In my offline campaign, I have a player who created a mundane character without any cyberware. In order to survive, he bought an edge value of 8 and a magical resistance of 3. While we play, i realized magical resistance is a quality that awakened character may not take, making me wondering if magical resistance is a passive form of awakening in itself. After a few moves of search-fu, i stumble upon the null adept and the nega-mage. From that moment, i wanted to adapt the rules to fit the 4th edition and to be able to adapt from the magical resistance quality.

NEW POSITIVE QUALITY:

Nega-mage (5 point quality)

A Nega-mage is an awakened character specialized in dispelling magic in all its form. A Nega-mage character starts with a special attribute called Nega-Magic with a rating of 1. A Nega mage is similar to a normal mage except that he cannot cast spells, summon spirits or enchant items. The only awakened skills he can learn is counterspell and banishing. Also, he does not have access to the astral plane. He may bound to counterspelling focus, banishing focus and power focus only. However, like any other awakened character, he may join magical groups (although nega-mage often face prejudice) and initiate like any normal magician. Nega-magic functions as magical resistance for the nega-mage equal to its rating.

The cost to increase nega-magic is equal to normal magic and function just like a magic attribute for skills and it's relation with essence.

NEW METAMAGIC:

Astral Blending (Nega-mage only)
The awakened character astral form is slowly fading away to ressemble those of mundane object: an astral shadow. Any awakened character with a magic equal or lower than the nega-mage initiate grade is unable to assense the nega-mage at all. He appears to be an unliving mundane object to their eyes.

Astral Immunity (Nega-mage only)
Pre-requisite: Astral Blending
The awakened character astral form is almost a shadow. The character is now immune to all Mana Spells with a Force equal or lower than the nega-mage intiate grade.

Astral Ebb (nega-mage only)
The character is a living astral oddness. His only presence in the astral space is enough to modify the ambiant mana level. In a radius equal to the character's Magic times Initiate Grade meters, space is considered a mana ebb with a rating equal to the intiate grade divided by 2 (round up)

Astral Domain (nega-mage only)
Pre-requisite: Astral Ebb, Geomancy
The character is able to modify the ambiant mana level with ease. His ''portable'' mana ebb is now an unaspected domain with an equivalent rating. The character may use it's geomancy metamagic to shift this domain to any aspect he desire.

Comments?

...hmmm, I like.

Been looking for a good foil to mage characters

Wasn't there something like this back in SR2 -3?

Unofficially ... I believe it was in Challenge magazine.

Don't much like the old version, but this is somewhat better. My question would be why these guys are better off than all those other Aspected Magicians, who have to buy both the appropriate positive and negative Qualities?

That was my first thought too, Fortune, that this should be more similar to the Aspected Magicians. You know, in the interest of SR4 streamlining and all.

Of course, the problem with that is I'm not crazy about how aspected magicians work in SR4.

And lo, the Sam of the world rejoiced and turned to the new anti-magic with the 'Latent Awakening' quality.
Question - Would this stack with 'Magic Resistance' quality?

I don't believe awakened characters are allowed to take Magic Resistance in the first place.

EDIT: Nevermind, it says characters with the "magician, mystic adept, or adept qualities," not "awakened."

maybe add a meta technique, where he generates negative magic background count by sucking it out of the surroundings

another thing: make magic cost the same as normal (streamlining and such), but let it function as additional dice for spell defense.

Well, thats why he is called nega-mage

You can still drop a dumpster on him .

Ah, the many uses of the Levitate spell.

NEW METAMAGIC:

Astral Ebb (nega-mage only)
The character is a living astral oddness. His only presence in the astral space is enough to modify the ambiant mana level. In a radius equal to the character's Magic times Initiate Grade meters, space is considered a mana ebb with a rating equal to the intiate grade divided by 2 (round up)

Astral Domain (nega-mage only)
Pre-requisite: Astral Ebb, Geomancy
The character is able to modify the ambiant mana level with ease. His ''portable'' mana ebb is now an unaspected domain with an equivalent rating. The character may use it's geomancy metamagic to shift this domain to any aspect he desire.

Well personally I like the idea, but I think I'd make his anti-Magic stat cost normal without any special perks, and I'm not sure about the Astral Shadow meta-magic, although I imagine that unless the Nega-Mage was able to toggle it on and off it'd be akin to a death sentence.

However, I really like the idea of Nega-Mages using Meta-Magic to become a Mana-Ebb (And in theory possibly a Mana Void at higher power levels.)

Still, his anti-Magic stat should do something in order to encourage players to raise it as well, hmm, possibly allow all Nega-Mages to become Mana-Ebbs/Voids equal to their Initation Grade, but have the range completely dependant on their anti-Magic. I'm thinking something along the lines of 1 meter radius per anti-Magic or something normally with the abitlity to suffer Drain in order to extend it further, either in range or level of the Ebb/Void, but I have no idea how to balance the Drain possiblities...

