Help - Search - Members - Calendar
Full Version: Levitate, isn't there anything faster?
Dumpshock Forums > Discussion > Shadowrun
Banaticus
Let's say that there's this uber mage. He has Magic of 10, Sorcery of 10, a Spellcasting Focus of 6, and a specialization in Manipulation spells.

When he makes his Levitate roll (at Force 10), he'd get an average of 9 hits on his roll.

That's 90 meters per minute. Sure, 90 meters sounds like a lot, why it's almost 100! But 90 meters per minute is only 3.3 miles per hour. That's a quick walk. It's not even a run, let alone anything even remotely approaching the 20,500 meters per minute that your average bullet is traveling.

QUOTE
Objects flung into other things should be handled as a Ranged Attack Test (see Fling), inflicting a number of boxes of Stun damage as decided by the gamemaster (especially sharp or dangerous objects may do Physical damage at the gamemaster’s discretion).

WTF, mate? This spell can actually cause damage? What moron couldn't move out of the way of something approaching him at the terrific speed of a quick walk? Better yet, just smack down whatever it is or pluck it from the air and throw it back.

Anyone know if Street Magic has a real fly spell? Something in between the bullet-quickness of Fling and the snails crawl that is Levitate? Something that has he magician going at least 5 miles an hour, maybe even 10 miles an hour?
Serbitar
Please read the rule book before asking question. Thats the second time. Its meters per turn. Or 1.2*hits*magic kilometers per hour
Demerzel
IT's in the Errata to be Force * Hits in Meters per turn.

Force 10 * 9 hits = 90 meters per turn = 30 m/s that's over 60 mph
Serbitar
Errata? Its in my first printing rulebook.
BTW: There is no sorcery of 10.
Demerzel
You said Hits * Magic, the errata says Hits * Force.
Serbitar
Ah, OK, I thought you were referring to the turn/minute issue. Maybe I should start to read more thoroughly.
Demerzel
Sorry I guess I wasn't clear on what I was correcting.

But basically it can be fast. It's not too much to make a supersonic mage figure the speed of sound is roughly 350 m/s but heavily dependant on atmospheric conditions. (344 at Sea Level and 21C).

So if you have a force 12 spirit using movement on the above example mage you'd be going 360 m/s, supersonic.
Banaticus
That's a lot better -- the uber mage is going 67 miles an hour.

Let's look, though, at a Force 4 Fling and Force 4 Levitate spell cast by a mage with a Magic of 6 and a Spellcasting of 6. The drain is the same for both, 3 DV. The hits translate across into a Ranged Combat test just the same.

A flung throwing knife would move (Magic/2=3 * 5 for Extreme range) 15 meters.
A levitated throwing knife would move ((Magic+Spellcasting)/3*Force) 16 meters.

The levitated object moved faster. And the magician was able to not just follow a straight line with it, he was able to precisely maneuver the levitated object, even making it go around corners or reverse direction. Plus levitate allows a magician to rip something out of another person's hand. And levitate can pick up hundreds of times more kilograms than fling can.

I think I had the subject of this thread backwards. Why doesn't everyone pick Levitate? Why would anyone take Fling?
Serbitar
1. because it is force * net hits in levitate as demerzel told you (you are not reading anything at all are you)
2. because the damage in levitate is decided by the game master
3. nobody takes fling, stunbolt is much better
Banaticus
force * net hits in levitate = ((Magic+Spellcasting)/3*Force)
Serbitar
Yes, now youve corrected it, its right.
Thane36425
QUOTE (Serbitar)
Errata? Its in my first printing rulebook.
BTW: There is no sorcery of 10.

That's only if you don't house rule that skill cap out of the way.
ElFenrir
And keep in mind, movement 'upward' is also fairly fast. I think it would be fast enough to not have them realize they are 30 meters above the ground before you 'forget' they are up there and drop the spell.....(well, ok, i think theyd realise it but might have trouble doing anything about it)


grinbig.gif


Serbitar
QUOTE (Thane36425)
QUOTE (Serbitar @ Jan 5 2007, 01:24 PM)
Errata? Its in my first printing rulebook.
BTW: There is no sorcery of 10.

That's only if you don't house rule that skill cap out of the way.

Thats true for every statement about any rule and thus an argument of 0 value.
Jaid
QUOTE (Banaticus @ Jan 5 2007, 01:35 PM)
That's a lot better -- the uber mage is going 67 miles an hour.

Let's look, though, at a Force 4 Fling and Force 4 Levitate spell cast by a mage with a Magic of 6 and a Spellcasting of 6.  The drain is the same for both, 3 DV.  The hits translate across into a Ranged Combat test just the same.

