Serial_Peacemaker
Jan 16 2007, 07:35 AM
Now we all no that there are Hacker tricks to fool around with Smartlinked guns, and other nifty wireless gadgets. Now here is my question lets say you have a complete smartlinked system that is only running skinlinked. Can you set it up so that if someone was to somehow grab your gun since it is not in the smartlinked system they would need to hack it, and then decrypt it in order to use it? If so, this just seems like a smart safety percaution for CorpSex personel to use.
Kesslan
Jan 16 2007, 08:03 AM
Well.. in a short answer. Yes.
Biometic Safety.
It hasnt reappeared in SR4 yet. Assumably though it would in Aresenal. It was introduced in SR3 in the Cannon Companion. Basically a coded chip put in as part of the smartlink system. It would only accept the interface of 'authorized' smartlink systems. You could hack it if you had the time and the tools. Which was really ultmiately a mix of gunsmtihing and electronics.
There was abit of a downside to it though. If some one.. say a corp got ahold of your gun. They could use it to help positively ID you. Since then they would basically have the hard coded "ID Code" of your smartlink ware. And the only way to change that is have the old system surgically removed.
The Biometic Safety also, by the way totally locks up the gun. It cant be fired at all without it. Which also makes wearing gloves while using one problematic. Though by SR cannon (At least going by one of the stories.. it was either in the SR2 rule book or possibly teh lone star book I jsut read recently) thats gotten around simply enough by having a hole in the palm of the glove for the interface pad. Now of course with SR4 you no longer -need- that interface pad. But you -do- need contact with your skin for it to work so the same limitations apply.
Of course, you can allways get around that with the typtical standby. Wires. Their not cool, or pretty. But they are unhackable for all intense and purpsoes. They do of course have other downsides (Such as the wires getting severed). But you can minimize some of them. Such as running the wires UNDER your body armor where/when possible and practical to do so.
You could for example run the wire for your handgun down the sleve of your jacket. But then every time you want to use the gun you'd have to physically plug it in and then unplug it again to holster it.
Also keep in mind. While all these fun things like your smartguns are wireless. They have a VERY limited range. So even if your running off a wireless link for your smartgun. Fors ome one else to hack it they have to have at least a transmitter/reciever within 3 meters of you. Thats.. a really small space. Course it's arguably done with a spy drone. But one with a big enough signal raiting itself to easily allow wireless connection to other things would be rather expensive. And likely rare.
And then you have to -keep- that spydrone or what ever within that 3m radius of the item at all times. Or at least as long as you want to control the item anyway.
Kesslan
Jan 16 2007, 08:04 AM
Oh and on the issue of CorpSex? I think you need a condom. Not a smartlink.
Large Mike
Jan 16 2007, 08:09 AM
Here's an interesting idea for Hackers, since Kesslan inspired it:
Sticky-dart transmission bouncer. Instead of keeping that bouncing spydrone in radius of someone, just attatch the thing to them. I'm sure it could be taken off, but in a firefight, it'll most likely get ignored in favor of bullet-style threats.
Kesslan
Jan 16 2007, 08:27 AM
QUOTE (Large Mike) |
Here's an interesting idea for Hackers, since Kesslan inspired it:
Sticky-dart transmission bouncer. Instead of keeping that bouncing spydrone in radius of someone, just attatch the thing to them. I'm sure it could be taken off, but in a firefight, it'll most likely get ignored in favor of bullet-style threats. |
Might, but I dont consider that -too- likely. Personally I'd be so paranoid in SR of anything lik ethat that I'd rip it off and throw it away first chance. Afterall for all I know it's really some sort of corrosive round (if it aint shocking me). And if it was shocking me, or trying to I'd still rip it off 'just in case' it discharged again.
I think most folk would tear something like that off as an OMG WTF! reaction.
Of course with SR4's wireless tech level. Arguably you could use it like a tracking dart round. ONe that actually imbeds itself into things. Then you wouldnt necessarily even need to hit a runner with it. If you manage to corner them and pin them downin a room? Fire a 'dart' at a wall near a runner. That should easily put it within 3m of em.
But then that begs to question why you didnt just roll in a frag or gas grenade first. Course if you want to minimize damage and the runners prooved immune to gas attacks (Gasmasks, or chemsuits or some such) something like that could be used to maybe lock them out of their own guns. Then your guys can easilyi just walk in and pump em full of gel and stickn shock rounds till they pass out.
