/methane, whatever is cheapest locally), econo-cargo vehicles (local delivery, busses, etc) are gasahol hybrids, with heavy cargo being (bio)disel and performance gasoline. The basic assumption is that in a world where global shipping can be screwed up by a couple of hungry meta-beasts, regionalized fuel/power production becomes a necessity.

The use of soy became common because the US-NAN wars decimated lots of NorthAm agribusiness while VITAS slaughtered lots of the farmers & livestock worldwide. Soy is pretty easy to produce worldwide, can be processed in automated factories into most forms, and is easily stored & distributed in comparison to meat. Soy can also be used to produce biodiesel.
What do cars, in the year 2070, run on?
.............Hopes and dreams?
Wheels, Streets? biggrin.gif
There are currently solar cells today that are ~75% effecient and full spectrum. I forgot which brand this was. There is also a "solar cell paint".

Fun stuff. If I get the money to biuld my own house and can afford these cells on my roof I'm all there. The car too.... but with the paint...

Now if only I could remember where I saw those articles...
Found that article Here.
QUOTE (Xenith)
Found that article Here.

Awesome article! As an engineer IRL I have always been skeptical of the mass use of solar power becuase of the efficiency issues. Now, I will have to rethink that.
How about a car that runs on Ed Begley Jr.'s sense of self-satisfaction?
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