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sunnyside
A good team of runners knows a lot of ways to avoid the law. Unfortunitly I don't see car chases as part of them.

Still there are some very nice cars to pass through the rigger books and anything around today is used and at a fraction of the cost in 2070. And while car chases aren't exactly modeled the best in SR it's still fun to use the toys.

My question is how to actually integrate them in an age of arial drones and the like. Especialy since I don't think it's too hard for LS or others to get clerance to fire. And any car chase with other groups will come under their attention fairly quickly.

Obviously you could do short chases in semi crowded traffic. The drones aren't so accurate that you can safely fire a missle/MMG. Unfortunitly while this would get the runners to somewhere else they're going to have to ditch the car. And if they go for the barrens as soon as they hit the boarder of a Z zone the land shark missles will fly.


So far in brainstorming I've come up with(each assuming your mage is keeping things in the astral off you).

1. quick change cars. You park, change plates, peel off some paint, flip some decals fill in any bullet holes and casually drive out. Or, even better, park the now different looking car under some fake name and pull out with some other vehicle.

2. Situations where LS looks the other way. Just outran the Yaks wheelmen and shot down their persuit drone? Sure LS could engage you with a drone, but they might lose it, and sure they could send one of their Harpies after you and launch a land shark, but that would cost them 3,000 nuyen! In the meantime you just made their job a little easier. That goes double if you're messing with a go gang.

3. Heavy rain/fog. Plenty of both in Seattle. Suddenly stuff has to stay close in order to keep following you. This could also be fun for chasing someone else.

4. little or no gun fire chases on emptyish roads (even in seattle some roads probably open up at 4:30 AM). LS might not find out about it until it's over.

5. Car wars in the barrens

6. play LS as being far overstreached. I mean for some reason they don't mow down the go gangs even in nice neighborhoods (why don't they by the way. Any team of runners on the cheap would be able to half wipe out a go gang). I mean those rotodrones cost 30K each and need a rigger somewhere with gear to run them. I'm given to understand that NYPD has ~38,000 officers but only 16 choppers. Maybe LS is similarly skewed for materiel while dealing with a city like seattle and only moves in rotodrones and the like if you do something like shoot up a cop car or do something that might get on the news.

Meaning if you can quickly outclass the squad cars they just throw their hands up if all you did was mess with some corp that isn't even technically their jurisdiction.

Comments or other ideas?

ChicagosFinest
Underground street racing circuits, and urban smuggleing routes?

n/m I guess those are things that could lead into the car chase.

One request that is so 80's cyber punk... I want to hear about a monster truck chase thorugh seattle. Think you could do that for me??
cetiah

1) I don't see a reason to change decals or your car's looks or whatever. For the same reason that we just arbitrarily assume that people won't really recognise the runners or bug them too much about their lack of RFID transmissions, we similiarly ignore the car. If you don't do this, then driving around in a "hot car" might actually be safer than just walking around. I mean, theoreticaly, why wouldn't all of Seattle at some point have a picture of you and you just show up with a big WANTED sign above you on everyone's AR?

2) I don't know if there's an extensive network of aerial drone activity to monitor traffic. Traffic is already monitored through gridguide. The problem is that your runners aren't on the gridguide, and aren't on any law enforcement survellience network, for some reason. There would simply be no need for drones. Only people with modified vehicles are going to be driving around and those stay pretty close to the barrens. Barrens folk loooove shooting down drones.

3) Even if there is a large surveliience system monitoring gridguide or drones watching traffic, I imagine somewhere, at some point, there's some hacker "challenging the man" and all the little Shadow elements get the benefit of this. Organized Crime might make it a full time hobby making survelience very difficult for Lone Star in all matters at all times.

4) I tend to portray Seattle as having a lot of cover. Criss-crossing tunnels, multi-level freeways, spiraling bypasses, etc.

5) Safehouses can be specifically designed to facilitate a rapid getaway, disguising its entrace.

I love the weather idea, btw.
Eryk the Red
Weather in general tends to get forgotten in RPGs, I notice. The wet weather Seattle is known for does really change things when you think about it. I've been trying to make a point of having weather conditions. (Pre-determined, of course, because if I leave it till the session to decide, I will forget and there will again be no weather.)

My next session will feature Seattle's annual snowstorm.

Tell you what, if you've got a really good driver in a vehicle with good handling, those are the conditions you want to get into a chase in. Anyone chasing you who isn't so great will fly off the road. Dramatically. Off a bridge, perhaps.
sunnyside
Yeah I'm liking the weather thing even more (which I use regularly in my campaigns). Even a light fog, the kind it's sometimes hard to notice, can drop effective visability to under 500 yards. At that distance runners might be able to figure out which drones are following them and pick them off.

