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kerbarian
This seems a little odd...

p.162 of the BBB says that drones attack using Pilot + Targeting. Later on the page, it says that with passive sensor targeting, Sensor substitutes for Pilot, and signature modifiers apply. So does that mean that drones can choose to attack without sensors (Pilot + Targeting) or with sensors (Sensor + Targeting)? How exactly is a drone targeting when it's not using sensor targeting?

Also, the current FAQ says that jumped-in riggers must use sensor targeting. Why would the drone itself be able to attack without using sensor targeting, but a jumped-in rigger can't? Because sensor targeting is so poor (typically 0 net dice for sensor 3, -3 signature vs. metahuman or drone), that means that drones will be more effective attacking on their own than when they're controlled by a jumped-in rigger.

Am I reading something incorrectly here?
Jaid
drones cannot attack without sensor targetting. pilot + targetting is used when they are making active sensor based targetting tests, which simply add dice to your dice pool iirc. pilot + targetting is otherwise not generally used.

and passive targetting might not be a bad idea, it's just not much use for shooting at metahumans. cars, buildings, and other such targets would be much easier to hit.

additionally, iirc drones can *share* active targetting. so with a single drone who actively targets (ie a spotter), you can have all your drones actively targetting someone.

or, better yet imo, you have a drone with smart firing platforms built into it's weapon mounts, thus making each drone much more effective; if you're ambushing, they can teamwork an active targetting test between the body and the gun. if you're ambushed, the body does an active target (if necessary) or full dodge, while the gun starts shooting. the body can make vehicle tests while the gun is still shooting. the gun can make sensor tests while the body is driving around. additionally, if you load up stuff like ECM the gun can use that while the body drives. and so forth.

all kinds of cool toys smile.gif
Serbitar
1. The pilot attribute is only then used, when the mental or physical attributes of a rigger were used when he was doing the test.

2. Per RAW Sensor substitutes agility in gunnery test (why?, sensor is intuition)

My recommendations:

Completely skip passive sensor gunenry tests. Shooting has nothing to dow ith perception (at least not in SR4) but with coordination. Thus I recommend to roll pilot + gunnery (autosoft) for drones and use the normal rules (no -3 for human sized objects).

Active sensor gunnery test add dice to the "real" gunnery test. Thats how things work in SR4. Visibility (or sensor log on) provides or takes dice from a later gunnery test. The sensor or perception test is rolled with intuition/sensor and the gunnery test with agility/pilot.
In the active sensor test, the -3 signature modifier can be applied.


Fazit: Skip Passive sensor gunnery, roll with agility(pilot) + gunnery (sharpshooter) to hit and use active sensor tests (using sensor) to give more dice to the actual gunnery test.

Broadcasting the ballistic log on information (the added dice) from drone to drone is a very good idea.
hobgoblin
interestingly that bit about drones using pilot+targeting autosoft under gunnery use the word "wielding". it makes me suspect that maybe its a special case rule for when a drone with arms pick up a rifle or similar.

the passive and active sensor rules are the ones used for when a weapon is bolted to the vehicle or drone.

all in all i would rather ignore the bit under gunnery then the passive targeting bit (how often will a drone pick up a gun after all?). the passive targeting rule makes sense as a mounted weapon thats targeted using pistons or electric motors will have more or less perfect agility all the time.

and at that point perception becomes a much bigger limit on ones ability to hit then agility.

still, active targeting will be the best option if available and your not worried about stealth (active sensor targeting rely on sending out EM or other energy and reading the echo after all. it basically shouts to anyone interested that there is a detector in the area. hell, there are special air to ground missiles that rely on just that for taking out sam sites and radars irl).
kerbarian
QUOTE (Serbitar)
1. The pilot attribute is only then used, when the mental or physical attributes of a rigger were used when he was doing the test.

2. Per RAW Sensor substitutes agility in gunnery test (why?, sensor is intuition)

...

Fazit: Skip Passive sensor gunnery, roll with agility(pilot) + gunnery (sharpshooter) to hit and use active sensor tests (using sensor) to give more dice to the actual gunnery test.

Broadcasting the ballistic log on information (the added dice) from drone to drone is a very good idea.

Okay, so the options are:

Passive sensor targeting, which means you'd shoot with sensor + targeting for drones or sensor + gunnery for a rigger or

Active sensor targeting, which takes a simple action of sensor + clearsight for drones or sensor + perception for riggers. Once you have a lock on the target, you can attack with pilot + targeting for drones or response + gunnery for riggers (plus net hits from the sensor test)

Is that correct?

Since the sensor test takes a simple action, what's a good thing for the drone to do with its other simple action? It can't shoot right away, because that takes a complex action. Can you attempt a second sensor test and improve your target lock if you get more net hits the second time?

Also, I don't see anything in the rules about drones being able to share bonus dice from target lock-on with each other. Where is that?
Jaid
QUOTE (kerbarian)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Dec 25 2006, 11:18 AM)
1. The pilot attribute is only then used, when the mental or physical attributes of a rigger were used when he was doing the test.

2. Per RAW Sensor substitutes agility in gunnery test (why?, sensor is intuition)

...

Fazit: Skip Passive sensor gunnery, roll with agility(pilot) + gunnery (sharpshooter) to hit and use active sensor tests (using sensor) to give more dice to the actual gunnery test.

Broadcasting the ballistic log on information (the added dice) from drone to drone is a very good idea.

Okay, so the options are:

Passive sensor targeting, which means you'd shoot with sensor + targeting for drones or sensor + gunnery for a rigger or

Active sensor targeting, which takes a simple action of sensor + clearsight for drones or sensor + perception for riggers. Once you have a lock on the target, you can attack with pilot + targeting for drones or response + gunnery for riggers (plus net hits from the sensor test)

Is that correct?

Since the sensor test takes a simple action, what's a good thing for the drone to do with its other simple action? It can't shoot right away, because that takes a complex action. Can you attempt a second sensor test and improve your target lock if you get more net hits the second time?

Also, I don't see anything in the rules about drones being able to share bonus dice from target lock-on with each other. Where is that?

well, so far as i know, there's nothing keeping a drone from using the simple action to take aim, although if you use my drone with 'turret' idea above, your GM could rule that the part making the shot is the only one who can take aim...


as far as the information about sharing targetting information, i do remember reading about it, but i can't find it in a quick check... possibly it's either something i falsely remembered (though it appears that serbitar may also be remembering the reference, which is promising, but then he may just be assuming i'm right nyahnyah.gif ), and possibly it's in some weird random place... i may have to read through the entire rules to find it :\
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