A flung throwing knife would move (Magic/2=3 * 5 for Extreme range) 15 meters.
A levitated throwing knife would move ((Magic+Spellcasting)/3*Force) 16 meters.

The levitated object moved faster.  And the magician was able to not just follow a straight line with it, he was able to precisely maneuver the levitated object, even making it go around corners or reverse direction.  Plus levitate allows a magician to rip something out of another person's hand.  And levitate can pick up hundreds of times more kilograms than fling can.

I think I had the subject of this thread backwards.  Why doesn't everyone pick Levitate?  Why would anyone take Fling?

just to clarify/provide an example why someone might want to use fling instead of levitate, i'll provide the following:

a mage wants to throw a knife at someone, and has both the fling and levitate spells.

if he flings the knife, he has a threshold of 0 for the spell, and a limit of <force> hits. the knife deals damage based on magic attribute, not on spell force, so low-moderate force is not a huge limiter really.

if he levitates the knife, he has a threshold of 1 for the spell (must achieve 1 net hit to lift the object) meaning he has a maximum number of net hits equal to <force - 1>. he has no defined strength damage, and it may take him multiple initiative passes to guide the knife to the target (note that fling requires 1 IP, whereas levitate moves objects on a per turn basis). furthermore, because he is likely to need to sustain the spell, he probably takes a -2 penalty on most rolls during the time he is making an attack. additionally, note that levitate has a movement rate determined by net hits (ie hits beyond the initial threshold of 1/200 kg), not just hits.

so then, for the purposes of throwing stuff at people, levitate probably takes longer, has a lower number of useful hits, requires that you sustain the spell most likely, and has a shorter range, given 1 IP to hit. it also does not define what the strength of the spell is, and i personally would rule that it is either lower than fling or at best based on force, rather than magic. on the other hand it can also be used over multiple rounds, can be placed into a sustaining focus, and the spell has more other uses.

fling deals a specified amount of damage based on magic (not force), gets the object to the target instantly, doesn't require sustaining, and has a higher number of possible hits. on the other hand, it's pretty much only good for one thing...

now of course, if we're talking about, say, throwing a garbage dumpster full of paper at someone, then levitate has the advantage though nyahnyah.gif

[edit] oh, and sorcery 10 (assuming you mean spellcasting 10) can be achieved. it requires a spirit or other critter, though. so if we change the situation to a magician who conjures a force 10 spirit of man, we end up with a fairly similar situation. [/edit]
Butterblume
QUOTE (Banaticus)
I think I had the subject of this thread backwards.  Why doesn't everyone pick Levitate?

I thought everyone did biggrin.gif.

It's the best spell ever. Useful. Versatile. Can't be duplicated well without magic. Works even with magic 1 (well, slowly wink.gif).
Jaid
QUOTE (Butterblume)
QUOTE (Banaticus)
I think I had the subject of this thread backwards.  Why doesn't everyone pick Levitate?

I thought everyone did biggrin.gif.

It's the best spell ever. Useful. Versatile. Can't be duplicated well without magic. Works even with magic 1 (well, slowly wink.gif).

actually, as written levitate is almost useless at force 1. it has an automatic threshold of 1 to lift any object. as such, a force 1 levitate can (and most likely will, given a halfway decent dice pool) hold an object of up to 200 kg in place, if it is already in the air when the spell is cast. that object will have a movement rate of net hits * spell force (note: maximum hits is 1 due to spell force, and a threshold of 1 to affect the object, leaving 0 net hits).

of course, this could still be useful if you have something else to push it around, i suppose, but it's not much good for flying, or for moving objects around purely via levitation.
Butterblume
You can always overcast with force 2 biggrin.gif.

If you ever tried to lift your unconscious troll buddy over a 4m wall, your subcompact car into your livingroom, were thrown from a roof, or or or...
Big D
Levitate+Movement.

A F12 Spirit of Man can haul you, in full gear, a klick every 3 seconds.

While Concealed.
Red
QUOTE (Big D)
Levitate+Movement.

A F12 Spirit of Man can haul you, in full gear, a klick every 3 seconds.

While Concealed.

Awesome, isn't it?

When circumstances demand nothing less, and you've got the power to do it... deserve that kind of performance after winning 3 net hits from a Force 12 Spirit of Man.

Plus, a GM gets a little artistic license and some psychological leverage when the party caster summons a vertible demi-godling to the table. That possibility of 24 physical damage should have somebody sweating.

Make'em sweat!
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.
Dumpshock Forums © 2001-2012