Is there any table (that I may have missed) stating how much specific vehicle types can generally hold? Are there any rules for that? Or is it just pretty much a "keep it reasonable" kind of thing? There's nothing in the SR4 BBB vehicle descriptions that mentions cargo space.
The reason I ask is because of the rigger in my group. He's, of course, the team's driver. Which means he transports the team everywhere they go in his Bulldog Step-Van. But he also carries his drones in the van. I don't think he should be able to do this, considering that the team includes a troll, and he owns two Dalmatians (plus more drones).
However, I also want to be fair about it, and preferably find some rules stating how much cargo space a van has. Do such rules exist?
Full Version: Vehicle Cargo Space
It's up to the GM to 'keep it resonable', like you cant throw 3 people on a Suzuki Mirage and expect to drive normally, or fit a few PAC in your 2 seater racecar.
Sure, grab a Rigger 1/2/3 appropriate to your edition and check the "cargo factor" (CF) entry. IIRC R3 had CF for drones listed.
Now if you're using SR4 you can use the above CF factors for the cargo vehicle but you'll have to come up with the CF required by drones since the SR4 drones are generally much smaller than in previous editions.
Now if you're using SR4 you can use the above CF factors for the cargo vehicle but you'll have to come up with the CF required by drones since the SR4 drones are generally much smaller than in previous editions.
Or you could always do something quick and dirty like add up all the body ratings of passengers and drones and if they are less than or equal to the body of the vehicle then it is fine.
You could even allow more (within reason) and start slapping acceleration and max speed penalties.
You could even allow more (within reason) and start slapping acceleration and max speed penalties.
If you have Rigger 3 Revised, then use the cargo factors. I believe each CF wound up being about a 1/2 meter square.
Otherwise, use everyday vehicles as a benchmark.
Otherwise, use everyday vehicles as a benchmark.
Rigger 3 (the only rigger I have) had CF and load. each cf is a .5x.5x.5 meter cube, so 8 CF is 1 cubic meter. And load is the weight it could carry in kg. I'm not really sure how to keep passengers and drones in line with CF but Load is easy enough.
A bulldog had 50 CF and 950 Load for the armored version.
A bulldog had 50 CF and 950 Load for the armored version.
Most of the problem is that I don't know what size the cargo is. I can imagine what the van is like, but the drones, I really have no idea.
I was considering doing something based on the sizes listed for the drones. Some are listed as small, some medium, and some large. I'm sure a generic format of that sort could be applied to pretty much everything in the world. I guess kind of like D&D. The problem would be determining what is meant by small, medium, and large. Is large the size of a horse? Is large the size of a large dog (since the Dalmatian is listed as large, and it's named after a decently sized dog...)?
I might be able to get ahold of Rigger 3 as well... I'll check it out.
I was considering doing something based on the sizes listed for the drones. Some are listed as small, some medium, and some large. I'm sure a generic format of that sort could be applied to pretty much everything in the world. I guess kind of like D&D. The problem would be determining what is meant by small, medium, and large. Is large the size of a horse? Is large the size of a large dog (since the Dalmatian is listed as large, and it's named after a decently sized dog...)?
I might be able to get ahold of Rigger 3 as well... I'll check it out.
I seem to recall reading some sort of size comparison in SR4 but I just can't think of the page reference right now. I know for sure they talk about mini and micro drones. The concealability chart might have small drones on it too.
some of the drones are given more or less specific sizes or size ranges.
for the rest, i personally prefer to guesstimate by comparing them to other vehicles. if it has a similar body/armor to a motorcycle, (keeping in mind purpose of the vehicles as well) then it should not be much larger than a motorcycle at least. on the other hand, something like, say, the steel lynx, is going to be much smaller for it's body/armor ratings than most motorcycles... after all, it's built to take a beating, it had better be tougher for it's size than a non-combat vehicle.
for the rest, i personally prefer to guesstimate by comparing them to other vehicles. if it has a similar body/armor to a motorcycle, (keeping in mind purpose of the vehicles as well) then it should not be much larger than a motorcycle at least. on the other hand, something like, say, the steel lynx, is going to be much smaller for it's body/armor ratings than most motorcycles... after all, it's built to take a beating, it had better be tougher for it's size than a non-combat vehicle.
| QUOTE (Jaid @ Jan 18 2007, 06:52 PM) |
| ...the other hand, something like, say, the steel lynx, is going to be much smaller for it's body/armor ratings than most motorcycles... after all, it's built to take a beating, it had better be tougher for it's size than a non-combat vehicle. |
Am I the only one who assumed the Steel Lynx was actually lynx-sized?
lynx sized? wow, that seems really excessively small.
in point of fact, i am pretty sure the steel lynx looks only slightly more like a lynx in any way, shape, or form than, say, a a car looks like a lynx. by which i mean, the steel lynx is basically a (armored) car where the wheels are on the ends of legs.
like i indicated, my personal opinion is that the steel lynx is probably smaller in volume than a motorcycle. i would guess that, assuming it's set for it's smallest 'surface area', it might take up room roughly similar to card table.
in point of fact, i am pretty sure the steel lynx looks only slightly more like a lynx in any way, shape, or form than, say, a a car looks like a lynx. by which i mean, the steel lynx is basically a (armored) car where the wheels are on the ends of legs.
like i indicated, my personal opinion is that the steel lynx is probably smaller in volume than a motorcycle. i would guess that, assuming it's set for it's smallest 'surface area', it might take up room roughly similar to card table.
| QUOTE (cetiah) |
| Am I the only one who assumed the Steel Lynx was actually lynx-sized? |
Yes.