Nega-magic would also be used to banish spirits and dispel sustained spells...

...I agree, keep the costs the same as for regular mages.

I edited the first post.

The cost for nega-magic is the same as any other attribute, but is essentially the equivalent of a magical resistance quality with a rating equal to its value.

(Mixed with astral immunity, it means only the most powerful magicians are able to use mana spells against him and physical spells have a reducd chance to work...but the dumpster on his head is just as effective).

OOO I like this even more then then what I was trying to cook up..I may have to use this in Saturdays game...nice job!

Oh yeah, nega mage is delicious and will be added to my campaign. I wonder if looking at him astrally is painful?

Thee nega mage as "Someone that barghests shirk away in fear of." Outwardly normal he doesn't have an astral signature so much as a hole where it should be.

Do the metamagics mean that he normally projects a "typical" astral signature?

*twitch* I have a Serious Allergy to Nega-Mage, caused by one of my characters (the same one who enjoyed loading up DMSO/Stim into Ares Squirts to turn mages mundane in one barrage, or kidnap characters, fill them full of 5.98 Essence worth of second-hand datajacks, and then let them go). I'd have to see some seriously quality roleplay to wash the taste out of my mouth.

Ah, nega mage as an actual character class? Yes that'd have to be an incredibly interesting and entertaining character concept to justify that sort of power.

Nega mage as a shadowy magical anomaly that specializes in ruining the lives of mages who attract the wrong kind of attention? Why yes, yes I do think I can find a use for that in a campaign.

I am more for a Counter Aspected mage. Of course, I use Frank Trollman's rules for Aspected magicians. I would say can learn Conjuring and Sorcery (in fact he must learn them to be useful) but can only counterspell and banish. He can assense, but cannot astrally project. I disagree on making this "nega-mage" completely different and counter to full magicians, and I REALLY disagree with the metamagics proposed. This is just my take though.

Also, since this person is awakened (and by RAW, aspected must be Mystic adept or Full Magician), they are in ineligible for the Magic Resistance Quality.

So he'd be more like a walking background count? Except that he can learn how to wield it and control it to some extent?

That'd be a fairly playable character I think.

I like the concept, but will do some editing before I bring it up with the GM. Doubt I will ever play a character like it though. I would do away with the Immunity & Shadow metamagics, and I don't think you can aspect a negative background. Nor is there a point if you could.

This character type seems rather specialized. I can imagine complaints being raised that are similar to those raised about technomancers.

I think there are a few uppity spell slingers in my group that could certainly, ah, "benefit" from an encounter with one of these gentlepeople... how about a metamagic that let's them strip an adept of some powers temporarily?

Sprain, if the person is a walking background count, they automatically strip adept powers if the adept is within the range of the nega-mage's background count.

Excellent point, I'd forgotten about that.

What I wanna know, is what happens when a nega mage gets hit with a mana static?

What if he walks into background count, do they add?

What if he also picks up geomancy, and aspects a background count towards his nega-ness.

Mana Static creates a positive background count. Although not exactly covered by the rules, it would make sense it would negate a negative count on a one-for-one basis. Or you could just use the rules for it overlapping an aspected count, which I do remember there being somewhere.

Overlapping with a natural background count should add the values together - making a negative count worse an canceling out a positive count.

Geomancy would work the same it currently does, and would not help the null mage at all, but would aspect it to a tradition no other mage follows.

I dont know about the rest of you, but a character with walking background count is not a good (as in good/evil) thing. All I can think of that corrupts astral background is Cyberzombies, and by fluff, that is treated as inhuman, disgusting, vile, and evil. I also do not like the idea of a walking mana sink (area with less magic) as that is rare and outside human ability to create (as far as I know). I seriously think that this type of thing should be treated just as any other awakened character, but with range of ability.

Well the vile corruption of cybermancy creates background count from holding mana until it cries. This character is doesn't so much twist mana as negate it by sucking it out of the ambient enviro-

Okay nevermind I bet he's the pawn of some Horror who is currently getting fat on his walking mana siphon.

After some thought:

Null Awakening: This character is a Null Mage - 15 point quality (minimum), can only be taken at character generation.

Null mage's have a negative magic rating, starting at -1, that can be "increased" as any other attribute can. A null mage projects a mana ebb with a rating equal to his magic at all times. The rating is reduced by 1 for every meter away from the mage. (A null with magic of -4 projects a rating -4 ebb out to 1 meter, -3 to 2 meters, and so on).

Can decrease the range with a free action, uses the null's free action each round the decreased range is sustained.
Can increase the range with a complex action. Suffers drain to do so. Can be sustained with a -2 dice pool penalty for a maximum of (magic x 2) combat turns.

Some form of initiation available. Unsure about available metamagics.