@cetiah. Changing paint job and decals etc is in reference to evading a chase where you've got a warded drone in the air following you etc. If they're looking for a red westwind with three bullet holes in trunk with licence plate XY243 that pulled into a garage and a red westwind with three bullet holes in the trank and licence plate AB984 comes out they'll probably be suspicious yes? Whereas a black westwind with no bullet holes and different hubcaps might be able to slip by.


The hacking is a good point. I don't know about the mafia systematically shutting down all the cameras and drones. However it would just be good planning to have the team hacker set some traffic cameras to loop old pictures back to LS or maybe use some pre hacking to be able to get an aerial drone to say they went a different direction. And it's always good to try and use electronic warefare to have fun with their communications.
ChicagosFinest
or even time the traffic lights to avoid collisions with cross traffic, therefore setting up a car wreck for the police.
hobgoblin
underground parking garages wink.gif
cetiah
QUOTE (sunnyside @ Jan 30 2007, 03:06 PM)
@cetiah.  Changing paint job and decals etc is in reference to evading a chase where you've got a warded drone in the air following you etc.  If they're looking for a red westwind with three bullet holes in trunk with licence plate  XY243 that pulled into a garage and a red westwind with three bullet holes in the trank and licence plate AB984 comes out they'll probably be suspicious yes?  Whereas a black westwind with no bullet holes and different hubcaps might be able to slip by.

In my campaigns, most drones monitor wireless transmissions for cars looking for the same vehicle identitifcation numbers on law-enforcement channels. Wireless capability is taken for granted to such a degree that no one would even think to look for someone who wasn't actively transmitting. The drones would probably just look for hidden signals, looking for that same transmission. In addition to being just as effective, this also improves the error ratio (how many westwinds are there with three bullet holes, anyway?), can be used as logged proof for testimony purposes, and most importantly, allows less drones to cover a wider area.

It's dependant on people trusting their technology, which isn't a stretch at all. In fact, imagine if the cop saw someone with the same car, with the same description, waving a similiar pistol, driving the opposite direction and passing them by. His first instinct might be to chase them, but his AR is monitoring the wireless presence of his prey less than half a mile ahead, going down an alley at running-speeds. What does the cop do? I think he'll trust his technology over instincts, personally. He might, if he's well-trained and thinking straight, send a quick command to the drone to investigate the "civilian" car with similiar features just in case... but there isn't much reason to if there's nothing suspicious. Of course, once he realizes he's been fooled, he might send a drone to search for the OTHER wireless transmission from the other car...

...but its nowhere to be found. That signal isn't registering anywhere in all of Seattle.


If the players can get out of range of the sensor (or take out the sensor), they can change their vehicle's identification signal. This assumes of course that the vehicle was specifically made to do just that or that they have a hacker who could do it. Otherwise, lo-jack RDIF chips in the frame will give them away.

It's the government's/corporation's continued reliance on technology and the lack of treating people as individuals with individual choices and perspectives that allow shadowrunners to slip through the cracks of the system.

Just how I run it.
It's playable. It's fun.
sunnyside
I do like the hacking. It works well if LS is stretched thin enough (can't maintain solid aerial survelance), or, I suppose, in your campaigns you might be able to use an overpass or something to hack a similar car and switch VINs. And in any case stuff the blocks aerial cover can't be too uncommon.

Actually that works well if other people are using color changing polymers and all that. Having a car suddenly change colors doesn't mean it isn't the same car, so they'd be inclined to follow the other car unless you have very distinguishing features.

In my campaign people typically trust their technology, but understand that it can be hacked. So just changing a VIN won't be enough, you'd need some other subterfuge. (But hacking the cops com to say the actual target is very close and turning might be enough).
cetiah
QUOTE (sunnyside)
In my campaign people typically trust their technology, but understand that it can be hacked. So just changing a VIN won't be enough, you'd need some other subterfuge. (But hacking the cops com to say the actual target is very close and turning might be enough).

Allowing hacking as the only (or even best) way to win a chase scene is a bad idea, in my opinion. I purposefully tried to arrange my shadowrun world in such a way that the best, most obvious way of getting an edge in a car chase is to get distance away from the other guy. You have to do that first, before anything else will work. (except guns, of course...)
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Eryk the Red)
Weather in general tends to get forgotten in RPGs, I notice. The wet weather Seattle is known for does really change things when you think about it. I've been trying to make a point of having weather conditions. (Pre-determined, of course, because if I leave it till the session to decide, I  will forget and there will again be no weather.)