I imagine dobermans to be physicly similar to dobermans and lynxs to be more similar to the terminator 3 hallway tanks but the size of... I can't think of anything the size I'm thinking... Standing shorter than man height but more massive, stouter.
I also imagine that any drone that isn't a rolling/walking brick to be able to fold itself up a little. Like the drone thing in Mission to Mars, where it curls itself up into something more packable.
Edit: lynx as a tank version of a utility atv.
I also imagine that any drone that isn't a rolling/walking brick to be able to fold itself up a little. Like the drone thing in Mission to Mars, where it curls itself up into something more packable.
Edit: lynx as a tank version of a utility atv.
There's some fluff somewhere that states that the Steel Lynx is aproximately the size of a 'small coffee table'.
Thats still.. kinda iffy but it overall gives you a much better idea. It's why one guy used to call my oen time rigger's Lynxes "Coffee Tables of Death". Course thats also cause I got away with loading in twin linked Ares Alphas (The CF factor in the turret at least allows this) that had grenade link and any other mods i could cram in along with what recoil mods I could add in. So in action those little puppies were NASTY.
I mean I also found it somewhat silly that rigger weapons stated you couldnt put any mods on the guns themselves. But.. wiat. The weapon barrels in many cases stick out of the drone. So... why the hell cant you moutn barrel mods like sound supressors etc? Generally using such arguments I got around that rule to an extent. Pretty much if it was a mod that erally took up no space (Such as a grenade link addon to the smartlink) or it was something that modified somethign else to a reasnoable extent (supressors on the ends of the barrels) I managed to get an OK on it.
It did make em abit more powerful. But the Lynx itself stil isnt that hard to knock out. And all the added mods just made it that much more expensive to loose one. Eitehr way what I think SR really needs is some sort of silouette scale system for drones. Like.. Ok Here is a normal 6ft tall human. Here next to him is a doberman, a Strato-9 and a Steel Lynx. By his foot is a micro drone. So on and so forth.
Thats still.. kinda iffy but it overall gives you a much better idea. It's why one guy used to call my oen time rigger's Lynxes "Coffee Tables of Death". Course thats also cause I got away with loading in twin linked Ares Alphas (The CF factor in the turret at least allows this) that had grenade link and any other mods i could cram in along with what recoil mods I could add in. So in action those little puppies were NASTY.
I mean I also found it somewhat silly that rigger weapons stated you couldnt put any mods on the guns themselves. But.. wiat. The weapon barrels in many cases stick out of the drone. So... why the hell cant you moutn barrel mods like sound supressors etc? Generally using such arguments I got around that rule to an extent. Pretty much if it was a mod that erally took up no space (Such as a grenade link addon to the smartlink) or it was something that modified somethign else to a reasnoable extent (supressors on the ends of the barrels) I managed to get an OK on it.
It did make em abit more powerful. But the Lynx itself stil isnt that hard to knock out. And all the added mods just made it that much more expensive to loose one. Eitehr way what I think SR really needs is some sort of silouette scale system for drones. Like.. Ok Here is a normal 6ft tall human. Here next to him is a doberman, a Strato-9 and a Steel Lynx. By his foot is a micro drone. So on and so forth.
Basically all answers on vehicle size are "old-school" and therefore non-canon. The bulldog is a vehicle "between 1,5 t and 2,5 t" IIRC.
If the drones can fit into that depends on the GM - do you want the rigger to be the driver for the team? Itīs not the drones that take up too much space you know.
If the drones can fit into that depends on the GM - do you want the rigger to be the driver for the team? Itīs not the drones that take up too much space you know.
Yeah. Its why I like vehicles that have the bucket seats and such. ONe seat.. fits one person. In that space with the proper rack arrangemetn you could fit 2-3 decent sized drones. A troll will likely take up more space but you still get a rough idea at least.
| QUOTE (Kesslan) |
| I mean I also found it somewhat silly that rigger weapons stated you couldnt put any mods on the guns themselves. |
just curious... was that a rule from previous editions? i don't recall reading it in 4th...
| QUOTE (Jaid) | ||
just curious... was that a rule from previous editions? i don't recall reading it in 4th... |
Yeah that was a 3rd ed rule. I didnt look much into it under 4th, and they still havent come out with the actual 4th ed rigger book. So it may pop up again, though personally, I'd probably go right back to ignoring it when it doesnt make any sense. I mean obviously you wouldnt get the benifit of say.. a recoil pad. But I see no reason why you couldnt take advantage of a gas vent or something.
frankly, i personally see no reason you can't just rename the modifications to something else and keep on using them.
sure, maybe you can't use a shock pad, but you could benefit from a recoil reducing mount, which is game-mechanically identical.
sure, maybe you can't use a shock pad, but you could benefit from a recoil reducing mount, which is game-mechanically identical.
This is a "lo-fi" version of our main content. To view the full version with more information, formatting and images, please click here.