Details still need to be worked out, but I think it will work better overall than your original layout. Should probably not be available as a PC quality (higher BP cost may make it available however - needs testing)
I also significantly prefer the name "Null" over "Nega"

I think the tragedy of the nega-mage is that they are, on the grand scheme of things, shitty at resisting magic. This is because a mystic adept with the appropriate powers has access to a higher dice pool at less investment. The mystic adept can add spell resistance, cloak, and piercing senses for some very cheap and efficient and large boosts to dice. The nega mage can only raise his "nega magic." Honestly, if I wanted to make an aspected dispeller, I wouldn't even consider being a nega mage as you've written it. It's just not as good as being a mage or mystic adept focused on counterspelling. The metamagics are cool, but every spellcaster can carry around a much bigger, nastier background count in his pocket, called mana static. And with the advanced version of cleansing, he can slap out a rating 10 mana static and then make himself immune to it, which is just about as good as your metamagics for the nega mage, except the background count level is not limited by init grade.

I think the tragedy of the nega-mage is that they are, on the grand scheme of things, shitty at resisting magic. This is because a mystic adept with the appropriate powers has access to a higher dice pool at less investment. The mystic adept can add spell resistance, cloak, and piercing senses for some very cheap and efficient and large boosts to dice. The nega mage can only raise his "nega magic." Honestly, if I wanted to make an aspected dispeller, I wouldn't even consider being a nega mage as the OP wrote it. It's just not as good as being a mage or mystic adept focused on counterspelling. The metamagics are cool, but every spellcaster can carry around a much bigger, nastier background count in his pocket, called mana static. And with the advanced version of cleansing, he can slap out a rating 10 mana static and then make himself immune to it, which is just about as good as your metamagics for the nega mage, except the background count level is not limited by init grade.

I think the tragedy of the nega-mage is that they are, on the grand scheme of things, shitty at resisting magic. This is because a mystic adept with the appropriate powers has access to a higher dice pool at less investment. The mystic adept can add spell resistance, cloak, and piercing senses for some very cheap and efficient and large boosts to dice. The nega mage can only raise his "nega magic." Honestly, if I wanted to make an aspected dispeller, I wouldn't even consider being a nega mage as the OP wrote it. It's just not as good as being a mage or mystic adept focused on counterspelling. The metamagics are cool, but every spellcaster can carry around a much bigger, nastier background count in his pocket, called mana static. And with the advanced version of cleansing, he can slap out a rating 10 mana static and then make himself immune to it, which is just about as good as your metamagics for the nega mage, except the background count level is not limited by init grade.

Back where I come from I heard rumours of these dreaded "null magicians" neither magicians, nor mundanes.. but something else entirely, are they perhaps a remnant of a past age.. clinging to the realities of the 5th world (or previous editions xD)
btw, all this walking mana voids talk reminds me of someone..
"He is a wound in the Force, more presence than flesh, and in his wake, life dies... sacrificing itself to his hunger."

The Immunity I would have a problem with. It just means that if he has a high magic level he just wins the astral, and I don't like the "you just win" part of anything, and I don't want to cheese all of my NPC mages to be stronger then the nega-mage. As an NPC concept... interesting, as a PC concept waaaay to many things to take into account. Is this nega-mage allowed to summon spirits? Do they aid him and basically walk around with mana-static around them at all times? Is he allowed to cast spirit types? Would he have nega-spirit types? What can he turn on and off at will? Does he take drain? Is he allowed to cast other normal spells or just the ones specific to him? Does the immunity only extend to himself and not the rest of the party? How did this form of mage come to be?

It would also be nice to write some fluff that might describe the creation of these beings, as well as some form of balance. I mean you can already make an counter-spelling mage with absorb, armor, and all sorts of other goodies to create the teams support mage, but making one that is just a total counter to magic in most forms I have a bit of a problem with. This to me really walks the line of weather I would want a PC to play something like this, because when you give a player this kind of option you should expect them to hard cheese the hell out of this.

The one thing that I find interesting if this dude is a walking background count is that he will totally screw up your mages and adepts in your party probably more then he will against the opposition. <-- This I am also not a big fan of either.

However it could make a rather intresting villain.. the more tormented the better

Yes an interesting NPC concept, but as a player concept it just makes me wince, duck and cover, and expect the worst. Also nice KOTOR II reference btw.

Damn it >.< The thing was taking like 10 minutes to upload the post, so I tried it again, and again... and again

Anyway, I think nega-mages would be great threat mages. They just need to be amped up so that they're powerful and scary. And they should have some effect on mundanes as well to make them actually dangerous. Maybe they attract null spirits to their persons, and those spirits materialize and try to mess with the mundanes?

I made a mystic adept build around this for last weekends game..though I came in late to the campaign and spent the other half of it knocked out from gas so I don't know how effective he really is lol.


-Slamm-0!