My next session will feature Seattle's annual snowstorm.

...I already have one in progress. Right now there are several inches on the ground and a very uncharacteristic cold wave has gripped the area. Driving is at a -2 penalty (for everyone) unless you take it very easy.

As to Lonestar/Media traffic monitoring, I have traffic mini cams all over the city particularly along Intercity 5, 405, hwy 520 and other major thoroughfares. There are also numerous traffic watch drones operated by both the Metroplex DOT and the various metroplex media nets. Hell, a car chase is rating points, just look at the popularity of all those "Wild Police Video" shows. In one RL episode, there must have been no less than six choppers following the same chase.
sunnyside
Well you obviously have to somehow break visual contact for any trick to work, and that requires driving skill. Basically before any of those tricks will work, even fog, you have to have already gotten away by 1960's standards. It's just that in 2070 (or even now if they get a chopper on you) it takes a little something after that to really get away.

Changing VIN, plates, and color are mods that have been around since the 2060's so you wouldn't need a hacker, but having one would help, which I think is a good thing..

By the way anybody else have a clever idea how to ditch pursuit in a car? I'm liking this thread so far.
hobgoblin
hmm, if the LS is relying on a drone for pursuit/air cover, how hard would it be to drive behind something, hack the drone, and play around with the sensors to make it seem as if the vehicle is continuing somewhere?
Butterblume
Probably hard, since the drone will most likely be actively rigged during a hot pursuit. Plus, there might be some additional drones, you can't hack all of them simultaneously.
At least that's the way I would deal with hacking reconnaissance drones, use a lot of them if possible and watch out for conflicting data.
sunnyside
QUOTE (ChicagosFinest)
Underground street racing circuits, and urban smuggleing routes?

n/m I guess those are things that could lead into the car chase.

One request that is so 80's cyber punk... I want to hear about a monster truck chase thorugh seattle. Think you could do that for me??

Heh. I suppose I could work the monster truck in somehow. I could see the team messing with someone crazy enough to chase them in a monster truck.

It probably will not end too well for the truck though.

But I like the street racing idea. That would be great for fun stuff during downtime. Where riggers get together at night on the lava flow flats and abandoned roads near hells kitchen and risk life and limb in the hottest cars in the city for pride and the purse.
hobgoblin
QUOTE (Butterblume)
Probably hard, since the drone will most likely be actively rigged during a hot pursuit. Plus, there might be some additional drones, you can't hack all of them simultaneously.
At least that's the way I would deal with hacking reconnaissance drones, use a lot of them if possible and watch out for conflicting data.

i prefer to give the team a chance, if they use their brains and their skills wink.gif

having a single drone would still require them to loose the LS goons on wheels first...
Kyoto Kid
...in the last run I did, the team's hacker got creative and jumped into the Metroplex DOT network to trace a delivery truck involved in a payload heist. Since (as in RL) access to the traffic cams is made available to the media for streaming traffic reports, his presence there stirred little if any attention.

The system can work both ways if you are careful enough.
ShadowDragon8685
Having your hacker hacking a Lone Star drone could be really useful. If you can userp control of it and actively rig it, well...


Imagine the PR disaster if that drone were to pot a LandShark into the third-story window of a downtown residential complex, or an Ares corporate building.


So if Lone Star dosen't want you too bad, I imagine it would be possible to tell them "Back off, and nothing none of us wants won't have to happen. We didn't screw with you, don't screw with us or we'll have to screw back."


Because, no matter what statements Lone Star makes after the fact, the gun-cam images with Lone-Star's logos, and the cam from the car, recording the drone putting a LandShark into a populated building, will be a complete media disaster. Sure, it won't stop them from geeking you, but they'll know that they won't recover from that disaster as easily as they'll recover from letting you go.

Or you could, you know, shoot the patrol cars.
Garrowolf
How about vehicle scale sticky shocks? Or anti vehicle electrolasers? We are getting that tech in the next decade or so. Use it against LS.

Don't try and hack a LS drone - too much security. Hack a fedex fast delivery drone and ram the police drone.

Take highly radar and infared reflective paint and shoot paint balls at the drones. Then jam the drone with a short range jammer in the paint ball.

Fire a grapple line attached to a winch and pull the drone into objects that they could normally dodge.

Fire paint balls with a combination of superglue and thermite at the drone's engine intakes.

Bribe a megacorp security guard ahead of time and drive on to their property. Then drive off out another exit.

Bribe the LS cops chasing you through hacking into their commlinks and negotiating with them.

Take volcanic ash from puyallup and spray it out as smoke out the back of your car. It will gum up their engine and conduct electricity in bad ways.

