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How would you handle concealing a cyberweapon? I'm building a character with a shockhand on an obvious cyber arm and am just curious how easy those are to spot. The same would go for how obvious is a cyberpistol with just it's barrel or a hidden clip port showing on the surface.

Did I just miss it in the book or do they never actually bring up concealment other than noticing a smuggling compartment?

Also, is it possible to get a obvious cyber arm but get a synthetic hand/lower arm to keep it somewhat hidden with long sleeves? Just reduce the arms capacity by the difference between synthetic and obvious components. For example with just the hand reduce the capacity by two to 13, or with the lower arm to 10. That would still give you 2 more capacity than a full synthetic arm but if you are shirt/sleeveless your artificial arm is still obviously cyber.

On a semi related note, do skinlinks work with cyberlimbs?
Obvious limbs: "These implants are immediately recognizable as artificial unless the character covers them with clothing..."

Synthetic Cyberlimbs: "A perception + intuition (3) test is necessary to visually detect a synthetic limb... synthetic limbs are obviously artificial to the touch."

The problem is that we have no listed correlation to the concealability table (BBB, pp. 302)
You might assume that the Concealability Modifier for a synthetic limb is 0 because synthetic limbs modify the threshold for successes not the die pool of the observer. Based on that ruleing you have to determine how much more obvious are obvious cyberlimb systems based on how you want them to look in your world.

I would suggest that stock obvious systems are not alot more obvious when covered. (this would have to mean that the obvious limb is completely covered such as wearing a glove in the case of a cyber arm.) Remember that no test is needed to notice a cyberlimb when it is uncovered; no test required. When it's covered I'd set the Concealability modifier at +4. I would additionaly allow the -2 modifiers for gear such as the long coat.

To me the rules seem to assume by default that the limb is uncovered so I'd say that the concealability modifier for a covered synthetic limb would be -2, additionaly modified for items such as the long coat.

I'd say that mixing synthetic/obvious parts is doable by the rules in the BBB but that might be complicated by rules enhancements coming out in Augmentation

As to concealing enhancements and built in devices. All of these reqire capacity in the limb. This means that items that are entirely internal do not change the concealability of the limb and use the same concealability for visual detection as the limb. The exception would be the external clip port, which is notably called external use your best judgement here.

Concealment against scanners: (BBB, pp. 254-255)
I find it inconcieveable that there are no metalic parts in a cyber limb. implant blades can be made of carbond composites so there are no issues there but implant guns and shock hands must be partly mettal considering the price you pay for them. So against MAD scanners one hit tells all, (or atleast tells that something unnatural is present.)

Cyber ware scanners are weaker but still detect any ware easily as well as identifying the exact loacation and type of implant with base hits. Because any devices installed in a limb have to be the same grade as the limb; alpha, beta, delta, you can increase the threshold the scanner needs to hit to see anything.

One question that I have; Is cyber scanning an ALL OR NONE test. If you have a deltaware synthetic limb but you have a standard grade datajack does a single hit expose all of your ware?

I would propose that the test need be made for each grade of ware a subject possesses or better a single test be made and high grade implants be exposed only if enough successes are rolled on that test.

i.e. standard datajack, alpha synthetic arm, beta cortex bomb, delta implant pistol
Scanner rating 6 +2 (4 implants) = 8 die ~ 2.66 hits
so most often this scanner will not detect the cortex bomb or the implant pistol

[edit 2] skin links wouldnt work with cyberlimbs but they wouldn't have to since the limb is wired stock all you'd need is to say that the skinlink is run through the limbs usual interface.
Damn. Some did they're homework.

OTP has tons of stuff written up on cyberlimbs, which is why he pops in on every cyber thread lately. biggrin.gif

Hey, Atleast I know who to turn to for my new charactor. Can you say "Damn near cyber zombie"? cyber.gif
QUOTE (fistandantilus3.0)
OTP has tons of stuff written up on cyberlimbs, which is why he pops in on every cyber thread lately. biggrin.gif

It's like I can't help myself. I might be the "Church Lady" of cyberware bible thumping biggrin.gif
Jack Kain
Baggy clothing would conceal cyberlimbs fairly well.
Concidering how ilegal weapons in cyber limbs are its sage to assume there well concealed. Near a level of how Vash hid a gun in his cyberarmin Trigun.
Ok, so with a synthetic hand on a obvious cyberarm lowering the capacity by 2 (the difference between obvious and synth hands) would work? Would probably increase the price the same way. And in noticing that the exposed hand is cyber is the same as the perception + intuition (3) in the book. To notice that the arm is obvious cyber when covered is the same check but add 4 more dice just for the arm to get over the (3) threshold?