Ultimately 6,000+ just aint worth it for the ability to potentially hack some one's gun. It's just.. too limited use. I might see it as a sort of specially available item though for cases where there's hostages and you cant afford a few 'accidental'/'unavoidable' casualties. (Like.. say.. the CEO's wife. Assuming of course that isnt 'arranged' in the first place so he can go bang the CorpSex mistress)
RunnerPaul
Jan 16 2007, 06:48 PM
QUOTE (Kesslan) |
It was introduced in SR3 in the Cannon Companion. |
You mean re-introduced. Because it was introduced in SR2 in the Corporate Security Handbook.
Kesslan
Jan 17 2007, 04:10 AM
QUOTE (RunnerPaul) |
QUOTE (Kesslan @ Jan 16 2007, 03:03 AM) | It was introduced in SR3 in the Cannon Companion. |
You mean re-introduced. Because it was introduced in SR2 in the Corporate Security Handbook. |
AH... yeah sorry forgot about that.
Strobe
Jan 17 2007, 04:50 AM
Assuming they put the induction type datajack back in then you can have your smartlink work through that and have some sort of unique code to wire it to you that you can change if you lose a gun or guns.
-Strobe
Fix-it
Jan 17 2007, 04:57 AM
QUOTE |
There was abit of a downside to it though. If some one.. say a corp got ahold of your gun. They could use it to help positively ID you. Since then they would basically have the hard coded "ID Code" of your smartlink ware. And the only way to change that is have the old system surgically removed. |
crap. you can spoof even "Hardwired" mac addresses from network cards these days.
and if any decker worth his salt can spoof his way through a mainframe, I'm pretty sure he can re-wire a silly little ASIC to open up.
Kesslan
Jan 17 2007, 05:06 AM
QUOTE (Fix-it) |
QUOTE |
There was abit of a downside to it though. If some one.. say a corp got ahold of your gun. They could use it to help positively ID you. Since then they would basically have the hard coded "ID Code" of your smartlink ware. And the only way to change that is have the old system surgically removed. |
crap. you can spoof even "Hardwired" mac addresses from network cards these days. and if any decker worth his salt can spoof his way through a mainframe, I'm pretty sure he can re-wire a silly little ASIC to open up.
|
Yeah but i'm pretty sure that bit is right out of the SR3 CC. Its been a while though since I've looked at it but I know there was some sort of major downside to it like that (At least under SR3. It hasnt reappeared in SR4 yet so who knows what might change)
Otherwise there's practically no reason not to use one. And I'm all about adding all the useful nifty toys to my guns I can. And I -allways- stayed away from the biometic safeties for some reason or other. Actually out of all the folk I've played with over the years. Only ONE I can recall ever actually used them.
cetiah
Jan 17 2007, 05:32 AM
QUOTE (Kesslan) |
Also keep in mind. While all these fun things like your smartguns are wireless. They have a VERY limited range. So even if your running off a wireless link for your smartgun. Fors ome one else to hack it they have to have at least a transmitter/reciever within 3 meters of you. Thats.. a really small space. Course it's arguably done with a spy drone. But one with a big enough signal raiting itself to easily allow wireless connection to other things would be rather expensive. And likely rare. |
While technically this is true, and it varies with GM to GM apparently, I think once your PAN is hacked through its commlink, everything in the PAN can then be messed with, including smartlinks, wrist watches, and color-shifting clothing.
Strobe
Jan 17 2007, 05:35 AM
QUOTE (cetiah) |
While technically this is true, and it varies with GM to GM apparently, I think once your PAN is hacked through its commlink, everything in the PAN can then be messed with, including smartlinks, wrist watches, and color-shifting clothing. |
I can just imagine it now. Giving someone a "Trolls Forever" shirt just outside a humanis protest. Thats one way to get people to disappear.
-Strobe
bait
Jan 18 2007, 02:14 AM
QUOTE |
While technically this is true, and it varies with GM to GM apparently, I think once your PAN is hacked through its commlink, everything in the PAN can then be messed with, including smartlinks, wrist watches, and color-shifting clothing. |
Not necessarily, it depends on what is subscribed to the PAN and if the devices have there own security measures. ( And of course if the other devices are on or not.)
QUOTE |
And the only way to change that is have the old system surgically removed. |
Thats what chip jacks are for, gee corps got my gun and that id tag is not very useful to me. Time to fry this little puppy and get me a new gun.
Serial_Peacemaker
Jan 18 2007, 02:32 AM
Well just for grins I always have a skinlink only com to run smartlinks, vision and audio enhancers. With the WiFI capabilities intentionally removed. So if someone can hack into a completely offline PAN. Also I kind of wonder why induction palm gloves with a skinlink aren't the hot runner gear of the moment. Since you can subscribe, firewall, and encrypt the thing it seems almost better than a finger print checker. Since if I have a team mate I can you know hand him my gun.