Spray barrier foam out the back. It will turn into a solid block on thier tires and windshield.

Pay a gang to play tag the drone.

Get play dough, some wires, and an LED counter and stick it to the front of their windsheild. They will really want to focus on that for a while.

Hack into their commlinks to find their house numbers. Call up thier loved ones and tell them they are in a life threatening car chase. They will call the cops up and beg them to stop chasing you and come home. If nothing else it will distract them.

Spray teflon on the ground right before a hard turn.

Hack the dealership and tell them that the police car was stolen. They should engadge the lowjack system.

Hack their gridlink connection and tell it that the turn you are going to make is not available to the police car. It will try to take over to prevent an accident.

Eliminate the police car from the gridlink so cars are not moved out of their way. Or add cars to their gridlink so that they are fighting the car to not dodge things that aren't there.

Change the settings on their commlinks to active and no spam filters.

Replace the pilot program on their car's computer with a driving instructor program.

Keep a laser on their eyes during the pursuit. If they have flare comp it will stay up all the time and make it very hard to see. If they dont ...

Take a radar gun and aim it at the sensors of the police vehicle. It will think that they are about to hit things all the time.

Spray them with CS gas. They won't roll down their windows to shoot at you at least.

Hack into their commlinks and activate VR but hide the icons to get out.

Activate their simsense on their commlinks for just tactile sense and goose them.

Use photovoltaic paint to make yourself look like another police car. Transmit the same VIN and signals as the cop chasing you. Then break contact with the drone for a moment. Spray the cop with paint to cover their decals and tell their system to transmit your VIN. Then slow down suddenly and act like they shot at you. The drone will retaliate.

Hide the police car from gridlink and tell a semi to move into it's space.

Look up the cop who is also in the car. Find some detail in their background that hurt them. Then have an informant from their contact list send an email saying he just found out that the driver did it to him.

How about those ideas?
Kyoto Kid
QUOTE (Garrowolf)
How about vehicle scale sticky shocks? Or anti vehicle electrolasers? We are getting that tech in the next decade or so. Use it against LS

...In Rigger 3 they had an EMP version of the spike strip designed to fry the vehicle's electronics.

QUOTE (Garrowolf)
Get play dough, some wires, and an LED counter and stick it to the front of their windsheild. They will really want to focus on that for a while.

...actually used this once to good effect, not against the Star, but against the PCs.

Also, if you can see them through the windows and you have an enterprising mage, an Orgy spell can work wonders. Power Bolt/Ball spells (or grenades) at the road behind you can mess up the handling of units chasing you. Mana Barriers are excellent against motorcycles.

Aerial drones usually are lightly armoured and have low body attributes. A couple S&S rounds could frotz them enough to get them off your tail. Flashbangs can also be effective (they also work against sensors) The only issue with this is collateral damage if the drone goes out of control and slams into a building or a sidewalk full of pedestrians.

Messing with any Star unit (Drone, Car, Commlink, etc) or the Grid Guide is up there on the extreme scale for most hackers. Not advisable.

Garrowolf
well I actually don't think that the cop's commlinks will be all that high. The car could be higher. The drone will be high. The gridlink is moderate. If you don't have a hacker that can handle at least rating 5 stuff anyway then those ideas wont work. I think the others are quite amusing though.
hobgoblin
QUOTE
How about vehicle scale sticky shocks?


also known as jabberwocky? some real nasties those wink.gif
cetiah

I had some thoughts on Lone Star's priorities that might be relavent to this discussion. I put it in the general SR forum in this thread.
ShadowDragon8685
QUOTE
Change the settings on their commlinks to active and no spam filters.


Of all the ideas here, I think this is possibly the one that comes closest to torture. That's just evil. smile.gif
mrlost
Just played through a rather scary chase last session, while jumped into my Bulldog Van which was our teams getaway vehicle, being hounded by two heavily armed Aerodynes while trying to escape an arcology that we'd sabotaged with a bunch of smuggled in explosives and flee into the barrens. Wasn't pretty, I almost got slagged twice, and hacking device rating 7 miltech wasn't easy either.

Had to use the NYC arcology's architecture to help evade the Aerodynes, while fending off an Lone Star hacker attempts to spoof my system, and disrupt the Aerodyne's Assault Cannons (at least I hope those were ACs), after I exploited their system all the while avoiding their shots.

My van got totaled when I tore through a mall, and tried driving up an escalator doing sixty (which collapsed) damn fun though! We barely got away from the Corp security. Fun! Now I've got to figure out what to do with my share of the payment, and see about acquiring a new ride, and some more drones while we lay low for awhile.

At least Mr. Johnston didn't screw us.
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