What about noticing the shock pads on a exposed hand. The shock pads are external and to be useful you couldn't wear gloves or take a simple action to remove the glove (also to use a skin link). I can't imaging the shock pads being brushed aluminum or anything so obvious but actually fairly stealthy.

Since you have done so much homework, and I don't see it explicitly stated in the bbb, are cyberlimbs subject to off handedness and ambidexterity? Probably stated in a third edition book but not in 4th core.
Catharz Godfoot
It doesn't seem like obvious or synthetic arms are any better or worse at concealing weapons inside. It either looks like a normal arm or a fake arm. As for the gun, "to meet their stalthy requirements, most of their parts are made from non-metalic compounds, while the remaining metalic parts are incorporated into the cyberlimb's structure" (page 336).

I'd imagine the shock pad on a synthetic arm as being small wires extending from under the finger nails, but that's cause I've looked at CP2020 cyberware. You can, of course, come up with any explanation you like. Regardless, you can probably only detect the weapons with good cyberware scanners. MAD scanners would just state the obvious ('this guy has cyberware').

If I really wanted to disguise a cyberlimb, I wouldn't make it synthetic. I'd cover the damn' thing in nanopaste and have someone with a good skill bonus program it.
QUOTE (yoippari)
Since you have done so much homework, and I don't see it explicitly stated in the bbb, are cyberlimbs subject to off handedness and ambidexterity? Probably stated in a third edition book but not in 4th core.

This is more a function of your brain than the limbs themselves. As such, cyberlimbs should have no bearing on 'handedness' or ambidexterity.
What fortune said.

As to the electrodes in a cyberlimb shock hand. There are no rules to indicate that a shock hand modifies visual concealability, assume that it doesn't. Don't let the tech of last century guide your intuition about the mechanics of shadowrun. The contact areas of the shock hand only need to be good conductors. This can be accomplished by any number of materials such as gells. Assume they can look feel and perform as the other skin analogs covering the limb. If you need a write up combine the CP2020 idea with a more refined interface.

"the cybershockhand works by transmiting a high voltage electrical charge through a gell like substance secreted through the poors of the synthetic skin at several special contact areas."
QUOTE (OneTrikPony)

"the cybershockhand works by transmiting a high voltage electrical charge through a gell like substance secreted through the poors of the synthetic skin at several special contact areas."

That's clever. But how about the Spiderman approach. Two or more little contacts / spikes emerge from the palm when striking through which the current is transmitted. Maybe not as large a contact area as the gel, but less messy and able to penetrate through average clothing, coat sleeves, etc.

Personally I like to envisage shock pads in a synthetic hand as four small round metal contacts in the pads below each finger. Not for any engineering reason, but simply because it looks good. Would be hard to notice usually, but visible on inspection.
It's a theme that we, as GM's, need to think about. The spiderman/CP2020/incrediblycumbersomandintrusivemetalcontacts/gell aproaches, we should have them all. They all do the same thing. Creating fluff to support a new piece of gear that has function beyond what we have in SR4 cannon is one thing--you have to be carefull with the fluff. But when you're just adding an explination for rules that we allready have the player and GM should have some leway to be creative.

Creativity is a must, especialy with the tech side of the game. It's extremely important that while we try to create a rationale for things that are "real" (as opposed to the fantacy elements of the game) that we don't end up nerfing our ware.

Thanx for the "clever" comment. That's apprieciated smile.gif

[edit] I enjoyed the Rigger2/3/3.5 approach where each vehicle stat block had 3-5 names. We didn't need single integer variations for each vehicle stat but we riggers had hours of IC arguments over the merrits of the Cessna C750 vs the Ares Mercury around my game table. The Dev's expanded the world of rigging 4 fold simply by adding a "similar models:" line to the fluff text and I was inspired to create a rigger NPC who's only purpose was to contradict and argue with the party rigger at every oppertunity biggrin.gif that was fun.
Silicone pads would work quite nicely as they are conductive.
If you've ever used a Tens unit, you'll know.

Just ramp up the voltage and Amperage and there you go.
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