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Catharz Godfoot
1) A summoner with Channeling can act freely when possessed.

2) A possessed character has mental & special attributes equal to the spirit's Force.

Does this mean that a summoner with a Magic of 1 can choose to suck up the drain & summon a Force X spirit into himself, and then proceed to bind it using his new Magic of X? And resist the drain with 2X?

'Cause at that point being a magical dabbler is very easy, as is being a viable near-burnout (Essence 1).

You still need a good willpower to resist mana spells (and the killer drain).
RunnerPaul
QUOTE (Catharz Godfoot)
Does this mean that a summoner with a Magic of 1 can choose to suck up the drain & summon a Force X spirit into himself, and then proceed to bind it using his new Magic of X?

Yes, but only for values of X less than or equal to 2.

"No magician may summon a spirit who's force is greater than twice her Magic attribute." p.179, SR4 Core Rules
Catharz Godfoot
QUOTE (RunnerPaul)
QUOTE (Catharz Godfoot @ Jan 9 2007, 11:43 PM)
Does this mean that a summoner with a Magic of 1 can choose to suck up the drain & summon a Force X spirit into himself, and then proceed to bind it using his new Magic of X?

Yes, but only for values of X less than or equal to 2.

"No magician may summon a spirit who's force is greater than twice her Magic attribute." p.179, SR4 Core Rules

Good point, I had forgotten that. So at that level it is really only an issue with characters of magic 3+.


However, it seems that once a character is possessed by a Force 2 Spirit, he can conjure spirits up to Force 4, and so forth.
ShadowDragon8685
I imagine your astral signature will be something like the radiospectrograph of a Tokamak, but that seems sort of legal...
Jack Kain
Well one spirit would leave just prior to the other spirt possessing you.

So say you had a magic 1 and summoned a force 2 spirit that you channelled. So now you can summon a force 4 spirit. But when you attempt to channel it the force 2 spirit must leave before you can channel the force 4. Thus your magic drops down to 1 and the force 4 spirit it two powerful.
Jaid
QUOTE (Jack Kain)
Well one spirit would leave just prior to the other spirt possessing you.

So say you had a magic 1 and summoned a force 2 spirit that you channelled. So now you can summon a force 4 spirit. But when you attempt to channel it the force 2 spirit must leave before you can channel the force 4. Thus your magic drops down to 1 and the force 4 spirit it two powerful.

yeah, but i think it might still work, strictly speaking... more specifically, i believe the limit is on what you can bind or summon, not on what you can have on call.
ornot
I think if anyone wanted to try that in a game I was involved in, I'd kick him in the head for being stupid. Clearly it was never the intention of the developers that a magic 6 mage should summon a force 12 spirit to possess him, and then use the increased power gained to summon a force 24 spirit to possess him.
Cheops
Don't forget 'though that Magic isn't part of the drain resistance. It is Willpower + Something. So just because your magical power is going up rapidly with this tactic your drain will lag behind. The Force 12 will do a massive number on you, let alone the Force 24. Your character would have to be specialized for doing this trick.
Moon-Hawk
I'm with ornot on this one.
If I player came to me with this idea I'd say, "Haha, oh yeah, the letter of the rules does allow that, doesn't it? That's funny. Well, we both know that's obviously absurd, but thanks for pointing it out, here's a point of karma for actually reading and understanding the rulebooks."
note: I'd skip the point of karma if it were a munchy player that did this crap all the time.
Kyoto Kid
...this is a big loophole for if you are possessed and channeling and then summon that force 4, what would stop you from turning around and summoning a higher force spirit after that?

Any PC that attempts this in my game immediately receives a remotely triggered firkin size FAE.

For me, the jury is still out concerning allowing PCs to learn posession traditions.
Catharz Godfoot
QUOTE (Cheops)
Don't forget 'though that Magic isn't part of the drain resistance.  It is Willpower + Something.  So just because your magical power is going up rapidly with this tactic your drain will lag behind.  The Force 12 will do a massive number on you, let alone the Force 24.  Your character would have to be specialized for doing this trick.
Yes, but you take all the mental attributes of the spirit too, meaning that you resist drain with Force+Force.
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)

For me, the jury is still out concerning allowing PCs to learn posession traditions.

I don't think this is explicitly spelled out, but here is my quick fix:
The abuse only applies to channeling. A possessed character normally can't act.
This doesn't mean that the idea channeling is broken.
Just say that a character using channeling is really two minds sharing the same body: When the character acts, he uses his own mental and special attributes. Problem goes *poof*. This is probably how Channeling is intended anyway.
hyzmarca
Channeling a Force 2 spirit to summon a Force 4 spirit is sort of like marrying a rich ugly girl so that you can use her money to attract a rich pretty girl. In the end, they're both going to bitchslap you and kick you in the testicles, both literally and figuratively, repeatedly.

ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE (hyzmarca)
Channeling a Force 2 spirit to summon a Force 4 spirit is sort of like marrying a rich ugly girl so that you can use her money to attract a rich pretty girl. In the end, they're both going to bitchslap you and kick you in the testicles, both literally and figuratively, repeatedly.

Not if you kill the rich ugly girl and hide the corpse well.
BishopMcQ
The trick is to kill her, and summon a spirit to possess her. Preferably one with a personal illusion or glamer spell/power.

Once this is done, you can use the dead thing as bait for other rich and ugly people.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Kyoto Kid)
Any PC that attempts this in my game immediately receives a remotely triggered firkin size FAE.

or deploy the old dumpshock standby. the orbital bovine (think thats the spelling) launcher wink.gif

or in this case, try a blue whale or something silly.gif
FrankTrollman
Every single time you command each spirit you'll be taking Physical Drain because you won't have the higher Magic attribute until after you get possessed by the new one (which won't happen until it's already out of the binding circle).

So yeah, you can go from 1 to 2, from 2 to 4, and from 4 to 8. But each round of summoning and binding is physical drain and if you pass out you'll die. It's risky enough that I'd think getting yourself a Magic Attibute of 4 would probably be easier.

Especially as you Initiate Grade can't go higher than your base Magic Attribute, so you won't be able to have extended masking and channeling unless you bought yourself a Magic Attribute of 3. At which point, what's the point?

-Frank
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