Also someone mentioned you can spoof a hardwired Mac card, and I'm curious how that works.
Kesslan
Jan 18 2007, 06:09 AM
QUOTE (bait) |
QUOTE | And the only way to change that is have the old system surgically removed. |
Thats what chip jacks are for, gee corps got my gun and that id tag is not very useful to me. Time to fry this little puppy and get me a new gun.
|
Chipjacks have nothign what so ever to do with biometric safeties. The biometric part comes from things such as fingerprint ID, DNA etc. Though arguably with a little additinoal work and cost you could wire it on through to search for a chip in a chipjack. That isnt however, how the basic system works. Which means you'd have to either modify it yourself to work that way, or have some one else do that for you.
bait
Jan 18 2007, 06:15 AM
QUOTE (Kesslan) |
QUOTE (bait @ Jan 17 2007, 09:14 PM) | QUOTE | And the only way to change that is have the old system surgically removed. |
Thats what chip jacks are for, gee corps got my gun and that id tag is not very useful to me. Time to fry this little puppy and get me a new gun.
|
Chipjacks have nothign what so ever to do with biometric safeties. The biometric part comes from things such as fingerprint ID, DNA etc. Though arguably with a little additinoal work and cost you could wire it on through to search for a chip in a chipjack. That isnt however, how the basic system works. Which means you'd have to either modify it yourself to work that way, or have some one else do that for you.
|
Here's an idea, force the external device to load the biometric key from a chipjack and force the external device to purge the key when its powered down or unlinked from you.
Also relying on a key being a part of the scanner makes it far easier to tamper with, something to really avoid in the security field.
Moto42 Again
Jan 18 2007, 10:23 AM
It's probably cheaper (and easier) to have the "biometric" subscribe to the user's PAN and and check the serial number of a bit of tech known to be installed in him. (If no cyber is installed in the purchaser an RFID can be slapped into your arm/clothes and it checks for that.)
This is probably how 90% of the off-the-shelf biometric safeties function.
More advanced models that actually check the user's palm-print, DNA, Voiceprint, Retna, or shoe-size suffer from the fact that they actually need gizmos in the weapon to scan this information, thus the price skyrockets and the room for other cool stuff sinks.
The "Check for an RFID" model solves the problem of losing the weapon and the 'Star suddenly having data that links your meat to the crime. Lose the gun, yank the chip and your good!
--------------------
"Please present left eye to barrel for ID Verification" -Biometric enabled Predator
Kesslan
Jan 18 2007, 10:37 AM
Yeah well that may well be how it works in 2070. We dont have the SR4 version of the biometic safety yet. Just the SR3 version which does infact work on a hard coded (into the gun) bit of info. Be it fingerprints, or the hard coded ID of your smartlink ware.
The problem with making the gun so that it wipes this info is, it makes the safety useless at that point. Since once the data is none existant, either anyone can pick up the gun and fire it. Or it's a useless hunk of metal till some one witht he right skills 'resets' it to accept a new user.
SR4 offers alot more options however along those lines. Also the other thing to keep in mind is. The whole idea of the Biometic safety was that it was something that could be used by anyone. Just like a gun can be. Which is why it typically used fingerprints or some such crap like that.
Either way you'd definately I think would want it to be a hard coded system. The idea of running it through a 'key' in a chipjack (Hell now that datajacks ARE chipjacks iin SR4 a datajack will do) works. Since afterall you loose the gun. NO big deal. Not more than usual to tie you to it. Wipe the chip and there you go. Need to change the code? Well then you need both the gun, and a proper coded ID chip. And probably require some sort of BIOS like password to get around recoding the gun.
You could still bypass that say.. like you can bypass a computers BIOS password now (Via a jumper setting which wipes it all) but to do that you'd have to phsyically open the gun etc. Which isnt somethign you can do in a matter of seconds. Which is all tha treally matters.
kigmatzomat
Jan 18 2007, 02:43 PM
House rule here but we have "clothlink" clothing. Adds about 50Y to each item/outfit but it incorporates a fine wire mesh that allows skinlinked items in pockets, on belts, held in gloves, etc to still maintain a skinlink connection. The mesh is really sparse, we're talking about one thread in ten has wires incorporated so there's no disadvantage to being shot with a taser or electricity spell, since we figured the fabric needed very little wire to equal the electrical electrical properties of flesh.
Rotbart van Dainig
Jan 18 2007, 02:46 PM
Skinlink works for 'touch range'.
IRL, there are claims that the field modulations can be used up to 3 meters.
So, basically, if you carry it, it should be fine.
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