I had thought that the indirect illusion spells were Force-independent, but on further reading I think that observers roll Intelligence versus the spell's Force to resist them. (BBB pg. 183, under Spell Resistance Test, "The target number of the test is the Force of the spell"; BBB pg. 195, under Indirect Illusion Spells, "All indirect illusions are resisted by Intelligence.") Is this correct?

We've had that argument before. I'm still of the opinion that that makes it much too expensive, in cash and Spell Points/Karma, for the benefits it provides. 90,000Y cash and 12 Spell Points is just too much for a probable +2d6. That's starting to get into the range where it's reasonable to just get cyber reflexes and accept a couple geasa to make up the hit in Magic.

No, the Quickness test to avoid slipping on it is TN Force, plus successes/2, also capped at Force.

2D6? How many dice do YOU usually throw into such spells? Especially when anchored into a Sustaining Focus?

Sounds about right for a starting character. Of course, if you merge the spell into one, the drain code goes down, so you're more likely to get more successes. A reaction of 5 seems fairly common for mages, and a skill and pool of 6 as well. Meaning your average character (no totem modifiers, etc) could throw 12 dice at it and end up with a +2d6 most of the time. And even then, he'd have to suck up 2S or 3S drain with ~6 dice. Not much fun, really.

Twinked out mages are more likely to get bigger bonuses, as do high karma mages.

I'm basing my estimates on my current sorcerer PC's starting stats. Int 6, Qui 5, Wil 7, Magic 6, Reaction 5, Sorcery 6, Spell Pool 6. Using all Sorcery and Spell Pool for the casting, I'd be throwing 12 dice at a TN of 5, and averaging about 4 successes. And then I'd get to resist... what was it, 4S Drain? with just Willpower dice, averaging about 3.5 successes. So, yeah, +2d6, and I'd be taking L-M Drain doing it. And odds are higher that I'd miss that fourth success and get a mere +1d6 than that I'd get lucky and make +3d6.

Just a quick FYI, Illusion spells are all or nothing, they don't use Net Successes.

Sphynx

Yea, so this is another semi-independant one.

The force only changes the area of effect. If you want to entertain a whole stadium full of people force 1 won't do, but for more reasonably sized areas it will work fine.

Fashion is fairly force dependant, actually. It's armor rating <= force + 1 per 2 successes. And it's a TN 6 spell. So you generally don't get the boost, and when you do, it's only a point or two.

Healthy Glow had a duration of force x 24 hours, as well, making it force dependant in that sense, at least.

You see to be forgetting the first line of the paragraph on Spell Resistance Test which is: Living Targets always make a Spell Resistance Test against spellls, unless the target of the spell is willing. The target of an indirect illusion spell such as invisibility is in fact a person, most likely a teammate. Unless your teammate is an idiot he is going to be willing to become invisible, therefore there is no resistance test. As far as the line on pg 195 about indirect illusion spells be resisted by intelligence goes, every category of spell has a line like that. It just says what attribute is associated with resisting the spell, but as i said indirect spells are typically targetted on a willing subject it doesn't come into effect. At least that is my interpretation of the rules.

So where are you coming up with the 12 Spell Points and 90,000 nuyen if you're only going to assume getting +2D6? Why get it at Force 6 at all? Just get it at Force 4. Or even Force 3 if you're the type of GM who rounds up (as I do). And worrying about anything less than Deadly drain on a sustaining focused spell? Please.

And whining about such a "massive" cost is silly compared to what every other character has to go through to get a measly +2D6 to their Initiative, too. Let's see, Boosted Reflexes 3 sets you back 2.80 Essence and 90,000 nuyen and a Synaptic Accelerator 2 sets you back 1.0 Bio and 200,000 nuyen. Adepts have to blow half of their Power Points for the priviledge, too (and sure, they get +4 Reaction out of the deal, but still; even just 2 Power Points is a huge cost relatively speaking).

So you have to spend 6-8 Spell Points (out of your 25-35 free ones) and 45-60,000 nuyen for a focus (which you can always rebond for another spell whenever you like; a cheap luxury the other cyber-dependant characters don't have). Boo hoo -- let me go find a tear to shed for such a character...

Buying such a spell and focus at Force 6 when you're only going to average the equivalence of Force 4 is about as wise as buying an SMG instead of a Machine Pistol even though you only have the Pistols skill just because the SMG has the possibility to do more damage.

I don't see this in the BBB, only any target within LOS.

Yup, my group has done this.

The guy was already unconsious (or dead, can't remember), then they cast invis on him and put him in the street. Right before a car hits him, they dropped the spell, the idea being that it now looks like the guy was killed by the car.

"I don't know what happened, officer! One minute the street is clear, and then all the sudden there was a guy in the road! I couldn't stop in time."

(Officer rolls his eyes and gets out his Blood Alcohol analyzer)

My group is scary like that.

Exactly. Directed Illusions are mental illusions - it's all in the heads of the target. There is no physical manifestation. No one sees anything but the target(s). Indirect Illusions, however, do have physical manifestations; they cast/reflect light, make noise, smell funny, taste salty, and feel slimy (whatever). Anyone who can see/hear/smell/etc. the target (or, more accurately, locus) of the spell may be affected. The resistance test is for them, not the locus, whether it is an Invisibility spell cast on a troll, or a Silence spell cast on 10kg of C-4.